Buying an established business does it come with Chanote?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, blackcab said:

Buildings used for commercial purposes can have house books. It depends on how they were initially registered at the district office.

Very good info, I hadn't thought of that. So I've just learnt that the tabian baan is actually not exclusively tied to a physical baan, it can be a shop or a commercial plot.

[ThomasThBKK]

2 minutes ago, tcp7 said:

Looks like you've covered yourself and done things the right way, hence why I would like to have legalized documentations at the land office to protect our upcoming business.

 

Find something for a longterm lease then. Over 3 year has to be registered at land office.

 

Problem is you have to pay upfront usually for all the years, and there's also some transfer tax.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Find something for a longterm lease then. Over 3 year has to be registered at land office.

 

Problem is you have to pay upfront usually for all the years, and there's also some transfer tax.

We'll look into it but the other aspect is, my wife isn't very educated, her skillset are somewhat limited, it's either cooking or laundry.

 

Although she has 3 years of experience as running a restaurant 40km south of Pattaya and she has been very succesful, she would love to relocate to Pattaya, she says that's where the real money is, while on my end I would love to "offer" her a restaurant, anything with 4 tables which can accomodate 8 to 10 customers tops at a time is perfect for her. These criteria limit our options.

 

And what I meant by "offer her a restaurant" is actually truly offer her the building and the land it is sitting on.

 

Though times.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Guest

[ThomasThBKK]

We'll look into it but the other aspect is, my wife isn't very educated, her skillset are somewhat limited, it's either cooking or laundry.
 
Although she has 3 years of experience as running a restaurant 40km south of Pattaya and she has been very succesful, she would love to relocate to Pattaya, she says that's where the real money is, while on my end I would love to "offer" her a restaurant, anything with 4 tables which can accomodate 8 to 10 customers tops at a time is perfect for her. These criteria limit our options.
 
And what I meant by "offer her a restaurant" is actually truly offer her the building and the land it is sitting on.
 
Though times.

Imho best to find a small piece of land and outright buy that. Restaurants structure shouldn't be hard/expensive to errect...

Land ownership itself won't lose much value and is resellable easily, leases are hard to sell...


Biggest problem is that small plots of land at a mainroad are hard to find or are mostly way more expensive per sqm than buying a bigger piece... I have no idea of pattaya in that respect

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[scorecard]

And never forget 'location, location, location'.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, scorecard said:

And never forget 'location, location, location'.

Indeed.

 

29 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Imho best to find a small piece of land and outright buy that. Restaurants structure shouldn't be hard/expensive to errect...

Biggest problem is that small plots of land at a mainroad are hard to find or are mostly way more expensive per sqm than buying a bigger piece...

No land is either for sale or affordable near Walking Street, Soi 6, Soi Buakhao or Soi sipchet.

 

[BestB]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Really? I know many businesses that have been forced to close by the landlord increasing the rent after the first three years, or copycat businesses opening up next door. And I'm sure it has happened to many more that I dont know of.

as i clearly said not renewing the lease is not the same as throwing you out and taking your biz.

Rent increases are natural economics, not too sure why anyone would expect to pay the same rent after 9 or 10 or 12  years later

[BestB]

1 hour ago, tcp7 said:

We'll look into it but the other aspect is, my wife isn't very educated, her skillset are somewhat limited, it's either cooking or laundry.

 

Although she has 3 years of experience as running a restaurant 40km south of Pattaya and she has been very succesful, she would love to relocate to Pattaya, she says that's where the real money is, while on my end I would love to "offer" her a restaurant, anything with 4 tables which can accomodate 8 to 10 customers tops at a time is perfect for her. These criteria limit our options.

 

And what I meant by "offer her a restaurant" is actually truly offer her the building and the land it is sitting on.

 

Though times.

Its funny, but many foreigners believe location, location, location and by that they usually mean tourist areas with high foot traffic, but that is very wrong way of thinking for 2 reasons

 

1. You limiting your market to tourists only which is very seasonal

2. You up for big bucks to either rent or to buy.

 

You see many small eateries in the back streets catering to locals who do extremely well. Business does not rely on tourists, locals eat on daily basis and continue to do so all year round.

 

Being away from touristy zone you save lots on rent/purchase price and most of your customers are repeat customers,

 

Got one of those small shops right next to my biz, away from tourists, she pays only 15000 rent and does 5000-7000 in sales daily. Put it in perspective, thats 150000-200000 per month, she is only open 5am-midday. If she was to stay open all day through the night, could easily double the sales, but she is studying.

 

Point is , its not always about location, but who your market is and your pricing.

 

Just like gentleman clubs, many are tucked away in the middle of nowhere and these are the ones that do well, while ones in prime locations go out of business

 

Camel toe is a perfect example, try to find it and you will struggle, yet the place is always busy.His rent is laughable in comparison to other places in "good" locations

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

Camel toe is a perfect example, try to find it and you will struggle, yet the place is always busy.His rent is laughable in comparison to other places in "good" locations

Hah! Guess what? My house is right next to the Camel Toe.

 

Idiots are building a condo building right next to it though, thus blocking the morning to midday line of sight with the sun, putting in jeopardy my plans to go solar on the roof of my house. A true pita.

 

So yeah I know where the Camel Toe is in Suksabai Villa and I have to agree, the location is a dump.

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, BestB said:

Rent increases are natural economics, not too sure why anyone would expect to pay the same rent after 9 or 10 or 12  years later

Who is talking about 9 or 12 years? I am talking about what happens after the first 3 years, and I have seen it happen many times. And there is nothing "natural" about the rent doubling after three years if the business is successful, only to drop back to the previous starting rate if the business owner leaves.

Many landlords here are grasping and dishonest, and stupid.

[BestB]

3 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Who is talking about 9 or 12 years? I am talking about what happens after the first 3 years, and I have seen it happen many times. And there is nothing "natural" about the rent doubling after three years if the business is successful, only to drop back to the previous starting rate if the business owner leaves.

Many landlords here are grasping and dishonest, and stupid.

In my personal opinion only a complete moron would sign a 3 year lease for starting a business. At the very least 3 x 3 x 3 all signed on the first date, so no one can charge more after first 3.

 

I also did not say natural to double after 3 years, but after 10-12 years, however having some increases every 3 is fairly common.

 

It all boils down to how you set up the rental agreement, and if one is stupid enough not to set out clear conditions and some form of protection, no need to blame the landlords for taking advantage of it.

 

You keep making claims you have seen it, but the truth is you have not seen anything. You have heard from someone their side of the story, which does not mean it was true story or full story, that is of course not to say it does not happen, landlord raising rents at the end of rental term

[KittenKong]

40 minutes ago, BestB said:

In my personal opinion only a complete moron would sign a 3 year lease for starting a business. At the very least 3 x 3 x 3 all signed on the first date, so no one can charge more after first 3.

Hmm. I would say that only a complete moron would take out a 9-year lease for a new business. Many seem to fail here within a year, and being tied into paying rent for 2 more years would be more than enough for me. To have to pay it for 7 more years could be a serious problem.

 

42 minutes ago, BestB said:

I also did not say natural to double after 3 years, but after 10-12 years, however having some increases every 3 is fairly common.

Rental prices in my condo building - and in many others here - have dropped over the last 5 years. Given the large number of empty commercial properties around here I cant imagine that the situation is much different with those.

I think that many landlords here just try it on because they are short-sighted and greedy.

[BestB]

32 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Hmm. I would say that only a complete moron would take out a 9-year lease for a new business. Many seem to fail here within a year, and being tied into paying rent for 2 more years would be more than enough for me. To have to pay it for 7 more years could be a serious problem.

 

Rental prices in my condo building - and in many others here - have dropped over the last 5 years. Given the large number of empty commercial properties around here I cant imagine that the situation is much different with those.

I think that many landlords here just try it on because they are short-sighted and greedy.

So fairly obvious not only you have never has a business here but have hardly any knowledge on how business rental agreements work. 

 

9 year lease is a rolling 3 x3x3 years lease where at the end of each 3 you can break away.

 

if you had any business sense or knowledge you would know for any business to really start showing results takes 3-5 years. Why on earth anyone would open a biz with 1-3 year lease is beyond me.

 

i am also sorry to say but thai rental market and prices does not evolve around your condo 

[Kwasaki]

12 hours ago, tcp7 said:

but my questions are more or less "generic":

 

- Do businesses for sale/buy actually come with a Chanote like a residential property?

My Question would be is why do they want to sell.

 

You have been told 'no' it's leasehold and doubt very whether anyone could buy a market place position.

  

[ThomasThBKK]

No land is either for sale or affordable near Walking Street, Soi 6, Soi Buakhao or Soi sipchet.
 

I wouldn't buy anywhere there if those are tourist areas, she runs a thai restaurant i suppose. So cater to thai workers and thai families.


Just a fun project in bkk we have:

15k rent at outdoor food court (these landlords are usually safe).
Managed by a student, setup cost around 350k thb, selling healthy beverages.

Location next to thai office towers, so heavy foot traffic before work, during lunch and breaks till around 5 pm. Sure some farrang work there too but the point is, focus on daily constant sales instead of peaks in high season where u need to hire and train people just to kick them later in low season.

Works fine so far.


Same same bastb said basically.

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[Guest]

9 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

I wouldn't buy anywhere there if those are tourist areas, she runs a thai restaurant i suppose. So cater to thai workers and thai families.

Correct, she cooks only Thai food and 100% her customer base is Thai. She has no intents whatsoever in doing "farang" food.

 

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

20 hours ago, KittenKong said:

The real money here is in renting out business properties that have been family owned for a long time, not in running businesses in rented properties.

The real money here already belongs to the ultra-wealthy families that control the economy and receive most of the income it generates. Thailand has the world's most extreme wealth inequality, and it is still getting more equal every year. If you want money, choose your birth parents carefully.

[KittenKong]

52 minutes ago, MiNombreEsFicticious said:

The real money here already belongs to the ultra-wealthy families that control the economy and receive most of the income it generates.

Indeed, but they are a very small group.

[Guest]

Yeah it's like 0.1% of the country controlling the other 99.9%.

 

As an example, if I recalled correctly, 7-11 Eleven brand is owned by CP. True and all it's subsidiaries that includes True Move, True Online, True TV, True Money, True Whatever are also owned by CP.

 

And who runs the CP you may ask? Someone that should not/cannot be named due to the forums policy. It's a touchy subject but we all know who I'm referring to. Read between the lines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charoen_Pokphand

Edited May 12, 2019 by Guest