UK's Corbyn to back second Brexit referendum - The Times

[sawadee1947]

Good man, right decision, hopefully not too late. 

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because the democratic process came to a shuddering halt on the morning of the referendum result?!

Oops, back into Bruce Forsyth mode, good blame, good blame.????????????

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Oops, back into Bruce Forsyth mode, good blame, good blame.????????????

Where’s the blame in recognizing the democratic process as a continuous... erm... what’s the word.....process?

 

You don’t get the cuddly toy for that effort vogie.

[JonnyF]

I'd always associated Corbyn with Karl Marx.

 

I'm starting to think he's more like Groucho.

 

[jesimps]

4 hours ago, pegman said:

Finally someone who will attempt to stop the insanity. 

He and the rest of the losing side are the insanity.

[jesimps]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Yes you keep banding these meaningless figures about for some reason, but if it gives you some solace, so be it.

I don't think I've ever agreed with any of his posts on any subject.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Farage needs to find support somewhere, at the last outing 43,000 (over 80% of former Leave voters) went AWOL.

Lost in the post maybe?

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Where’s the blame in recognizing the democratic process as a continuous... erm... what’s the word.....process?

 

You don’t get the cuddly toy for that effort vogie.

33 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because the democratic process came to a shuddering halt on the morning of the referendum result?!

But can't you see the futility of that argument, we may as well not bother voting if people feel that is in their power to overturn it the very next day. Do you think it's democratic for people to ignore democratic decisions, that would be the end of democracy as we know it.

Should the the majority of the country vote and win, do you think it is right to ignore the wishes of the majority just because you don't like it.

[jesimps]

41 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Good man, right decision, hopefully not too late. 

Of course it's too late. three years too late!

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Nothing beautiful in snarling, resentful Brexiteerland.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Tosh +++. Sample these Brexit posts over three years and see where most of the snarling and resentment comes from. That's only majority that remainers have won. 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

More Labour voters will be joining Nigels Brexit Party now, well done Mr Eurosceptic Jeremy Corbyn. ☺️☺️☺️

Agree. I was just thinking the same thing. Tory TV was less than convincing last night too! 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

"It's between those who wish to remain in a single state, one culture, one government Europe and those who desire local individual governments and keeping the beauty of the diverse cultures of the European nations."

No, it is not. The culture argument is just a flawed argument racists use.

This racist line is just a false argument that leavers use.  

[damascase]

4 hours ago, Alan Michael said:

For better or for worse and which ever side you are on; Brexit vs parliament is the biggest exercise in democracy the world has ever experienced.

It's between those who wish to remain in a single state, one culture, one government Europe and those who desire local individual governments and keeping the beauty of the diverse cultures of the European nations.

If you really think that at present (‘remain’) you are in a single state, one culture, one government Europe, you are beyond help.

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, damascase said:

If you really think that at present (‘remain’) you are in a single state, one culture, one government Europe, you are beyond help.

The EU is only cosmetically concerned about culture but the single state/one government is the aim. Not there yet, of course, but getting "ever-closer". The majority in the UK don't see that as a good thing and so that is the reason for the leave vote.

Edited June 19, 2019 by nauseus

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The EU is only cosmetically concerned about culture but the single state/one government is the aim. Not there yet, of course, but getting "ever-closer". The majority in the UK don't see that as a good thing and so that is the reason for the leave vote.

Somebody else who thinks they know the single reason for the Leave vote.

 

Or was that you the last time but with a different single reason for the Leave vote?

 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

change its Brexit policy and support a second referendum in all circumstances

 

So what's that now, the 67th time they've changed their policy on Brexit in the last 2 & 1/2 years!? ????

 

He's the definition of a 'populist' and a 'turncoat'.

 

Spent the last 30 years of his political career openly criticising the EU and espousing Euro-sceptical views, now that he's in charge of the Red brigade, he does a massive flip-flop. What a <deleted>.

 

Oct 31st = OUT. Fingers firmly crossed.

Edited June 19, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 hours ago, Alan Michael said:

For better or for worse and which ever side you are on; Brexit vs parliament is the biggest exercise in democracy the world has ever experienced.

It's between those who wish to remain in a single state, one culture, one government Europe and those who desire local individual governments and keeping the beauty of the diverse cultures of the European nations.

 

46 minutes ago, damascase said:

If you really think that at present (‘remain’) you are in a single state, one culture, one government Europe, you are beyond help.

“single state, one culture, one government” = little England 

 

“local individual governments and (...) the beauty of the diverse cultures of the European nations” = EU

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

Corbyn is a leaver...

 

He has deliberately waited until it is to late, he has scuttled any chance of Labour having any influence on a second referendum.

 

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don't think Corbyn's views on Brexit are the issue, rather he's simply not very bright. 

 

He's sat opposite the weakest PM in living memory heading a minority government and he's been completely unable to defeat her or her government. 

 

He needs to step aside, and let someone up to the job take over. 

 

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Labour's stance on anything depends on which side of the bed Corbyn gets out of on any given morning ! 

 I agree with Chomper he's simply not very bright. That is the key to the LP failure to put glove on the worst Tory party since forever. He had a private schooling paid for by his middle class parents, and came out with one A level (So I read). He has been in the clutches of Seamus Milne, and Andrew Murray in his office, plus Unite's Looney Len, and party chair Ian Laverty. There has been a Stalinist purge of many of those in the LP who did not worship him, but it is failing, as the voters deserting Labour have forced even Corbyn to come to grips with reality. The likes of Milne and Laverty are still desperately pretending that it was mostly LP leave voters that deserted them. The statistics are pretty clear, LP lost the vast majority of their votes to the Libs, the Greens, and in Scotland to the SNP. Whether they will ever get them back is questionable. 

 

The regular line here from Brexiteers and the far left is the same (They have so so much in common with their quasi-religious approach to politics) . In their imagination there is a vast army of loyal LP supporters in the North etc who will desert Labour. The problem, since Thatcher, is that all over England,  the "Traditional" working class has been deserting Labour; around half already didn't vote Labour long before the referendum. Of those that still did vote Labour, many have gone to UKIP aka Brexit Party ALREADY. This "Vast army" no longer exists. The reality of where the LP really stands to lose votes has become impossible to ignore. That is why Corbyn got a total roasting at the MPs meeting the other evening. 

 

Actually IMHO Corbyn is not a bad man. He has strong principles and genuinely wants to help the disavantaged. He is idealistic, if naive, certainly a long way from the nose in the trough politics of many Tory MPs. Painting him as a Commie or Marxist is a standard Tory Tabloid ploy, happily adopted by many who should think a little more. Corbyn is not numerate, and I doubt he even really understands Marxism, just a left winger in the Benn mode without the grey matter, and no, they may have some stupid policies, but dismantling the UK economy if they get into power, won't happen. The dismantling of the UK economy is being achieved by Brexiteers, over 1 Trillion pounds worth of business has fled the UK already.

[Loiner]

Remainers, Labour and now Corbyn must be convinced that they can rig another referendum properly. After their ballot stuffing and postal vote fraud successes they believe they have it in the bag.
Pity for them that a second referendum ain't gonna happen anyway. 

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Farage needs to find support somewhere, at the last outing 43,000 (over 80% of former Leave voters) went AWOL.

How many more times do I need to tell you this before it sinks in? I'll repeat:

 

A by-election has very different dynamics to a binary referendum. You just cannot compare data from the two. 

 

But if you insist on doing this, then let's look at it another way. Over 34k people in Peterborough voted to remain in 2016. In the by-election the Lib Dems got just 4,159 votes, and the Greens got just 1,035 votes.

 

So using your logic, where is this huge increase for Remain?

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The Hard Left with which Corbyn is associated, has always been anti-EU, so no surprise that Corbyn has dragged his feet throughout. The flip to a second referendum primarily driven by big loss of votes to the Lib Dems, so opportunist rather than conviction driven. Corbyn the dog that doesn't bark.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

For once I agree with you. I think he may have also come to the conclusion that a 2nd ref is highly unlikely now, so he can get kudos for calling for it whilst knowing it's not going to happen. If it does happen he'll be in a real mess. He'd have to campaign for either Remain or Leave, so he'll have to finally lay his cards on the table. 

[mommysboy]

7 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

-5m votes

Won't be that much, and anyway Labour would gain ardent remainers.

[BobBKK]

Better late than never I suppose.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Somebody else who thinks they know the single reason for the Leave vote.

 

Or was that you the last time but with a different single reason for the Leave vote?

 

Well, as a leaver, I'm going to have a better idea why people voted out. 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Benroon said:

The bottom line is people who voted to take the 6th largest economy in the world into the unknown is because they thought it would turn the UK white again, but haven't got the cajones to admit it,  but didn't have a clue what they were voting for. One enlightened guy I spoke to said he was sick of his town 'being like Bombay' - he looked a bit miffed when I pointed out India wasn't in the EU. Jingoism at its worst.

 

Hands up Brixiteers who knowingly voted leave with full knowledge of the cross European medical research projects - one of the biggest successes of integration. With the UK suffering absolutely shameful cancer statistics, we are now going to cut off European co-operation to address that. Brilliant European research (with UK scientists playing their part) that we may no longer have access to or have to pay for. Medicines held up at borders. Retesting, and delay, of life saving drugs in the UK as EU testing will no longer apply. Can't see many hands !

 

 

The bottom line is that your "unknown" is known because most nations in the world, with populations of all races and colours, exist and trade outside the EU and do OK. Again, a remainer flashes the racist card as a convenient but offensive and wrong aid to their argument. 

 

Pan European medical research projects and others are fine - they could easily continue or exist without the EU - cooperation like this does not need political control and conditions. 

[Brigand]

Problem with Corbyn and his cronies (apart from being far left lunatics) is they want out too so they can enact their socialist policies, which will be super hard to do if you stay in the EU as the EU has foreseen this sort of stuff and made it really hard for such 70s socialism types to pull their nonsense with EU rules and laws ... hence the dithering as Corbyn probably thought he'd let someone else take us out, then no blame on him, and he can then grab power afterwards. However, looks like this strat has failed and they need to pony-up their principles and change tact to try get power ... but I think the boat has already sailed and they left it too late. What the UK will end up with, if a GE is called, is a Brexit Party and Conservative coalition.