The Police Are Photographing Us.

[bdenner]

Just been reading through the thread in the Pattaya Forum re the April 1st Passport clampdown and wondering if it is linked to what is currently happening here in Amphur Ban Dung.

We are being visited by the Police (BiB, not Immigration) and photographed with our TW/TGF, they have been to visit me but I wasn’t home. They are also asking the partner to fill out a small questionnaire (in Thai) about the Farang’s day to day activities etc. The guys that have been approached so far say it’s pretty informal, they have not been asked to produce any documentation and the Police have been very polite.

Is this an isolated thing? Is it legal? The BiB have indicated it’s happening nation wide but I doubt it, the logistics are mind boggling particularly in populated areas.

[Farma]

On arrival at Ubon airport last week a lady was actively photographing all arriving passengers as we came down the escalator. Anybody she missed were photographed as they collected their baggage or left the baggage area.

[astral]

Orwell's 1984 and the police state??

[ronw]

On arrival at Ubon airport last week a lady was actively photographing all arriving passengers as we came down the escalator. Anybody she missed were photographed as they collected their baggage or left the baggage area.

The BiB here in Pai have been photographing some farang.....mostly, it seems , those who have a business.Every thing, so I am told ,was done in a friendly manner.So far, that is all that has happened....No explanations were offered, or , when asked, given!

I have been here almost four years, and have not yet been approached for anything like this.....so far, so good!!! Not that I am worried.....my nose is clean.....and everything else.

[Phil Conners]

They are also asking the partner to fill out a small questionnaire (in Thai) about the Farang’s day to day activities etc.

Wow, that is nasty. What kind of questions?

As astral suggested, this is right out of "1984", creepy!!

[tartempion]

One month ago BiB stopped at my place to fill in form, just my name and adress here.

Same happened to an other farang living other side of the village.

Seems the "new" governement wants to know where the farangs are, how come they don't know already?

Don't we have to declare where we live within 24h of arriving somewhere?

Don't we write down our adres on teh arrival card?

Don't we declare our adres every 90 days?

Or is it to cross check all that information?

Have they set up an SS division yet ?

[tijnebijn]

Indeed a creepy thought.Over here in the north I still did not hear anything about this pratice.For me it is a break into our privates right.I do not know that what they do is internationally legal,because of this,after all we are all citizens of our home country,and because of that some rights we have come along with that.I do not know if this is a right thing,certainly does not make farang feel comfortable and make a lot of older people they go sraight back in the SS time indeed.......the only thing I can think of is that they want pictures for internationally sought people with criminal purposes,so they can get away with them,is not a strange thought,so me and the most of us have to bear the bureaucracy from the' bad farangs'who make this happen.....

Still think it is privately unjustified!

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I guess the old adage, it's their country they can do what they like applies!

I'm leaving in May!

[Krub]

Indeed a creepy thought.Over here in the north I still did not hear anything about this pratice.For me it is a break into our privates right.I do not know that what they do is internationally legal,because of this,after all we are all citizens of our home country,and because of that some rights we have come along with that.I do not know if this is a right thing,certainly does not make farang feel comfortable and make a lot of older people they go sraight back in the SS time indeed.......the only thing I can think of is that they want pictures for internationally sought people with criminal purposes,so they can get away with them,is not a strange thought,so me and the most of us have to bear the bureaucracy from the' bad farangs'who make this happen.....

Still think it is privately unjustified!

International justice ? rights ?

You must be joking

You think the Thai authorities have a duty to ask your government if they can take your picture while you are in their country ?

Think again !

[solo siam]

Not sure what the problem is, so what if they take your photo - its obviously some sort of security measure - with all the international criminals/paedophiles hiding out in Thailand it may be a step towards making it unsafe here for those people.

[peter991]

Two trains of thought here:

Firstly: A lot of us who spend time in Issan can 'vanish' into a remote village because we like the area so much and decide never to return to our homeland. This happens a fair bit, I have been told. After a while you get to know who is who in your village. Maybe the Police have found out about this and are trying to match up names with those of us who decide to go MIA.

Secondly: Pressure could have come from foreign governments trying to track down 'missing' farangs.

My vote goes with the first option.

Peter

[mackayae]

They have been doing this off and on in Udon for years, about 8 years. They usually come around once a year. Ask a few questions, like what do you do, do you work. Sometimes they take your picture with your wife. They tell you if you have a problem, even if it is with your wife, come and see them. These are the local police and they do this in a friendly manner. I was always under the impression they were doing this for the safety of the farang. I believe this comes from above, like the Interior Ministry. In the past, there had been complaints to the Thai Foreign Ministry from European Governments about the treatment of some of their citizens.

[tijnebijn]

Indeed a creepy thought.Over here in the north I still did not hear anything about this pratice.For me it is a break into our privates right.I do not know that what they do is internationally legal,because of this,after all we are all citizens of our home country,and because of that some rights we have come along with that.I do not know if this is a right thing,certainly does not make farang feel comfortable and make a lot of older people they go sraight back in the SS time indeed.......the only thing I can think of is that they want pictures for internationally sought people with criminal purposes,so they can get away with them,is not a strange thought,so me and the most of us have to bear the bureaucracy from the' bad farangs'who make this happen.....

Still think it is privately unjustified!

International justice ? rights ?

You must be joking

You think the Thai authorities have a duty to ask your government if they can take your picture while you are in their country ?

Think again !

I thought again,and yeah like how I wrote it down,you are right,but still maybe not the international thing but national laws,i do not know but they got privacy laws or not,I mean they need also a warrant to get in your place or not?I try to say if it is lawfully to do like that??if someone refuses,even if they are clean,cause of the privates rights.....not that I will refuse myself or something like that,I'm just wondering...

[Krub]

Indeed a creepy thought.Over here in the north I still did not hear anything about this pratice.For me it is a break into our privates right.I do not know that what they do is internationally legal,because of this,after all we are all citizens of our home country,and because of that some rights we have come along with that.I do not know if this is a right thing,certainly does not make farang feel comfortable and make a lot of older people they go sraight back in the SS time indeed.......the only thing I can think of is that they want pictures for internationally sought people with criminal purposes,so they can get away with them,is not a strange thought,so me and the most of us have to bear the bureaucracy from the' bad farangs'who make this happen.....

Still think it is privately unjustified!

International justice ? rights ?

You must be joking

You think the Thai authorities have a duty to ask your government if they can take your picture while you are in their country ?

Think again !

I thought again,and yeah like how I wrote it down,you are right,but still maybe not the international thing but national laws,i do not know but they got privacy laws or not,I mean they need also a warrant to get in your place or not?I try to say if it is lawfully to do like that??if someone refuses,even if they are clean,cause of the privates rights.....not that I will refuse myself or something like that,I'm just wondering...

In my opinion,keep wondering and be polite and let them in even without warant or other official papers.

They want a picture? Smile and pose for them !

Don't worry TIT

[Casanundra]

I thought again,and yeah like how I wrote it down,you are right,but still maybe not the international thing but national laws,i do not know but they got privacy laws or not,I mean they need also a warrant to get in your place or not?I try to say if it is lawfully to do like that??if someone refuses,even if they are clean,cause of the privates rights.....not that I will refuse myself or something like that,I'm just wondering...

Under the 1997 constitution there where 'some' rights to privacy but in the absence of a constitution there are now no rights to privacy in Thailand.

Thailand did ratify itself to the UN Human rights treaty which does state that every human has the right to privacy 'in their own home' and therefore through that ratification we should all be protected. However the reality is often different and there is a huge difference to saying 'NO' to a copper and an immigration officer on the street and having your rights to privacy protected when they come knocking on your door.

I would be more concerned not by the fact that they are taking your photo but more about what exactly they will do to that photo, about what access people have to it, about how they are going to secure your privacy and if this information will be used in any kind of devious or malicious manner against you. We don't have the DPA 1998 or the EU data protection directive or what ever the USA provides (Patriotic act erhum! ) here to protect us and if you are genuinely worried about privacy issues as a foreigner in Thailand then you should maybe consider living in another country.

Edited March 11, 2007 by Casanundra

[solo siam]

What absence of a constitution? Thailand has an interim constitution in effect until the new permanent constitution is completed. The UK has no formal constitution, but a large number of written and unwritten laws, just because the old constitution here in Thailand is no longer in effect, it doesn't change the current laws of the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Interim_...ion_of_Thailand

[Casanundra]

What absence of a constitution? Thailand has an interim constitution in effect until the new permanent constitution is completed. The UK has no formal constitution, but a large number of written and unwritten laws, just because the old constitution here in Thailand is no longer in effect, it doesn't change the current laws of the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Interim_...ion_of_Thailand

You are confusing two legal systems here. Thailand is a civil system whereas the UK is based on common law hence why the UK does not have a constitution. It's like comparing chalk with cheese.

Granted that you are correct in that Thailand does have an interim constitution and the daughter laws are still in place but the privacy laws (which is what I believe we are discussing here) are pretty much none existent In Thailand. They don't really offer the kind of protection that the EU directive and the DPA 1998 would offer those back in Europe and the UK either and that was I believe the point I was trying to make.

Edited March 11, 2007 by Casanundra

[bannork]

Just been reading through the thread in the Pattaya Forum re the April 1st Passport clampdown and wondering if it is linked to what is currently happening here in Amphur Ban Dung.

We are being visited by the Police (BiB, not Immigration) and photographed with our TW/TGF, they have been to visit me but I wasn’t home. They are also asking the partner to fill out a small questionnaire (in Thai) about the Farang’s day to day activities etc. The guys that have been approached so far say it’s pretty informal, they have not been asked to produce any documentation and the Police have been very polite.

Is this an isolated thing? Is it legal? The BiB have indicated it’s happening nation wide but I doubt it, the logistics are mind boggling particularly in populated areas.

We got the same form last week from the local อบต.councillor, it's more like a friendly census asking how many children you have together,what was her marital status when she met the farang, has the wife ever lived abroad and did she adjust okay; the bit about farangs participating in village life perplexed me, the missus said it meant give donations to the local temple, make merit etc .

The last 2 questions were if there was anything the farangs wanted to make life easier so I said make Thai citizenship more accessible and cheaper!

No hope of course!

[ray23]

I was stopped at locla place here in Udon by the Chinese Wat and asked some fairly harmless questions, no photos actually spent more thime talking about bikes since one of the guys had the same one I did.

Really didn't think to much of it since it was the same info immigrations had anyway. No one has ever stopped at the house.

[cclub75]

Not sure what the problem is, so what if they take your photo - its obviously some sort of security measure - with all the international criminals/paedophiles hiding out in Thailand it may be a step towards making it unsafe here for those people.

Yes sure... And how come, at Suva, they have scrapped the "webcams" system (installed 2 years ago at Don Muang) ?

That was a good way to control things...

[jbsears]

so these coppers in the countryside can actually speak English? i haven't ran across any that do in Bkk.

[tijnebijn]

Allright the point that casanundra makes is the point I was wondering about.He clearly pointed it out better then I ever could.I agree with what you wrote.But not the fact that you have to point out for me leaving Thailand like if I cannot hard this....I mean why pointing this out to anyone,it is none of your business.

All but not least they will proberly have a reason why they do this and I asume they will tell why they do it and what to do with it,maybe the OP can tell this??

[bingobongo]

yes, it is called Burma Part Deux, it is a police state run by the junta......get used to it cause nothing is going to change in october

[Casanundra]

All but not least they will probably have a reason why they do this and I assume they will tell why they do it and what to do with it,maybe the OP can tell this??

I think you will find (as one poster pointed out) that "no explanation will be offered" and unless you can speak Thai or the bobby / immigration agent can speak good English that no sensible explanation will be forthcoming other than words to say 'smile please' as they snap your picture.

If anyone has been given a reason for this round up of details and has been told what will happen to the information once it has been gathered, well I for one would love to hear about it. Anyone got an explanation from the horses mouth so to speak?

[MarkBKK]

What absence of a constitution? Thailand has an interim constitution in effect until the new permanent constitution is completed. The UK has no formal constitution, but a large number of written and unwritten laws, just because the old constitution here in Thailand is no longer in effect, it doesn't change the current laws of the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Interim_...ion_of_Thailand

You are confusing two legal systems here. Thailand is a civil system whereas the UK is based on common law hence why the UK does not have a constitution. It's like comparing chalk with cheese.

A common misconception, I believe. English law is based on case law, not ''common law'', which I don't think exists (in the UK).

[talatnat]

They have been doing this off and on in Udon for years, about 8 years. They usually come around once a year. Ask a few questions, like what do you do, do you work. Sometimes they take your picture with your wife.

How many of the posters here who got visited by the BiB recently ALSO applied for an extension of a visa based on marriage or retirement? The last time I applied for a visa extension, about six month ago, they required a complete interrogation of the family's history: Where did we meet? What do we do? How many children do we have? How old are they, and what do they do? Is the farang happy? How can they help? and so on... It all got input into a computer. I'm sure it is a requirement from years past: Indeed, I recall an immigration officer telling us to expect a visit from the BiB -- it never materialized.

I just think they are filling-in-the-blanks on orders from above. Pure housekeeping, and getting their records up-to-date. I'm sure it also would help the Thai government profile the foreigners living here so they can make amend their immigration and tax laws accordingly.

In the Ubon posting (not the Udon one I quoted above), it was probably a reporter or a TAT official getting some pictures of foreigners for an upcoming story; or a school kid doing an essay...

Sheesh, let's not get paranoid...

Edited March 11, 2007 by talatnat

[Casanundra]

A common misconception, I believe. English law is based on case law, not ''common law'', which I don't think exists (in the UK).

Where do you think case law derives from then? Common law of course and I quote:

"In the common law tradition case law regulates, via precedents, how laws are to be understood, based on how prior cases have been decided. Case law governs the impact court decisions have on future cases. Unlike most civil law systems, common law systems follow the doctrine of stare decisis in which lower courts usually make decisions consistent with previous decisions of higher courts.

Common law as opposed to civil law: The second connotation differentiates "common law" jurisdictions (most of which descend from the English legal system) that place great weight on such common law decisions, from "civil law" or "code" jurisdictions (many of which descend from the Napoleonic code in which the weight accorded to judicial precedent is much less).

The common law constitutes the basis of the legal systems of: England and Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland"

I rest my case for the defence your honour.

[Farma]

In the Ubon posting (not the Udon one I quoted above), it was probably a reporter or a TAT official getting some pictures of foreigners for an upcoming story; or a school kid doing an essay...

Sheesh, let's not get paranoid...

I think we can discount the schoolgirl doing a project idea. TAT official maybe, but unlikely. The lady in question was very determined in her efforts to photograph of all arriving passengers.

Paranoid slightly. It reminded me of the way police videoed all bus passengers as the buses left Phuket Island 25 years ago. It’s the first time I’ve been photographed like this in as many years.

[astral]

A common misconception, I believe. English law is based on case law, not ''common law'', which I don't think exists (in the UK).

Oh yes, it does exist.

Much more basic than "case law" in the US, for example.

See this link.

Ps do not believe all you read in Wikipedia............

[talatnat]

The lady in question was very determined in her efforts to photograph of all arriving passengers.

Oy! A Japanese tourist!! Sorry, couldn't help that.

Okay, I'll share your paranoia, maybe we'll both feel half-bad and double-good... G'night.