U.S. Treasury's Mnuchin rejects subpoena for Trump tax returns

[heybruce]

57 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's so obviously a political stunt that anyone with integrity would reject the demand, IMO. Hopefully the courts will back him.

Mnuchin has clearly broken the law.  As ex-con and former Attorney General John Mitchell learned during Nixon's Presidency, catering to the President does not protect you from conviction and prison.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Why would courts back him?  Is there some clause written into the law that makes exceptions for "political stunts", or are you hoping that the judge(s) will legislate from the bench?

 

 

LOL. Some judges have been taking the opportunity to find against Trump. 

[alanrchase]

It's so obviously a political stunt that anyone with integrity would reject the demand, IMO. Hopefully the courts will back him.

"anyone with integrity would reject the demand."

So why is Trump rejecting the demand?

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Some judges have been taking the opportunity to find against Trump. 

Yes, they have been taking the opportunity to interpret the letter and intent of the law at face value and found Trump to be outside of the law.

[wayned]

Rep Neal should grow some gonads and hold Secretary Mnuchin and the director of the IRS in contempt and invoke the inherent contempt process and and have the sergeant at arms arrest them and throw them in jail  and fine each 25000/day until they hand over the requested documents  Bars and money might just get someones attention..  Going to court is just a delay tactic ti try to get it beyond the 2020 election.

[JHolmesJr]

17 hours ago, heybruce said:

Trump didn't run to win, he ran to get his name in the news.  He was totally unprepared to take office.

Been watching too much CNN and MSNBC as usual.

Maybe you've been having romantic chats with Rachel Maddow nightly.

Keep believing that nonsense.

 

DT has brought people all around the world to their senses.....first the Brits, now the Aussies.

 

 

[atyclb]

On 5/18/2019 at 11:48 AM, rooster59 said:

U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin defied a congressional subpoena seeking six years of President Donald Trump's tax returns on Friday

 

 

or better yet dissolve, audit and disband the irs / federal reserve, which is as federal as federal express.   that would be quite a feat

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Been watching too much CNN and MSNBC as usual.

Maybe you've been having romantic chats with Rachel Maddow nightly.

Keep believing that nonsense.

 

DT has brought people all around the world to their senses.....first the Brits, now the Aussies.

 

 

 

"DT has brought people all around the world to their senses.....first the Brits, now the Aussies."

 

 

Sure he did.

 

Snarling orange 'Trump baby' blimp to mock U.S. president in Britain, protesters say

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1101705-snarling-orange-trump baby-blimp-to-mock-us-president-in-britain-protesters-say/#comments

 

Wonder what the Aussies are planning....

[mtls2005]

4 hours ago, wayned said:

Rep Neal should grow some gonads and hold Secretary Mnuchin and the director of the IRS in contempt

 

He's my Rep so admittedly I am biased...that said he seems to be progressing along a well-thought-out plan, and has so far avoided jumping to the gonad/pitchfork option.

 

He's a tad smarter than most trumpers, suspect he'll bring it home failing some Thai-style cake-box deliveries to the SCOTUS.

 

 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Been watching too much CNN and MSNBC as usual.

Maybe you've been having romantic chats with Rachel Maddow nightly.

Keep believing that nonsense.

 

DT has brought people all around the world to their senses.....first the Brits, now the Aussies.

Why is it that nobody think that I or others read the news?  I do, you should try it.

 

If you think Trump is some kind of leader and role model for the world you have definitely been watching too much fake news--Fox news pundits, Infowars, etc.

 

 

[wayned]

6 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

He's my Rep so admittedly I am biased...that said he seems to be progressing along a well-thought-out plan, and has so far avoided jumping to the gonad/pitchfork option.

 

He's a tad smarter than most trumpers, suspect he'll bring it home failing some Thai-style cake-box deliveries to the SCOTUS.

 

 

Bringing it home after the 2020 election  will do no good.  I think that it's time for the gonad/pitch fork option!

[gk10002000]

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 9:48 PM, rooster59 said:

We are unable to provide the requested information in response to the committee's subpoena

That is not true.  They are able to provide the information.  They are choosing to not provide the information.  I didn't think one can just ignore a subpoena without contesting it in court with a motion or some other act.

[wayned]

The Federal District court just ordered Trump's accounting firm to provide all of the requested documents to Congress. It will be interesting what happens now as Trump has no control over the firm and if they don't turn them over the firm will be held in contempt.  I suppose that Trump's next move will try to delay and appeal the decision.

[Tug]

1 hour ago, wayned said:

The Federal District court just ordered Trump's accounting firm to provide all of the requested documents to Congress. It will be interesting what happens now as Trump has no control over the firm and if they don't turn them over the firm will be held in contempt.  I suppose that Trump's next move will try to delay and appeal the decision.

I see a big tantrum coming from Donald much wailing blubbering nashing of teeth hopefully all this stone walling is coming to an end this isent some subcontractor he is trying to rip off whole different ball game!

[mtls2005]

2 hours ago, wayned said:

The Federal District court just ordered Trump's accounting firm to provide all of the requested documents to Congress. It will be interesting what happens now as Trump has no control over the firm and if they don't turn them over the firm will be held in contempt.  I suppose that Trump's next move will try to delay and appeal the decision.

 

Well, the argument, in that case, was equally weak, and they are using some of the same arguments in the tax issue, "Legislative Purpose", as if that has ever limited the powers of Congress to investigate. It certainly hasn't limited the Republicans in the recent past. Their zeal in investigating Clinton(s) and Obama saw no similar bounds. But of course, they're quick to forget what they did just a few years ago. Shame is in short supply on the right, shocking.

 

 

[heybruce]

Here's an argument from the judge the Trump supporters will hate--it's rational:

 

" "It is simply not fathomable that a Constitution that grants Congress the power to remove a President for reasons including criminal behavior would deny Congress the power to investigate him for unlawful conduct — past or present — even without formally opening an impeachment inquiry," Mehta wrote. "   https://www.yahoo.com/gma/judge-rules-favor-house-democrats-efforts-obtain-trumps-211000658--abc-news-topstories.html

[mtls2005]

Meh. trump has said many, many, many, many, many times that he gets audited every year, and his rich friends do not.

 

This alone would raise a red flag, and it seems normal for the Joint Committee on Taxation to look into both the audit(s), and the practices that prompted them, as part of their legislative and oversight constitutional requirements.

 

The president has long said he will release his returns after the audit is finished.

 

Surely mnuchin, or the IRS Commissioner, can answer as to the status of these audits without sacrificing any imperial privilege or privacy, right?

 

Why do I suspect there will not be a clear answer on this audit matter from the administration?

 

 

Super-Rich Americans Aren’t Getting Audited as Much, New IRS Data Show

 

The chances of an IRS audit for people making at least $10 million a year plunged during the government’s last fiscal year, according to data released on Monday.

 

The audit rate for those high earners fell to 6.66% for fiscal year 2018, less than half of the 14.52% rate the year before, according to the IRS data. The government’s fiscal year runs from Oct. 1 through Sept. 30.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-20/super-rich-aren-t-getting-audited-as-much-new-irs-data-show

 

 

 

 

[JHolmesJr]

20 hours ago, Morch said:

 

"DT has brought people all around the world to their senses.....first the Brits, now the Aussies."

 

 

Sure he did.

 

Snarling orange 'Trump baby' blimp to mock U.S. president in Britain, protesters say

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1101705-snarling-orange-trump baby-blimp-to-mock-us-president-in-britain-protesters-say/#comments

 

Wonder what the Aussies are planning....

the silent majority is not into theatrics....they have got what they want.

[JHolmesJr]

20 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

or better yet dissolve, audit and disband the irs / federal reserve, which is as federal as federal express.   that would be quite a feat

 

the appetite to mount another soft coup is dwindling fast as sphincters contract 

all around fbi.....the general won't have a barr of it.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

the silent majority is not into theatrics....they have got what they want.

 

This "silent majority"?

 

Quote

According to YouGov’s polling, 11 percent of Britons believe Trump is a great or good president. But 67 percent, a vast majority, believe he is a poor or terrible president.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-popular-britain-heres-what-polling-says-1016136

[mtls2005]

Can't see Executive Privilege working, unless he's being paid by the Russians and not declaring that income.

 

 

IRS Memo Says Tax Returns Must Be Turned Over to Congress: WaPo

 

A confidential Internal Revenue Service legal memo obtained by The Washington Post reportedly stipulates that tax returns must be given to Congress unless the president asserts executive privilege over them. The draft memo, which was reportedly penned by a lawyer in the IRS's Office of Legal Counsel, states that the disclosure of tax returns to Congress “is mandatory, requiring the Secretary to disclose returns, and return information, requested by the tax-writing Chairs.”

 

The memo also stated the law does “not allow the Secretary to exercise discretion in disclosing the information” and declared the “only basis” for the agency to refuse turning over the returns in face of a Congressional subpoena was an “invocation of the doctrine of executive privilege.” The memo, which was reportedly never forwarded to the Treasury Department, appears to contradict the Trump administration's reasoning for why it has blocked such requests.

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/irs-memo-says-tax-returns-must-be-turned-over-to-congress-wapo

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 6:15 PM, wayned said:

Rep Neal should grow some gonads and hold Secretary Mnuchin and the director of the IRS in contempt and invoke the inherent contempt process and and have the sergeant at arms arrest them and throw them in jail  and fine each 25000/day until they hand over the requested documents  Bars and money might just get someones attention..  Going to court is just a delay tactic ti try to get it beyond the 2020 election.

Good grief, do you not realise that would set a precedent which would be happily taken up by the GOP next time there is a Dem president and a GOP house?

One should be careful what one wishes for in politics.

I hope the leaders of the Dems understand they are at the edge of a political precipice that could see the end of rational political discourse, should they cross the invisible line. They should always remember that it could be them at risk, in a future government.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 12:26 PM, heybruce said:

Here's an argument from the judge the Trump supporters will hate--it's rational:

 

" "It is simply not fathomable that a Constitution that grants Congress the power to remove a President for reasons including criminal behavior would deny Congress the power to investigate him for unlawful conduct — past or present — even without formally opening an impeachment inquiry," Mehta wrote. "   https://www.yahoo.com/gma/judge-rules-favor-house-democrats-efforts-obtain-trumps-211000658--abc-news-topstories.html

LOL. Politics is the art of the irrational. The judge can come up with whatever he likes, but it's the people in the house that will make the final judgement, and it rarely makes rational sense.

Perhaps most don't realise it, but ( IMO ) American politics stands at a very serious divide, and if the politicians are not careful, the consequences could be catastrophic for the USA.

If the Dems remove Trump by some devious bureaucratic means, one should not believe that Trump's supporters will quietly accept it.

 

The next election is not far off now- they are already gearing up for the campaigns. IMO it's time to step back from confrontation and the Dems to find the candidate and policies that will win the next presidency.

If they do not, and carry on regardless, IMO it has to be because they do not believe that they can defeat Trump at the polls, when the economy is doing quite well, unemployment is low, and steady as one goes is probably preferable to going back to business as usual in Washington, remembering that the reason Trump is presently president is because the millions that voted for him have had enough of the swampy business as usual, and the most popular choice for Dem candidate is as swampy as they come.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 10:41 PM, Morch said:

 

"DT has brought people all around the world to their senses.....first the Brits, now the Aussies."

 

 

Sure he did.

 

Snarling orange 'Trump baby' blimp to mock U.S. president in Britain, protesters say

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1101705-snarling-orange-trump baby-blimp-to-mock-us-president-in-britain-protesters-say/#comments

 

Wonder what the Aussies are planning....

Having lived in the <deleted><deleted> UK a few years ago, I give them zero credit for sense, having descended into rabid PC and barking politics.

 

Whatever, I think flying stupid balloons is about all the UK is good for now, having given all the good stuff away post WW2.

 

[wayned]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good grief, do you not realise that would set a precedent which would be happily taken up by the GOP next time there is a Dem president and a GOP house?

One should be careful what one wishes for in politics.

I hope the leaders of the Dems understand they are at the edge of a political precipice that could see the end of rational political discourse, should they cross the invisible line. They should always remember that it could be them at risk, in a future government.

I realize exactly what I said.  If anyone is subpoenaed to appear before congress, GOP or Dem, and they ignore the subpoena then they should be held in contempt.  In today's environment Congress should use their inherent contempt process and arrest the violator and put him/her in jail with a very large daily fine until they appear before Congress.  In the future if a Dem did it to a GOP congress the same thing should happen, he/she broke the law.

 

Trying ignoring a subpoena to appear before a Federal or State court and see where you end up  Your argument about setting a precedent is total BS.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, wayned said:

I realize exactly what I said.  If anyone is subpoenaed to appear before congress, GOP or Dem, and they ignore the subpoena then they should be held in contempt.  In today's environment Congress should use their inherent contempt process and arrest the violator and put him/her in jail with a very large daily fine until they appear before Congress.  In the future if a Dem did it to a GOP congress the same thing should happen, he/she broke the law.

 

Trying ignoring a subpoena to appear before a Federal or State court and see where you end up  Your argument about setting a precedent is total BS.

Sooooo, why are they not doing so? Please don't use some spurious claim about the size of his gonads.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sooooo, why are they not doing so? Please don't use some spurious claim about the size of his gonads.

Subpoenas are subject to oversight by the courts. In order to ensure a subpoena is enforceable Congress has to demonstrate to the court that Congress have tried all reasonable means to enforce compliance. 

 

Congress taking steady, reasonable steps to enforce Subpoenas rather than aggressively trying to enforce compliance is a smart move.  

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Having lived in the <deleted><deleted> UK a few years ago, I give them zero credit for sense, having descended into rabid PC and barking politics.

 

Whatever, I think flying stupid balloons is about all the UK is good for now, having given all the good stuff away post WW2.

 

The UK didn't give anything away after WW2. 

 

US post war planning included holding the UK to its war debt to hobble the UK economy and hasten the end of empire and commonwealth. 

 

It worked. 

 

And now those who hark back to Empire and dream of Empire2 believe the US will offer the trade deals the UK hopes for post Brexit. 

 

 

[heybruce]

48 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good grief, do you not realise that would set a precedent which would be happily taken up by the GOP next time there is a Dem president and a GOP house?

One should be careful what one wishes for in politics.

I hope the leaders of the Dems understand they are at the edge of a political precipice that could see the end of rational political discourse, should they cross the invisible line. They should always remember that it could be them at risk, in a future government.

Set a precedent of holding people in contempt when they ignore the law.  Sounds good to me.

[wayned]

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sooooo, why are they not doing so? Please don't use some spurious claim about the size of his gonads.

They are all afraid of stepping on the wrong person's toes and then they will end up being primaried before the next election.  If they aren't capable of doing the job that they were elected to do then they should take a hike.  As said by heybruce: setting a precedent of holding people in contempt when they ignore the law sounds good to me.