Alzheimer's patient forced out of Thailand: Daughter tells Thaivisa they love Thailand but immigration rule changes mean mum must go

[alanrchase]

They pay 85,000 baht a month for their mother to be cared for. The mother would appear to have a Thai bank account. Why didn't they adjust their finances to show the 85,000 baht being transfered monthly to the Mother's bank account?

[Skallywag]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

 

Immigration refused to negotiate and allow the 86,000 baht to be considered as her mother's income. 

Guess I have not been paying attention to visa forums enough? 

Thought the 65,000 baht a month was still a viable method to get your one year visa extension?  

"The first way to get your Thailand Retirement Visa is to be able to prove that you earn enough money to live in Thailand. This means that you must earn at least 65,000 THB (as per the newest requirements released 12/26/2018). This equates to roughly $2,000 USD depending on the fluctuations in exchange rates." 

https://weexpats.com/retirement-visa-thailand-how-to-get-a-thailand-retirement-visa/

[niebla]

If the son or daughter is on a retirement visa and has a birth certificate the mom can be added as a dependent on the son/daughter's retirement visa with no income or 800,000 requirement. 

[kinyara]

I'm surprised a sprawling metropolis like Manila is the choice, if they are shelling out 3 lots of 800k or 2 plus their mother's 85k a month I would have thought Malaysia and its my second home retirement policy would have been a better option given the security of stay it offers. Costs are generally on a par with Thailand and I would have thought a place like Penang for example would be a more relaxing and pleasant place to live in their mother's situation.

 

Regardless of whether we don't like to face the truth, I think we've got to realise when moving to any foreign country the rules can change and nothing is set in stone, that's the risk you take. The fact Thailand's Non-O is an annual " Extension of Stay " doesn't exactly exude permanence. I don't think it's ever aggressively marketed itself as a guararanteed retirement destination, maybe with the Elite Visa option I suppose, but people make their choices. I'm sure EU and other immigrants to the UK and dreamers in the US are not enjoying the uncertainty with the direction those governments are going in. I also don't think for a minute those countries would have any interest in bending the rules on a case by case example. 

 

[fantom]

I agree with many of the preceeding comments. Nowhere do I see any suggestion the family have been to an agency such as AssistThai rather than winging this on their own.

A professional agency would have steered them to arrange their finances legally and within the rules.  From preceding comments from those much wiser than I, it would seem there are a number of options they should have considered.

[Beggar]

14 minutes ago, Seismic said:

Wow, In 40 years of visiting and working in the Philippines, I never once had a problem with finding edible food. What's wrong, don't you like Balut ?????

Correct. Balut is great. In the worst case there is a Jollibee almost everywhere. This country is a fast food heaven. The problem could start when you are in an area without fast food chains. Just drink a lot of Red Horse beer with the food then. 

[baansgr]

They could have her move in with them, hire a care worker and split care between them. The 85,000 a month saved could then be used as income. I understand it wouldn't be easy for them and would infringe on their relaxing retirement but she is their Mother after all .. Its an option that that the Mother could sray here so unfair to blame immigration. 

[Beggar]

People are always complaining about the Thai immigration and their rules. But if you think about the rules in your home country - they might/will be even more strict. 

[SiSePuede419]

Just got an email from an insurance agent. 

 

I asked him what about age 75 (the insurance quote only went up to age 74). ????

[MellowYellow101]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Half baked policy changes mean many good people are getting burned and many others are left feeling raw.

It will most likely come and bite them in the backside eventually. Wait until the higher spending tourists they are targeting to come here, get bored of this place, and find far better and more accommodating and clean nations to visit instead. 

[kamahele]

While they may not be able to afford to leave 800,000 in a bank account, they are putting over a million baht per year into the Thai economy just in paying for the mother's care, not to mention their own housing etc. Sad

[Old Croc]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

She has had Alzheimer's for about 15 years.  A home that specializes in Alzheimer's care in Chiang Mai called Care Resort was found. 

 

Though it costs 85,000 baht a month they could just afford it and pay for their own retirement needs first in Koh Samui then on the mainland in Khanom, Nakorn Sri Thammarat. 

So, the family doesn't currently live in CM, but Khanom, the opposite end of Thailand and about 1200 kms away from where their mother is hospitalized. Not exactly providing close support to her.  They do have a daughter of their own working nearby on Samui.

For me this indicates they didn't bring the mother here to be close to her, but to take advantage of SE Asia's cheaper nursing facilities. If the Philippines is even cheaper, and the mother apparently doesn't know the difference, what's the problem?

And, is it really fair for people to dump their chronically ill relatives into the Thailand health system because the richest country on earth doesn't provide for their sick and elderly?

 

 

[wmccpa112253]

There is more to this story than the successful young business owners are telling you.  I don’t believe anything they say.  

Where is the woman’s social security checks going?  Where is the gain on sale of their successful business and or what did they spend it on?

A lot of unanswered questions!

[baansgr]

32 minutes ago, Seismic said:

Wow, In 40 years of visiting and working in the Philippines, I never once had a problem with finding edible food. What's wrong, don't you like Balut ?????

If only people looked, or even went there, they may realise flipper cuisine is very nice and varied. The pork actually tastes like pork

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm..... last farang(alien) out please turn out the light?

[atyclb]

4 hours ago, aussienam said:

The reality is IMO that the Thai establishment no longer wish for low end expat spenders, preferring for upper middle and high end income earning expats.  Health insurance is obviously an issue as is other issues that could burden the Thai economy - but I feel in the whole scheme of things that this would only account for a small percentage.  I get that having people here financially self sufficient is a good idea, but their requirements I feel are too rigid and with the new laws it makes those who have been doing the right thing all along being punished.  Of course there are those who have caused problems and hence the crackdown and changes.  But I feel that there may be a bigger strategy here to change the face of those who come here.  There is always the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam and probably a few other places as well that in time will cater better for expats and those needing care.   Sad for the lady though.  A bit of flexibility in circumstances like this would be good IMO.  

 

dont kid yourself, there is no lack of financially secure people including those with masters degrees and doctorates that are tired of the bs and like to decide where they deposit their money and for how long and dont entertain the philosophy that showing money = good person.

[lamyai3]

5 minutes ago, baansgr said:

They could have her move in with them, hire a care worker and split care between them. The 85,000 a month saved could then be used as income. I understand it wouldn't be easy for them and would infringe on their relaxing retirement but she is their Mother after all .. Its an option that that the Mother could sray here so unfair to blame immigration. 

Agree, too bad they don't know the right carer. If there are no immediate medical issues other than Alzheimer's and it's just a matter of supervision, stimulation and companionship, countless good people here could surely do the job. My friend finds her maid absolutely indespensible (and inexhaustible) in looking after her three young children, and the culture here of respect towards elders means that the right person could likely do an amazing job at a fraction of the 85k they're paying the care home.

 

Anyway good luck to the family, and kudos to them in highlighting the heartless and ill-considered policies of immigration, which are likely to push out more and more people in the near future. 

[newnative]

    The story doesn't make sense.  First they say they don't have 800,000 to put in the bank and they are forced to move their mother out of Thailand.  But, then later in the story they say they put 800,000 in the bank and the mother could stay until February of next year but they decide to move the mother anyway as her condition has deteriorated and it's 'now or never'.  So, in reality, the mother isn't being 'forced out' of Thailand.  It sounds like they found an alternative in the Philippines that's 1/3 cheaper and that's the real reason they are moving her.   Maybe they are hoping to get some sympathy donations with their pseudo sob story.  

[Alan Michael]

I thought that Thailand was a compassionate Buddhist country?

Isn't it a good thing that immigration rules in Europe are not so heartless to foreigners as Thailand's immigration is?

Many Thai citizens coming to Europe and other western countries are treated much better in Europe.

But we are a developed country. Thailand has some way to go.

[LukKrueng]

I feel for this family, I really do. But what most people are not willing to accept is that Thailand is not (and not interested to be) an immigrant country like USA, Australia, NZ and other countries. Thailand is allowing foreigners to stay here long term providing it benefits Thailand according to the Thai government's definition, and NOT by the self definition of those who want to stay here.

So there are different types of visas by which people who fit the conditions of those visas can come and stay here. However, as we all know, many people "trick" the system and stay here even though they don't really comply with the conditions of any type of visa or permit to stay (visa runs, using an agent to falsely show the 800K in the bank etc'). So obviously the more strict regulations and following of the regulations is an attempt to stop the abuse of the system and as sad as it might be in some cases, those who can't meet the demands of the visa/permit have to find another place to live in. 

 

[Alan Michael]

5 hours ago, Chazar said:

Love the mentality, questioning isn't allowed,  follow  the  rule, obey, conform.

It would be nice to see this "Thai  Visa/Nation contacted immigration to hear their comment on this  case"

Obviously Thai immigration aren't very compassionate Buddhists.

[Alan Michael]

26 minutes ago, bbbbooboo said:

Hmmm..... last farang(alien) out please turn out the light?

Many farang for many years have looked after and have financially supported their Thai wives and girlfriends, their children that were abandoned by their Thai fathers and the wife or girlfriend's aging parents.

Will the oh! so compassionate Thai government look after these Thai people if us farang are no longer allowed to stay in Thailand due to changed and unnecessary financial restrictions?

[moe666]

How were they meeting the requirements before? They were not they lied to the consulate that the old lady has the income. The old lady got hit because of a lie not because the immigration folks were jerks. This change in proof was to flush out the people who cheated by lying to the Embassy or Consulate. Sorry about the old lady but she is the result of a lie by here family. Thai immigration isn't a welfare agency and should not function as one but over the years I have seen old folks given a bit of special front of the line treatment by IOs to expidite their extension.

Off to Manila were everyone speaks english you cannot understand, infastructure is crap and the old lady knows nothing because of her condition. Hopefully the family will treat her better than before, no more lies.

[hotchilli]

The truth is they don't really want any expats living here, they want tourists, come for 2 weeks, blow all your money & go home to let more in!

[RBOP]

I have seen old folks at immigration carted in a on wheel chairs who obviously shouldn't have left the hospital or home to do their visa business. I did see them get pushed to the front of the que so there is a bit of compassion there. But rules are rules. 

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, DingDongLing said:

More people= More money/economic movement = more taxes/vat/ect

Basic economic principals that they do not realize.

how about the need for more infrastructure? 

[moe666]

15 minutes ago, newnative said:

    The story doesn't make sense.  First they say they don't have 800,000 to put in the bank and they are forced to move their mother out of Thailand.  But, then later in the story they say they put 800,000 in the bank and the mother could stay until February of next year but they decide to move the mother anyway as her condition has deteriorated and it's 'now or never'.  So, in reality, the mother isn't being 'forced out' of Thailand.  It sounds like they found an alternative in the Philippines that's 1/3 cheaper and that's the real reason they are moving her.   Maybe they are hoping to get some sympathy donations with their pseudo sob story.  

Spot on, this is the perfect spot to get some feel goods along with the Thai bashing that goes on. They lied to the consulate about the income statement over the years and now they do not want to put the cash in the bank. Great family true christian spirit they have for old mom

[SiSePuede419]

42 minutes ago, wmccpa112253 said:

There is more to this story than the successful young business owners are telling you.  I don’t believe anything they say.  

Where is the woman’s social security checks going?  Where is the gain on sale of their successful business and or what did they spend it on?

A lot of unanswered questions!

 

A lot of "small businesses" don't pay much SS tax because they deduct so much as "business expenses".  The SS payout is based on income.  Small income, small retirement checks.

 

The young people who "drop out of society" and become "Digital Nomads" or "Web Entrepreneurs" are taking short term pleasure but shooting themselves in the feet when it comes to getting a big Social Security check amount. ????

[zydeco]

7 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Thai immigration isn't a welfare agency and should not function as one

They're paying 86,000 per month for the woman's care. And you think they're getting welfare?

[shady86]

Better leave this country. There are much better places elsewhere.