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[rooster59]

Putin stands by China, criticises U.S., in trade, Huawei disputes

By Andrey Ostroukh and Katya Golubkova

 

Chinese President Xi Jinping (L) and Russian President Vladimir Putin leave after a session of the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF), Russia June 7, 2019. REUTERS/Maxim Shemetov

 

ST PETERSBURG (Reuters) - Aggressive U.S. tactics such as a campaign against Chinese telecoms firm Huawei will lead to trade wars - and possibly real wars - Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday, in a show of solidarity with China alongside its leader Xi Jinping.

 

In some of his strongest words on the subject, Putin accused Washington of "unbridled economic egoism". He singled out U.S. efforts to thwart a Russian gas pipeline to Europe and a U.S. campaign to persuade countries to bar Huawei, the world's biggest telecoms equipment maker, from supplying network gear.

 

His broadside, at an economic forum in St Petersburg on the same platform as Xi, was a clear show of unity with China at a time when Beijing is locked in a trade war with Washington and Moscow's own ties with the West are at a post-Cold War low.

 

"States which previously promoted free trade with honest and open competition have started speaking the language of trade wars and sanctions, of open economic raiding using arm-twisting and scare tactics, of eliminating competitors using so-called non-market methods," said Putin.

 

"Look for example at the situation around Huawei which they are trying not to just squeeze out, but to unceremoniously push out of the global market. It's already being called the first technological war of the emerging digital era in some circles."

 

The world risked slipping into an era when "general international rules will be exchanged for the laws of administrative and legal mechanisms ... which is how the United States is unfortunately behaving, spreading its jurisdiction over the whole world," added Putin.

 

"...It's a path to endless conflicts, trade wars and maybe not just trade wars. Figuratively speaking, it's a path to battles without rules that pit everyone against everyone else."

 

Putin also complained about the U.S. dollar, calling it an instrument of pressure whose role in the financial system should be reconsidered.

 

China's Xi struck a more conciliatory tone, calling for world powers to protect the global multilateral trade system.

Speaking through an interpreter, he said it was "hard to imagine a complete break" between the United States and China.

 

"We are not interested in this, and our American partners are not interested in this. President Trump is my friend and I am convinced he is also not interested in this," Xi said.

 

Russia has long complained about Western sanctions imposed on it over disputes including its behaviour in Ukraine. Moscow casts the restrictions as an attempt to contain its growth.

 

Washington has asked countries to reject Huawei technology in the development of new mobile phone networks, arguing that it could be vulnerable to Chinese eavesdropping. Huawei denies its equipment is a security risk.

 

(Additional reporting by Vladimir Soldatkin, Anastasia Lyrchikova, Tom Balmforth, Polina Ivanova, Olesya Astakhova, Daria Korsunskaya; Writing by Andrew Osborn; Editing by Peter Graff)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-06-08

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[zydeco]

Stalin & Mao = Putin & Xi

[bristolboy]

Just now, zydeco said:

Stalin & Mao = Putin & Xi

Let's not get carried away. Between them, Stalin and Mao could claim at least 40 million deaths due to persecution and/or criminal incompetence.

[lannarebirth]

41 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Let's not get carried away. Between them, Stalin and Mao could claim at least 40 million deaths due to persecution and/or criminal incompetence.

 

You could attribute at least that many to Mao alone as many peer reviewed scholars have.

[bristolboy]

7 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

You could attribute at least that many to Mao alone as many peer reviewed scholars have.

I was using the conservative figure.

[Thakkar]

Let’s see if Putin allows Huawei to supply 5G telecoms gear to Russia.

 

Is it possible that Putin is privately encouraging (ordering?) Trump to start trade wars, while publicly chastising The US for throwing its weight around and so building a consensus to decouple the world from the US Dollar and banking system control?  

[LawrenceN]

Uh-oh. Criticize Donnie? Donnie doesn't like to be criticized. I predict the end of a great bromance.

[zydeco]

Huawei, the company of choice for China, Russia, North Korea, and other would-be dictatorships. 

[Dumbastheycome]

2 hours ago, Thakkar said:

Let’s see if Putin allows Huawei to supply 5G telecoms gear to Russia.

 

Is it possible that Putin is privately encouraging (ordering?) Trump to start trade wars, while publicly chastising The US for throwing its weight around and so building a consensus to decouple the world from the US Dollar and banking system control?  

Not such a  bad thing is it?

[Ozman52]

4 hours ago, Thakkar said:

Let’s see if Putin allows Huawei to supply 5G telecoms gear to Russia.

The acid test, put your money where your mouth is. Making a huge order for Huawei 5G equipment would help mitigate US restrictions, but does anybody think it"s going to happen?

[Thakkar]

2 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

4 hours ago, Thakkar said:

Let’s see if Putin allows Huawei to supply 5G telecoms gear to Russia.

 

Is it possible that Putin is privately encouraging (ordering?) Trump to start trade wars, while publicly chastising The US for throwing its weight around and so building a consensus to decouple the world from the US Dollar and banking system control?  

Not such a  bad thing is it?

 

I’d say: be careful what you wish for. There could be worse things than US hegemony. Much better to work towards improving US behavior than willy-nilly destroying us hegemony, not knowing what will fill that vacuum.

[Dumbastheycome]

7 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

I’d say: be careful what you wish for. There could be worse things than US hegemony. Much better to work towards improving US behavior than willy-nilly destroying us hegemony, not knowing what will fill that vacuum.

Aha! Better the Devil you know... type of thing?

Maybe so but in light of the recent displays of US hegemony disregarding and overbearance of the previous formation of alliances it is not a matter of my wish.

[Thakkar]

22 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Aha! Better the Devil you know... type of thing?

Maybe so but in light of the recent displays of US hegemony disregarding and overbearance of the previous formation of alliances it is not a matter of my wish.

 

We are going off topic, but I’ll risk one response.

 

I think the above bolded is more a Trump problem than a US problem, although, granted, that’s currently a distinction without a difference.

 

Your fundamental point that the US *has* such power, and is not averse to using it, is not in dispute. The irresponsible trigger-happiness however, is very much a Trump phenomenon. The long term consequence of Trump’s actions may be a weakening of US power, especially soft power (the best kind, as it’s a lot cheaper). That may not be a bad thing, unless the vacuum is filled by even more nefarious powers like Russia, or China, or transnational corporations.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

4 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

We are going off topic, but I’ll risk one response.

 

I think the above bolded is more a Trump problem than a US problem, although, granted, that’s currently a distinction without a difference.

 

Your fundamental point that the US *has* such power, and is not averse to using it, is not in dispute. The irresponsible trigger-happiness however, is very much a Trump phenomenon. The long term consequence of Trump’s actions may be a weakening of US power, especially soft power (the best kind, as it’s a lot cheaper). That may not be a bad thing, unless the vacuum is filled by even more nefarious powers like Russia, or China, or transnational corporations.

 

The core of it is as  you mention as an incidental. It is the nefarious power of transnational corporations that provide the primary motivations. Another entity monitors  the currencies. As deemed most powerful the US is simply a safe haven in effect. Which Trump as an agent to is potentially creating a  globally unwelcome very possible challenge to. Trump is a dangerous phenomenon.

 

[BestB]

6 hours ago, Thakkar said:

Let’s see if Putin allows Huawei to supply 5G telecoms gear to Russia.

 

Is it possible that Putin is privately encouraging (ordering?) Trump to start trade wars, while publicly chastising The US for throwing its weight around and so building a consensus to decouple the world from the US Dollar and banking system control?  

Not only allow it but Huawei purchased Russian Face ID software company and planning to move some manufacturing to Russia to avoid high tariffs.

[BestB]

I am kind of split on this whole saga.

 

On one hand I agree with what trump is doing as Chinese goods have taken over the world , on the other hand this sanctions makes countries self reliant and more independent.

 

Russia was cut off from master/visa , so they built their own.

 

sanctions on Russia made their own suppliers grow to replace imports.

 

both countries have been buying more gold and less reliant on US$

 

China started to buy more Russian gas and oil so for Russia this is win win.

 

So it’s rather interesting to watch how it will develop and what will come of it.

[Thakkar]

5 minutes ago, BestB said:

Not only allow it but Huawei purchased Russian Face ID software company and planning to move some manufacturing to Russia to avoid high tariffs.

 

How is Huawei buying Russian SW and “planning to move some manufacturing to Russia” proof of Russia buying Huawei 5G equipment?

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

 

I’d say: be careful what you wish for. There could be worse things than US hegemony. Much better to work towards improving US behavior than willy-nilly destroying us hegemony, not knowing what will fill that vacuum.

according to brexiteers that would be the UK

[BestB]

5 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

How is Huawei buying Russian SW and “planning to move some manufacturing to Russia” proof of Russia buying Huawei 5G equipment?

Proof of Russian cooperation and allowing Huawei not only to buy Russian companies but also set up plants in Russia. No reason to think Russia will not be allowing 5 G

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, BestB said:

I am kind of split on this whole saga.

 

On one hand I agree with what trump is doing as Chinese goods have taken over the world , on the other hand this sanctions makes countries self reliant and more independent.

 

Russia was cut off from master/visa , so they built their own.

 

sanctions on Russia made their own suppliers grow to replace imports.

 

both countries have been buying more gold and less reliant on US$

 

China started to buy more Russian gas and oil so for Russia this is win win.

 

So it’s rather interesting to watch how it will develop and what will come of it.

It's not a bad idea, make the world, ie each country, self reliant again and tell Trump to stick his American 'culture'.

Edited June 8, 2019 by soalbundy

[IAMHERE]

Has Putin moved Russian factories to China? Do the Chinese force Russia to turn over trade secrets or industrial knowhow ?  I'm not sure I'd trust Putin if he did anything but backup China.

[Ozman52]

41 minutes ago, BestB said:

Proof of Russian cooperation and allowing Huawei not only to buy Russian companies but also set up plants in Russia. No reason to think Russia will not be allowing 5 G

Yeah right! Half the western world is worried that Huawei spies for China and Putin will invite them to set up their 5G. That's because the Russians aren't as paranoid as us. 

[BestB]

29 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Yeah right! Half the western world is worried that Huawei spies for China and Putin will invite them to set up their 5G. That's because the Russians aren't as paranoid as us. 

Firstly it’s not half the world but US only and mind you with no proof what so ever . 

[BestB]

57 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Has Putin moved Russian factories to China? Do the Chinese force Russia to turn over trade secrets or industrial knowhow ?  I'm not sure I'd trust Putin if he did anything but backup China.

Do not need to, Russian taxes are minimal , so are the productions costs 

 

Russian taxes are only 20% though can be reduced to 13.5% for some companies 

[Ozman52]

13 minutes ago, BestB said:

Firstly it’s not half the world but US only and mind you with no proof what so ever . 

And Australia, and NZ, and Taiwan, and Japan. UK is restricting Huawei to non-core, Germany and France increasing security measures to prevent "back-dooring". I very much doubt Canada will be doing a lot of business with Huawei. You might also note that I said "western world".

[Tug]

Not surprising Donald has split us off from our allies pissed off the rest why wouldn’t the totalirans band against us in our weakened decided state?

[Jack100]

I wonder if I should renew my Kapersky Internet security package ?

I have things I wouldnt like my Thai wife to know !

[BestB]

2 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

And Australia, and NZ, and Taiwan, and Japan. UK is restricting Huawei to non-core, Germany and France increasing security measures to prevent "back-dooring". I very much doubt Canada will be doing a lot of business with Huawei. You might also note that I said "western world".

All forced by US

[nobodysfriend]

13 hours ago, BestB said:

I am kind of split on this whole saga.

 

On one hand I agree with what trump is doing as Chinese goods have taken over the world , on the other hand this sanctions makes countries self reliant and more independent.

 

Russia was cut off from master/visa , so they built their own.

 

sanctions on Russia made their own suppliers grow to replace imports.

 

both countries have been buying more gold and less reliant on US$

 

China started to buy more Russian gas and oil so for Russia this is win win.

 

So it’s rather interesting to watch how it will develop and what will come of it.

The USA is on the way to isolate itself from the world . Americas reputation has gone down for a while now , ( spying on other 'befriended ' countries , not honouring established contracts , trying to control every other country ...) . Trump tries to make America ' great ' again by making every other country smaller ... that will lead to conflicts and even , as Putin rightly said , possible war . Russia and China in trade war against the US and backing the Iran at the same time ... dangerous .

More and more are becoming tired of Americas self - declared ' supremacy ' .

Edited June 9, 2019 by nobodysfriend

[JulesMad]

I am not a big fan of Putin (not even a little fan), but he is very intelligent and smart (ex-KGB). That might make him more dangerous than america's super-idiot and/or Xi. Putin is playing them both...