30 days in Thailand without visa only 2 times a year? Can someone clarify?

[sreiter]

Hi guys- I just returned from Thailand to Europe. I visited my wife for about 60 days, got 30 days on arrival in the aiport and another 30 days after a weeks stay in Laos. I am planning to go back this summer for another two month.

Yes, I could get a visa, but that has become more cumbersome. As the option to get a visa per post office has gone it is required to deliver and pick up the passport in person- the next consulate is hundrets of kilometers away- I only know of once place where you could get the visa in a day....

Anyway--I have meanwhile found in this forum that supposedly you now only get 2 times a year a 30 day stay in Thailand without visa. It is not clear to me what exactly this means. As I had 2 times 30 days this year, would I be refused entry? Or is it 30 days arriving at a land crossing that is restricted to two times? If yes, would that mean I have the chance to go again and get another 30 days coming back from Laos, so 60 days all together?

It looks like a good idea to get a new passport, the current one is valid for less than a year now (1 year visa impossible)- would a clean passport change things? Thanks in advance for replies! Cheerio  Stefan

[bkk6060]

13 minutes ago, sreiter said:

It looks like a good idea to get a new passport, the current one is valid for less than a year now (1 year visa impossible)- would a clean passport change things? Thanks in advance for replies! Cheerio  Stefan

They may warn/flag you after 6 entries by air.

 

A new passport for what? 

Immigration has what is called a computer system with your records in it.

So, what do you think?

[ubonjoe]

Visa exempt entries by air have no written limit.

Visa exempt entries at land border crossings are limited to 2 per calendar year.

[BritTim]

What is your nationality?

 

If your passport only has about a year of validity left, it is about time to replace it. Travel can become difficult if the remaining validity is only a few months.

 

It is worth double checking that visa applications by mail is definitely gone. This has sometimes been announced and then rescinded.

 

It is far better for those visiting Thailand regularly to get into the habit of using visas rather than entering visa exempt. While there are no official limits on use of visa exempt entries by air, in practice, airport immigration often has its own unpublished rules that can lead to denied entry and a lot of drama. The more previous visa exempt entries you have, the more likely this is to happen.

[sreiter]

Thank you, guys, that clarifies a lot. To comment on a few things:

I am German. My passport has only 11 month left, I travel a lot. As I am in Germany just now a new passport makes sense as it is easy to obtain NOW, I also live outside of Germany in Europe for  the majority of the year.

I had numerous multiple entry non O visa in the past, arriving in Thailand without is not a habit.

I recently had a brief look at my immigration record in the computer when I was in the Bung Khan immigration office. The record did not seem to be complete at all (as far as I could tell).

I thought there might have been a possibility that the immigration officers at the airport are more focussed on the stamps in the passport rather than reading the immigration record.

I got my last non O visa about two or three years ago in Germany. At that time it was not possible any more to obtain a visa per mail- if this has changed in the meantime is easy enough to find out. Of course a change would be very welcome. Having to be in a consulate or embassy in person twice just adds a lot of cost and time to the process if you not happen to live near by.

[BritTim]

41 minutes ago, sreiter said:

Thank you, guys, that clarifies a lot. To comment on a few things:

I am German. My passport has only 11 month left, I travel a lot. As I am in Germany just now a new passport makes sense as it is easy to obtain NOW, I also live outside of Germany in Europe for  the majority of the year.

I had numerous multiple entry non O visa in the past, arriving in Thailand without is not a habit.

I recently had a brief look at my immigration record in the computer when I was in the Bung Khan immigration office. The record did not seem to be complete at all (as far as I could tell).

I thought there might have been a possibility that the immigration officers at the airport are more focussed on the stamps in the passport rather than reading the immigration record.

I got my last non O visa about two or three years ago in Germany. At that time it was not possible any more to obtain a visa per mail- if this has changed in the meantime is easy enough to find out. Of course a change would be very welcome. Having to be in a consulate or embassy in person twice just adds a lot of cost and time to the process if you not happen to live near by.

According to the embassy website, you can apply for a tourist visa by mail.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

They may warn/flag you after 6 entries by air.

 

A new passport for what? 

Immigration has what is called a computer system with your records in it.

So, what do you think?

Many reports indicate that IOs do not always "drill down" into a visitor's past-stay history - but almost always closely examine each used-page in a passport.  Those with many stamps/stickers for Thailand - even if the entries are spaced apart - may convey an "impression" on an IO who dislikes foreigners "in his country" generally, that this person "comes to Thailand too much." 

 

4 hours ago, sreiter said:

I thought there might have been a possibility that the immigration officers at the airport are more focussed on the stamps in the passport rather than reading the immigration record.

Exactly.  Not a guarantee, but helps.  

But, be aware they are more likely to dig through your history if an "alert" pops up, indicating you have more than 6 Visa Exempt entries since 2015 (when they started counting them).  This does not reset.

 

Since you can come in on a Non-O Visa, this is definitely the best choice.  It also avoids the possibility an IO will decide to deny your entry, even with a Tourist Visa, using a rejected-entry based on a lie, which has been reported many times (they reject claiming you don't have the money for your stay, even if you do). 

 

For now, we do not have reports of IOs issuing rejected-entry on lies stamps, to those entering with Non-O Visas.  Still, I would always have a copy of your Marriage Certificate and a Kor Ror 2 (amphoe document showing you are still married), just in case. 

[chrisinth]

Is it not possible for you to get a one year multi entry non-o visa based on being married to a Thai? I know you only plan to visit twice a year, but obtaining a 1 year multi entry takes away a lot of the stress regarding visa matters. Reduces contact with the embassies/consulates as well unless you are going the visa exempt route.

[BritTim]

38 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Since you can come in on a Non-O Visa, this is definitely the best choice.  It also avoids the possibility an IO will decide to deny your entry, even with a Tourist Visa, using a rejected-entry based on a lie, which has been reported many times (they reject claiming you don't have the money for your stay, even if you do). 

  

 For now, we do not have reports of IOs issuing rejected-entry on lies stamps, to those entering with Non-O Visas.  Still, I would always have a copy of your Marriage Certificate and a Kor Ror 2 (amphoe document showing you are still married), just in case. 

 

3 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Is it not possible for you to get a one year multi entry non-o visa based on being married to a Thai? I know you only plan to visit twice a year, but obtaining a 1 year multi entry takes away a lot of the stress regarding visa matters. Reduces contact with the embassies/consulates as well unless you are going the visa exempt route.

A Non O visa would obviously be ideal. However, the OP is understandably reluctant to make two trips to Berlin to make that happen. It appears that a tourist visa is possible by mail, but applications for a Non O visa must be made in person. From what the OP has posted, I would not risk a visa exempt entry, but a tourist visa, especially in a new passport, would not be that risky.

[ubonjoe]

46 minutes ago, BritTim said:

A Non O visa would obviously be ideal. However, the OP is understandably reluctant to make two trips to Berlin to make that happen.

There are more options to get the non-o visa than Berlin.

The official consulate in Frankfurt is an option plus some honorary consulates. Info for Frankfurt and list of honorary consulates is here.

https://www.thaigeneralkonsulat.de/de/visaangelegenheiten.html

[KhaoYai]

As has been pointed out - a new passport is a complete waste of time. As soon as your passport is scanned into immigration's computer, all your entries and departures on all passports come up on the screen.

 

I asked a question about mulitple entries on here recently and also had a word with an immigration officer at Suvarnabhumi airport when I left a couple of weeks ago. Although there is no official limit on entries at airports, from what he told me it was clear what they are looking for - and that is people doing border runs and effectively 'living in Thailand' without the correct visa.  He took a look at my entries which are mostly on a METV these days and said I was OK because I was leaving for several weeks at a time (normally 8).

 

However, when I was married I was warned that I should have a Non O based on that marriage. I was quite clearly told that if I tried to enter again without a Non O, I would be refused. If you tell them you are entering to visit your wife, you are not seen as a tourist and should have the correct visa.

[KhaoYai]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

According to the embassy website, you can apply for a tourist visa by mail.

He should not be entering on a tourist visa when he is married to a Thai national. If he's had a Non O based on marriage or mentioned that he's married to a Thai before - that will be noted on the system.

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

He should not be entering on a tourist visa when he is married to a Thai national. If he's had a Non O based on marriage or mentioned that he's married to a Thai before - that will be noted on the system.

On the inbound immi form I always put wife as reason to visit and where will I stay.  On average 10 visa exempt per year since 2015 so I guess about 45 all up so far.  Never had a problem but never stayed 30 days either. Usually 12-14.

[aspenbkk]

i come and go from thailand 5 or 6 times a year for 30 days or 5 weeks approx each time i am there , now after 2 entries for 30 days i am pulled aside on the 3rd entry and i have not had a problem yet or been refused entry. but i asked at immigration on the way out a year ago and they told me go get a visa i argued why you give me 30 days automatically but the response is only go get a visa always . so i go and get a 90 day visa even though i stay for only 5 weeks they want money going into their economy with visa fees , so my advice is after 2 visits get a visa i wont take the chance in case turned away at immigration but thats how it is for me .

[Davo369]

It states on thai embassy in London 

[KhaoYai]

8 hours ago, emptypockets said:

On the inbound immi form I always put wife as reason to visit and where will I stay.  On average 10 visa exempt per year since 2015 so I guess about 45 all up so far.  Never had a problem but never stayed 30 days either. Usually 12-14.

It doesn't really matter whether you've had a problem or not - consider yourself and the hundreds or thousands of others that haven't had a problem, lucky.  I didn't renew my Non O because I saw it as an unnecessary expense when I was only staying 2 weeks at a time. I then made a few visa exempt entries and on the last one I was told that if I was visiting my wife, I must get a visa - I would not be allowed to enter again without one.  Exactly the same thing happened to a mate last year and it could happen to you on your next entry.

 

Granted, they warned me, they didn't refuse entry but that might not always be the case. The correct visa is easy to get and as of April a 12 month Non O based on marriage costs £150 at the Thai Embassy in London. A wasted flight because of denied entry is around £450 + a potential new ticket home + a pissed off wife.

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, Davo369 said:

It states on thai embassy in London 

That is out of date by over 10 years. And is not even written correctly for the rescinded 90 days in 6 months rule. Also the 2 visa exempt  entries at land border crossings is not precisely correct. It is 2 entries per calendar year as written.

 

[TigerandDog]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 8:44 PM, ubonjoe said:

Visa exempt entries by air have no written limit.

Visa exempt entries at land border crossings are limited to 2 per calendar year.

Sorry to correct you Joe, but Visa Exempt entries by air ( 30 day visa on entry ) are restricted to 4 per calendar year. I have previously posted links advising of this revised regulation.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Sorry to correct you Joe, but Visa Exempt entries by air ( 30 day visa on entry ) are restricted to 4 per calendar year. I have previously posted links advising of this revised regulation.

Whatever you posted wouldn't be anything official since it does not exist.

[KhaoYai]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is out of date by over 10 years.

As are many things on the London website.

[deepah92]

17 hours ago, aspenbkk said:

i come and go from thailand 5 or 6 times a year for 30 days or 5 weeks approx each time i am there , now after 2 entries for 30 days i am pulled aside on the 3rd entry and i have not had a problem yet or been refused entry. but i asked at immigration on the way out a year ago and they told me go get a visa i argued why you give me 30 days automatically but the response is only go get a visa always . so i go and get a 90 day visa even though i stay for only 5 weeks they want money going into their economy with visa fees , so my advice is after 2 visits get a visa i wont take the chance in case turned away at immigration but thats how it is for me .

had similar experience last year on my 4th entry of 2018 IO started to ask me why i come and go like that even if it's always with a 6/8weeks delay between each stay, finally let me in after checkin return flight and tellin me to get a visa.

Funny point is that when i told him i just visit my gf in bkk, he answered me "how many gf do you have" LOL . Then i came back after 6 weeks away and on my 5th entry IO just stamped my passeport without even a word lol, so i guess it really depends on who you are fallin in front of .. Since I have started coming with tourist visa but the thing is that what is stated on the french thai embassy is that you must submit an application for a tourist visa only after a 3 month period out of the country..