Retiring to Europe (Portugal)

[brokenbone]

if anyone has been there, how feasible is it to

use a scooter on daily errands ?

[GalaxyMan]

Not a problem, as long as you don't have an issue with freezing-cold rain. I never had a car while living there, only a scooter, and that was fine. Had good rain gear and never gave it a second thought. Speaking of Portugal, not Italy. I'd want a scooter in Italy after seeing the incredible traffic.

Edited June 20, 2019 by GalaxyMan

[simon43]

One obstacle of returning to live in EU that I've just encountered is the topic of bank accounts.  If you don't already have a bank account in an EU country, then anti-money laundering/know your customer regulations could make it very difficult to open a new bank account.

 

I'm trying to open a bank account and am being asked for my Tax Identification Number and print-out of my fiscal tax record for the past year.  The bank in question can't get their head round that these types of things don't exist in Burma (my last place of employment), and my request by email to my school employer for details of tax paid has been met with a 'Tax payments? You're a foreign teacher - no schools pay tax for foreign teachers' type of reply.....

 

i'm hoping that the school can provide some sort of paperwork to demonstrate that I wasn't required to pay tax, but I'm not hopeful.

 

 

[GalaxyMan]

20 minutes ago, simon43 said:

One obstacle of returning to live in EU that I've just encountered is the topic of bank accounts.  If you don't already have a bank account in an EU country, then anti-money laundering/know your customer regulations could make it very difficult to open a new bank account.

 

I'm trying to open a bank account and am being asked for my Tax Identification Number and print-out of my fiscal tax record for the past year.  The bank in question can't get their head round that these types of things don't exist in Burma (my last place of employment), and my request by email to my school employer for details of tax paid has been met with a 'Tax payments? You're a foreign teacher - no schools pay tax for foreign teachers' type of reply.....

 

i'm hoping that the school can provide some sort of paperwork to demonstrate that I wasn't required to pay tax, but I'm not hopeful.

 

 

The worst thing I had to deal with in 4 years living in Portugal was the banks. Incredible. I've never heard the word NO more, even just to open an account! It was a non-stop battle with my bank the whole time. Thailand's banks are far easier to work with.

[Jingthing]

The worst thing I had to deal with in 4 years living in Portugal was the banks. Incredible. I've never heard the word NO more, even just to open an account! It was a non-stop battle with my bank the whole time. Thailand's banks are far easier to work with.

That's a really useful caveat. Probably even more so for Americans because of the onerous required reporting. Funny thing is that even though it was years ago and I don't recall the details I do remember I had a very painful experience dealing with a bank in Evora (only as a tourist). Also got a parking ticket there where the cop ordered me to follow him to the police station. But the bright side is that I had a peasant style garlic bread soup there that was one of the best foods I've ever eaten in my life.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[seasia]

19 hours ago, brokenbone said:

if anyone has been there, how feasible is it to

use a scooter on daily errands ?

Hi

 

You have an answer re. Portugal which I guess is the location you were enquiring about.

As to Italy, yes a scooter fairly practical for getting around. I am talking here of the north.

I stopped driving years ago and have not any desire to start again but the thought of a little scooter for getting around locally has crossed my mind.

 

If you can ride one in Thailand you would be fine here. ( Italy )

[seasia]

On 6/19/2019 at 3:59 PM, GalaxyMan said:

Don't get me wrong, I love Italy. It's probably in my top 5 or 6 countries in terms of the amount of time I've spent there. But because of that, I also know the reality of Italy. I'd never live there, but will always be happy to visit.

Hi

 

Genuine question here.

What would put you off living in Italy ?

I am  here now and thinking of 6 months a year here, so not living here as such but that is mostly due to not wanting to be here in the winter months plus tax implications if staying more than 6 months.

 

What do you see as the downsides ? I know there are some.

Would be interested in your thoughts.

 

Thanks

 

[wisperone]

42 minutes ago, seasia said:

Genuine question here.

What would put you off living in Italy ?

I am  here now and thinking of 6 months a year here, so not living here as such but that is mostly due to not wanting to be here in the winter months plus tax implications if staying more than 6 months.

 

What do you see as the downsides ? I know there are some.

Would be interested in your thoughts.

I'm also interested in the same info on pros and cons of living there. Also thinking of maybe 6 months of the year and if the south is warm enough in winter to get out and live life outdoors.

 

Just purchased my flight ticket today to Italy. Certainly not cheap. Have flown to Asia for the same price.

Edited June 20, 2019 by wisperone

[simon43]

The bank in Andorra wants me to provide my British TIN (Tax Information Number).  I left the UK 18 years ago, with no contact with their tax authorities for 17 years ????

 

So this could be a showstopper for moving back to Europe.  I had no idea how strict the banks have become about money-laundering, (as if my $3,000 salary with employer payslips is 'money-laundering'). They can't get their heads round the fact that I legally haven't paid tax for yonks and yonks!

 

OTOH, my alternative choice of Luang Prabang is coming along nicely, and I'm visiting the city next weekend to view some houses for rent.  Typical monthly rent for a nice location that overlooks the Mekong river is about 12,000 baht, which is still well within my budget.

 

 

[seasia]

On 6/21/2019 at 2:58 AM, wisperone said:

I'm also interested in the same info on pros and cons of living there. Also thinking of maybe 6 months of the year and if the south is warm enough in winter to get out and live life outdoors.

 

Just purchased my flight ticket today to Italy. Certainly not cheap. Have flown to Asia for the same price.

Hi

 

I am staying in the north.    6 months of the year, perhaps stretched a little is OK climate wise.Cold winters though.

Far south would be OK for longer albeit some chilly times Dec. thru Feb.

 

Sicily might suit if you want winter and an outdoor life.

 

Link to year round climate for Sicily

 

https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/italy/sicily

 

Whereabouts in Italy are you going if you don t mind me asking ?

[wisperone]

3 hours ago, seasia said:

Hi

 

I am staying in the north.    6 months of the year, perhaps stretched a little is OK climate wise.Cold winters though.

Far south would be OK for longer albeit some chilly times Dec. thru Feb.

 

Sicily might suit if you want winter and an outdoor life.

 

Link to year round climate for Sicily

 

https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/italy/sicily

 

Whereabouts in Italy are you going if you don t mind me asking ? 

I'll be staying a little west of Milan for one month. Have a bit of business to attend to. Then will be returning to the area perhaps couple months later. Was thinking of Sicily for the winter in future.

[snowballthecat]

Winter in the south of Italy can be quite pleasant. By the sea is never too cold, and very, very sunny, ideal for long walks, fishing, outdoor activities.

I "specialise" in Sardegna, love it! Out of season, the better. 

North, East, South coast. Maybe 10-12 degreees by day, 7-8 by night. 

 

Very simple ancient roman villages with old traditions: sheeps, cheeses, grapes, all vegetables you can dream of....

Nice people, plenty of flights to mainland and Europe (low cost).

 

@Simon43: the story of the banks became globalised now.....Almost impossible to open a personal or business (worst) account in Hong Kong, same reasons, money-laundry regulations. 

 

It must be a way-round for you: as teachers/translators (me), we are required to pay pension/tax ourselves, mostly. Many people choose to self-insured. I must have some letters from employers stating that I am responsible for my own contributions. Bingo. 

 

As long as you show any Tax number, you should be fine. As the task of the bank is to comply with their own anti-laundry regulations, not to check if one has payed enough tax/pension into its own schemes. 

 

This is something very scary about setting a  foot in Europe: as a returnees, one  places a foot in Europe, and the taxman appears!

Get all the advice beforehand....

 

Other put-off (for me) is an excess of regulations and little nonsense rule.....Ufffff

But there are upsides and downsides, as for everything, you know that....

[snowballthecat]

[snowballthecat]

This is an interesting website, plenty of farmhouses and plots for sale, can give you an idea what you can get in the North Coast of Sardinia.

 

https://www.privatimmobiliaresardegna.com

My chosen area is Sennori-Sorso, close to two international airports, close enough to the cities (Alghero, Ostia and Sassari), very  wild and immaculate in some areas.

[questionsreplies]

Sorry but why going to Thailand to finally relocate to Europe ? Wrong decision at first ? Just asking.

[simon43]

6 minutes ago, questionsreplies said:

Sorry but why going to Thailand to finally relocate to Europe ? Wrong decision at first ? Just asking.

Who are you asking? ????

 

In my case, I moved to Thailand in 2002.  That's a long time ago and many things have changed in that time, including my own views.

 

I have been considering relocating back to Europe because of 'boiling-frog' syndrome in Thailand, as more and more petty rules that affect me are introduced.

 

In fact, as I have mentioned in this forum, it looks like I will not be relocating back to EU just yet.  I'll maybe move when I retire.  In the meantime, it looks like I'll be moving back to live in Luang Prabang (Laos).

[MJCM]

On 6/10/2019 at 7:40 AM, stevenl said:

It is easier to move to another country than your citizen one.

Care to elaborate?

[snowballthecat]

Reviewing my choices in Europe....

Almeria looks better and better, by the day. In 2004, lived in Sevilla and travelled around a bit. Great surroundings! In my mind, Cadiz, Tarifa, Granada....

Cannot beat Madeira in cost, but being in mainland offer some advantages.

Economy also got better in Spain.

https://nomadlist.com/forum/t/whats-the-best-warm-destinations-in-europe-in-the-winter/2470/29

There are also National Parks, some readers mentioned here that one can live inside....

 

 

[brokenbone]

On 6/24/2019 at 3:13 PM, questionsreplies said:

Sorry but why going to Thailand to finally relocate to Europe ? Wrong decision at first ? Just asking.

mostly due to visa uncertainty, in europe im a citizen,

then there is also the health care im entitled to,

and that the currency exchange means money wise

south europe is just as cheap as thailand,

maybe even cheaper depending on health.

i would trade to a bit chiller winters

in exchange for granted indefinite stay

regardless of anything,

if only the relocation wasnt so bloody painful with my broken back

Edited August 12, 2019 by brokenbone

[7by7]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 11:14 AM, MJCM said:

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 1:40 AM, stevenl said:

It is easier to move to another country than your citizen one.

Care to elaborate?

 

I think he is referring to the EU freedom of movement directive.

 

This means that a EU/EEA/Swiss national can move to another member state as if it were their own if they are exercising an economic treaty right; which includes living off independent means such as a pension.

 

Of course, they also have the right to move to and live in the country of which they are a citizen; but what if they have a non EU/EEA/Swiss national, e.g. Thai, spouse?

 

If moving from Thailand to their home country, then the directive will not apply and their Thai spouse will need to meet the immigration requirements of that country and pay any required fees. But if moving to a member state other than that of which they are a citizen then the directive does apply so, providing they are travelling with or to join them, their Thai spouse has the same FoM rights as they do; which means meeting minimal requirements and paying no fees. 

 

Having lived and exercised their economic treaty right with their Thai spouse for a period, they could then move to their home country and take their Thai spouse with them using the Surinder Singh route.

 

Note that the above link is written with British citizens moving to the UK in mind, but the rules are the same for all member states and this judgement applies to all. Of course, once (if?) Brexit actually happens we Brits and our non EU/EEA/Swiss national family members are 99.9% certain to lose all our FoM directive rights.

[emptypockets]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 1:16 AM, beautifulthailand99 said:

The best <deleted> rssss I have ever seen were in Belgrade almost every other girl was a stunna. 

But is it available to an ageing pensioner. Look but don't touch perhaps?

[emptypockets]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 10:54 AM, seasia said:

Hi

 

I am off to there this Sunday, 4 month stay ( had originally planed 5.)

Similar to yourself, not looking for full time

I was last there about 18 months ago and prior to that had a visit every  year for about 5 years in a row.

Yes , agree 100 % on the plus points.

Have a great time. Going from Italy to Portugal. How is this relevant to Thailand?

[emptypockets]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 12:14 PM, Mavideol said:

unfortunately Thailand doesn't see it like that 555

Its not always about the money. Thailand doesn't need the pittance pensioners bring in. It is miniscule in the big picture.

In my opinion what Thailand is doing is the clean up the  long term sexpats etc. I know may people laugh about Pattaya being a family friendly destination, but what do most people see when they go there? Ageing white men on bar stools in many cases. Who is being targeted in the latest immigration rule changes? Old single men. Coincidence? I suggest not.

 

 

[seasia]

Just now, emptypockets said:

Have a great time. Going from Italy to Portugal. How is this relevant to Thailand?

No

 

My post stated going to Italy which is where I am now.Not Portugal.

 

Read the topic title "retiring to europe-portugal.

That covers both Europe and Portugal.

 

Not relevant to Thailand, Thailand is not the subject of discussion.

Understand ?

Edited August 12, 2019 by seasia

[emptypockets]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 7:40 PM, simon43 said:

In any case, having been out of the UK for so many years, it seems (upon checking), that I cannot top up my NI contributions.  One can only top up for about the previous 6 years, and I've been out of the UK for 18 years.

 

@snowballthecat, thanks for your sensible comments!  If I return to Andorra soon, I can still teach my afternoon and evening (Beijing time) students in daylight hours - it is only morning classes that would be in the middle of the night.  In any case, who's to know how long that morning teaching contract will last.....

 

To be honest, I don't really know which location to move to!  It was my 60th birthday on Saturday, and although I'm in excellent health right now, I need to be realistic and accept that this might not be the case in the future. I've lived in both countries and love them both, some for different reasons and some for the same reason (mountains, nature etc).

 

Andorra has the world's best healthcare, (according to The Lancet), and Laos probably has one of the lousiest.... (I experienced this personally in 2012 when I got a fever and worried that it might be dengue).

 

This online teaching means that one can choose to live almost anywhere in the world, and still earn a living income.... that means so many choices of wonderful locations to consider.  Portugal (the original topic of this thread) is also another option of course.

 

I need to clone myself or - as you suggest, have a little place in several countries and become a PT - perpetual tourist (again) ????

Online teaching , in my opinion, means you have no options left. Basically broke and desperate.

[snowballthecat]

 

8 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Online teaching , in my opinion, means you have no options left. Basically broke and desperate.

Derogatory  comment! Why no options left? teachers are teachers, online or offline.

Can you teach something? it is one of the most beautiful abilities. Desperates are the many trolls in these forums, who have nothing to say, let alone to teach....

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, snowballthecat said:

 

Derogatory  comment! Why no options left? teachers are teachers, online or offline.

Can you teach something? it is one of the most beautiful abilities. Desperates are the many trolls in these forums, who have nothing to say, let alone to teach....

not just derogatory, but false altogether, simon are making 100k a month and has cash stashed

[snowballthecat]

 

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I think he is referring to the EU freedom of movement directive.

 

This means that a EU/EEA/Swiss national can move to another member state as if it were their own if they are exercising an economic treaty right; which includes living off independent means such as a pension.

 

Of course, they also have the right to move to and live in the country of which they are a citizen; but what if they have a non EU/EEA/Swiss national, e.g. Thai, spouse?

 

If moving from Thailand to their home country, then the directive will not apply and their Thai spouse will need to meet the immigration requirements of that country and pay any required fees. But if moving to a member state other than that of which they are a citizen then the directive does apply so, providing they are travelling with or to join them, their Thai spouse has the same FoM rights as they do; which means meeting minimal requirements and paying no fees. 

 

Having lived and exercised their economic treaty right with their Thai spouse for a period, they could then move to their home country and take their Thai spouse with them using the Surinder Singh route.

 

Note that the above link is written with British citizens moving to the UK in mind, but the rules are the same for all member states and this judgement applies to all. Of course, once (if?) Brexit actually happens we Brits and our non EU/EEA/Swiss national family members are 99.9% certain to lose all our FoM directive rights.

 

Thank you, 7by7, for such an informative piece. I did not understand it fully, highly technical, however this FoM and Surinder Singh route applies to many in Thailand....who wish to U-turn to Europe with Thai wives....

 

Certainly it is easier to excercise your rights is the any European country rather than yours'....from my own experience, but I cannot explain why is the way it is.

 

If Brexit happens, there will be provisions for spouses of Britts abroad, I hope. 

[7by7]

6 hours ago, snowballthecat said:

<snip>

If Brexit happens, there will be provisions for spouses of Britts abroad, I hope. 

May's government said that all EU/EEA/Swiss nationals living and exercising a treaty right in the UK on the day of Brexit, and their qualifying non EU/EEA/Swiss national family members if any, will continue to be able to so do; even if they do not yet qualify for permanent residence, and will be able to obtain permanent residence in the UK once they do qualify. 

 

The EU reciprocated and stated that all British citizens exercising a treaty right and their qualifying non EU/EEA/Swiss national family members, if any, would be able to do the same.

 

Of course, as said previously, this only applies to those already exercising a treaty right up to the day of Brexit. After Brexit I believe it is 99.9% certain that Brits who wish to live in the EU/EEA or Switzerland will have to satisfy the same rules and requirements as the citizens of all other non member states; and vice versa.

[gamesgplayemail]

Has the champion relocated already ? Or maybe he finally chose China ? 555