Germany designates BDS Israel boycott movement as anti-Semitic

[sanemax]

Just now, bristolboy said:

Have you got race on the brain? It's like that old joke that goes ask an alcoholic what 1 plus 1 is and he answers is 2 bottles of beer. When have I mentioned race in any of my comments?

Well , Western Europe and the USA are in one racial group and China , Zimbabwe , Myanmar are in another racial group .

  OK , why does it matter as to whether a Country is from Western Europe and/or an ally of the USA ?

[sanemax]

26 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But none of those nations are considered close allies of the United States and Western Europe, are they? None of them have benefited from preferential treatment the the way Israel has been treated. And it's a pretty weak justification for Israel's disgraceful treatment of the Palestinians to say it could be worse.

So, The treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis would be acceptable to you if the Israelis were Chinese and not a Country allied to the USA and Europe  ?

  So, its not the treatment of the Palestinians thats the issue , its Israels affiliation with the USA/E.U thats the issue ?

  If it were the Chinese there in Israel , there wouldnt be any issues ?

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Well , Western Europe and the USA are in one racial group and China , Zimbabwe , Myanmar are in another racial group .

  OK , why does it matter as to whether a Country is from Western Europe and/or an ally of the USA ?

Still banging on about race, are you?

And your 2nd question seems to reflect some sort of confusion on your part. The fact is that the US and to a lesser extent Western Europe have greatly favored Israel despite it's unjust treatment of the Palestinians. They have not shown favoritism at all towards China, Zimbabwe and Myanmar and have in fact roundly condemned those nations repeatedly and imposed economic penalties on Myanmar and Zimbabwe. Are you aware that Trump has imposed economic sanctions on Zimbabwe? In fact, if race were a factor in U.S. policy, you could make a better case that it's biased against nonwhite people since all 3 of those nations have felt the USA's economic disapproval.  You'll note I wrote "better" not good. Because it wouldn't be a good case at all.

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

So, The treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis would be acceptable to you if the Israelis were Chinese and not a Country allied to the USA and Europe  ?

  So, its not the treatment of the Palestinians thats the issue , its Israels affiliation with the USA/E.U thats the issue ?

  If it were the Chinese there in Israel , there wouldnt be any issues ?

You seem to be completely incoherent in your arguments. Please quote me something of what I wrote that leads you to make such an inference?

[sanemax]

Just now, bristolboy said:

You seem to be completely incoherent in your arguments. Please quote me something of what I wrote that leads you to make such an inference?

It was on the post that I replied to .

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

It was on the post that I replied to .

If I had equated Israel's behavior with theirs  or said that they shouldn't be condemned for it, you might have a point. But I didn't. And as I pointed out to you, and you have no good answer for this, these nations have been condemned repeatedly. And not just been condemned, but actually punished via economic sanctions for their behavior in the case of Zimbabwe and Myanmar. Although it does show how race obsessed you are that in the case of Zimbabwe you cited the mistreatment of white farmers, but not the vastly greater number of Zimbabwians who suffered at the hands of the Mugabe regime.,

[sanemax]

Just now, bristolboy said:

If I had equated Israel's behavior with theirs  or said that they shouldn't be condemned for it, you might have a point. But I didn't. And as I pointed out to you, and you have no good answer for this, these nations have been condemned repeatedly. And not just been condemned, but actually punished via economic sanctions for their behavior in the case of Zimbabwe and Myanmar. Although it does show how race obsessed you are that in the case of Zimbabwe you cited the mistreatment of white farmers, but not the vastly greater number of Zimbabwians who suffered at the hands of the Mugabe regime.,

OK, so why havent the BDS supporters also campaigned to boycott Chinese goods ?

For the reason of Chinas treatment of the Tibetans on Uigars ?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

OK, so why havent the BDS supporters also campaigned to boycott Chinese goods ?

For the reason of Chinas treatment of the Tibetans on Uigars ?

I don't think BDS people are capable of answering that one.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

OK, China , they treat their Tibetan/Uigar minorities much worse then Israel treats the Palestinians .

   I am sure that most people are aware of the plight of the Tibetans , land annexed , culture destroyed , Tibet being settled in by Han Chinese from other parts of China , its Religious leaders being replaced by Chinese impostors , the Chinese treatment of Tibetans is much worse then Israelis treat Palestinians .

   The same could be said of numerous other Countries and minorities  , white farmers in Zimbabwe , Marsh Arabs/Kurds in Arabia , Rohinyga in Myanmar , even the Dalit low caste in India .

   Numerous peoples get treated worse than the Palestinians .

Where are the movements to boycott China , Myanmar , Zimbabwe ect ?

Why do BDS supporters only boycott Israel ? 

Is it just a coincidence that Israel is a Jewish nation or do they support BDS BECAUSE Israel is a Jewish Nation ? ?

 

First you insist the topic is about Germany, now you bring in China and a bunch of other countries. Which is it?

 

But anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not denying the existence of antisemitism, or that it is often incorporated into criticism of Israel. I'm just saying it's not always the case, and that not all outfits criticizing and condemning Israel are necessarily antisemitic.

 

People support movements for many reasons. Why they prefer this one over the other can be attributed to many reasons. There's certainly an antisemitic strain in many a BDS related statement formations of ideology or commentary on events. But since it's not a super-centralized movement, and it incorporates many smaller organizations, I'm weary of labeling all of it and all those associated with it in this manner.

 

Criticism of Israel is often exaggerated and virulent. It doesn't reflect the relative weight of Israel's alleged sins compared with more heavy duty offenders. 

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, sanemax said:

OK, so why havent the BDS supporters also campaigned to boycott Chinese goods ?

For the reason of Chinas treatment of the Tibetans on Uigars ?

 If you're asking why the BDS organization hasn't condemend China, that's because that's not what they're about. They have a specific cause. They're not Amnesty International. As for BDS supporters,.. you know for a fact that none of them also have sharply condemned China? There's a lot of overlap in the Human Rights community so that makes your assertion doubtful.

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't think BDS people are capable of answering that one.

That's why I did it for them.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

But none of those nations are considered close allies of the United States and Western Europe, are they? None of them have benefited from preferential treatment the the way Israel has been treated. And it's a pretty weak justification for Israel's disgraceful treatment of the Palestinians to say it could be worse.

 

I think it could be argued that China benefits from trade relations pretty much regardless of human rights issues. Same goes for many (if not most) oil producing countries. On the UN, Israel gets condemned more often than any other, regardless of pretty much anything. Wouldn't know that bringing up the issue of which benchmark is used makes a weak point (or even using your loaded term, justification). Why is this to be ignored?

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

I think it could be argued that China benefits from trade relations pretty much regardless of human rights issues. Same goes for many (if not most) oil producing countries. On the UN, Israel gets condemned more often than any other, regardless of pretty much anything. Wouldn't know that bringing up the issue of which benchmark is used makes a weak point (or even using your loaded term, justification). Why is this to be ignored?

Maybe because it's got nothing to do with the specific question of why BDS doesn't condemn other human rights violators.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

That's why I did it for them.

I'm not convinced. 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

 If you're asking why the BDS organization hasn't condemend China, that's because that's not what they're about. They have a specific cause. They're not Amnesty International. As for BDS supporters,.. you know for a fact that none of them also have sharply condemned China? There's a lot of overlap in the Human Rights community so that makes your assertion doubtful.

 

Actually, BDS websites and supporters (even on this forum), often highlight the movement's global aspect, and support or relations to other struggles world wide. It's kinda cute, how this doesn't phase activists from virulently going on about "their" cause being the most pressing issue, the worst tragedy and the greatest human rights problem ever. Perspective is a bad bad word.

 

Haven't conducted a survey but my impression (partially based on this forum), is that the overlap touted isn't all that tight. The average topic dealing with anything remotely related to this generate a whole lot more bile compared to "competing" ones. Posters taking up the "good cause", aren't nearly as active on topics where similar issues are raised. And "the Human Rights community"? Really? 

[Morch]

21 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

That's why I did it for them.

 

Tried to, anyway. Doesn't seem you fare much better. Same old.

 

 

 

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Maybe because it's got nothing to do with the specific question of why BDS doesn't condemn other human rights violators.

Maybe you should try following the content of your own posts.

 

 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Tried to, anyway. Doesn't seem you fare much better. Same old.

 

 

 

Why invent new reasons when the old ones will do just fine. But thanks for your reasoned criticism.

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

Maybe you should try following the content of your own posts.

 

 

I conress that I occasionally do get led astay by others, but you haven't got what it takes.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I conress that I occasionally do get led astay by others, but you haven't got what it takes.

 

Well, your spelling is certainly effected.

But again, do try and follow your own posts. Doing this song and dance on every second topic gets tedious.

 

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Why invent new reasons when the old ones will do just fine. But thanks for your reasoned criticism.

 

They do fine as deflections, yes. That's what they are for, after all. As for reasoned criticism, it actually appears on several other posts, which join the many others made on past topics. If you expect a serious response, perhaps do better than a baiting one liner.

 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

 If you're asking why the BDS organization hasn't condemend China, that's because that's not what they're about. They have a specific cause. They're not Amnesty International. As for BDS supporters,.. you know for a fact that none of them also have sharply condemned China? There's a lot of overlap in the Human Rights community so that makes your assertion doubtful.

I did not and am not asking why the BDS hasnt condemned China .

I was asking why BDS supporters boycott Israeli goods and do NOT boycott Chinese goods .

BDS supporters claim they are boycotting Israeli goods because of Israels treatment of the Palestinians .

  Chinas treatment of the Tibetans/Uigars is very much worse than Isreals treatment of the Palestinians  .

   I could also mention various other ethnic minorities in various Countrys that get worse treatment/similar treatment to the Palestinians , but lets stick to the Tibetans and Uigars and China .

  Why do the people who boycott Israel not also boycott China ?

The only logical reason is that Israel is a  Jewish nation and that would make the Israel boy-cotters to be anti-semites .

  Unless you can give an explanation as to why they boycott Israel and not China 

[sanemax]

What I found most interesting about the article is that the German far right wanted to completely ban BDS from Germany whilst the far left didnt want the BDS to be labelled as anti semetic .

  Interesting .

[Cereal]

14 hours ago, JCauto said:

So Israel disgusts you so much that you actively boycott their products; it's good that you have principles and put them into action. But must be difficult, no? You obviously are outraged and angry about the ongoing slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Yemeni by the Saudi's, with the support of the USA which is clearly much worse of a violation. How do you avoid Saudi oil products and USA manufactured products or internet apps? Must be very complicated to navigate this in a practical way. Oh, and then of course there's the Russians and their annexing of the Crimea and causing the deaths of hundreds there, shooting down passenger planes etc. No Russian products for a principled man like you! Now the Chinese and their concentration camps for the Uighers. How appalling that we find ourselves using the words "concentration camps" again, eh? So no Chinese stuff for you, right?

Or not. After all, they're not Jews.

This is a total strawman argument. The poster is talking about 1 specific thing and you bring in several issues that are not related to the point.

[up-country_sinclair]

13 hours ago, sanemax said:

OK, so why havent the BDS supporters also campaigned to boycott Chinese goods ?

For the reason of Chinas treatment of the Tibetans on Uigars ?

I regularly donate money to the Red Cross.  I occasionally make a donation to a children's hospital near where I grew up.  This is where I choose to donate.  I haven't, for example, made any donations to AIDS charities or cancer organizations.  It doesn't mean that I think that these organizations shouldn't be supported.  In fact, I know that my sister does donate to the cancer society, and I think it's great that she does.

 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Cereal said:

This is a total strawman argument. The poster is talking about 1 specific thing and you bring in several issues that are not related to the point.

 

I think it is relevant to demonstrate the difference between the amount of criticism and style of delivery, when issues are related to Israel, compared to other countries - regardless of the magnitude of infractions.

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, up-country_sinclair said:

I regularly donate money to the Red Cross.  I occasionally make a donation to a children's hospital near where I grew up.  This is where I choose to donate.  I haven't, for example, made any donations to AIDS charities or cancer organizations.  It doesn't mean that I think that these organizations shouldn't be supported.  In fact, I know that my sister does donate to the cancer society, and I think it's great that she does.

 

 

Making the "personal choice" argument is fine, if you accept it for what it is. Not so much about this being the worst human rights issue ever, not so much about absolute righteousness (apparently no problems consuming products of worse human rights violators, and selective memory aside - a whole lot of posts displaying borderline, veiled or outright antisemitism. All of this is pretty much the standard fare on such topics here.

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, Cereal said:

This is a total strawman argument. The poster is talking about 1 specific thing and you bring in several issues that are not related to the point.

It really isnt a "straw man" argument .

Its a relevant point(s) .

Its a relative question .

Why do people boycott Israel and not other (worse) Countries ?

Its like a bar shop owner banning Black people from going into their shop *because they are all thieves" , yet allows everyone else into their shop , even though some are likely to steal things .

  Why do people boycott Israel and do not boycott China , considering that China treats Tibetans much worse than Israel treats Palestinians 

[sanemax]

On 5/18/2019 at 2:10 PM, Pedrogaz said:

I have been a proud member of BDS for a few years now. It aims to fight against the anti-Palestinian policies of the Israeli government. 

Do you also boycott Palestinian products , due to the Palestinian leaderships anti Israel policies ?

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, up-country_sinclair said:

I regularly donate money to the Red Cross.  I occasionally make a donation to a children's hospital near where I grew up.  This is where I choose to donate.  I haven't, for example, made any donations to AIDS charities or cancer organizations.  It doesn't mean that I think that these organizations shouldn't be supported.  In fact, I know that my sister does donate to the cancer society, and I think it's great that she does.

 

Why do you choose to boycott Israel though ?

There are over 200 Countries in the World , 10-20 of those Countries are more deserved of being boycotted , due to the way they treat minorities .

   It could even be argued that Thailand is more deserving of being boycotted , due to them not giving the Southern Muslims an independent state and not giving the 3 million stateless people living in Thailand Thai Citizenship .

  There are about 2000 different groups of people in a similar situation to the Palestinians , Tibetans , Uigars , Kurds , Armenians ,  Rohingas to name but a few .

  There are numerous other countries more deserved of a boycott .

There are over 200 Countries on the World and you choose to boycott the ONE Jewish Country .

  Israel is already boycotted by every Islamic nation , would you like to see every Country in the World boycotting Israel ?

  Maybe build a big wall around Israel and cut it off from the rest of the World ?