Thailand Blacklisted From Receiving New AIDS Drugs

[longway]

I am shocked by the degree of hatred that Khun? has for thailand. I hope that one day you will feel better within yourself.

To address some of the more rational points made by him and other posters

If the cure was in a plant it Thailand it would never be found by a thai most likely.

if u had the slightest knowledge about the country in which you supposedly live you would know that thailand (thailand is a modern creation but you get my point) has a long tradition in herbal medicine and there is a great deal of research going into looking into tradional thai herbal medicines within thai institutions.

My biggest problem with the Thai approach is the lack of charity among the Thai people. Wealthy Thais seldom donate to chariatable causes.

Thais are very generous, this supposed lack of charity is just a myth. This is not a personal observation you are just repeating what someone else told you. Check this link.

Thai charitable contributions

And the relevant quote from the link:In addition, the amounts donated to charitable causes are substantial in

local terms. In Thailand, Philippines, and Indonesia, for example, the average

amount given per capita was reported to be US$546, $400, and $123,

respectively. Restated in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP), which provides

a more meaningful international comparison, these amounts convert

to the equivalent of US$1610, $1385, and $538, respectively.

With few exceptions AIDs is a preventable disease.

Thailand has taken considerable efforts in educating the country about the AIDs issue. The rate of infection has dropped dramatically. This is the first reasonable link I found. However there are est to be 1 million people in the coutry living with HIV it is a crisis and Thailand it competely within thailands rights to take the course it did.

AIDS prevention

I like it. I like it. no, actually, I love it. I love it. before you know it, my dream will come true. all the jobs and factories will go back to america providing jobs to americans.

<deleted> get over yourself

[Khun ?]

"There is still an opportunity to prevent resurgence, to nip it in the bud, but to do that the government has to focus on prevention, and that isn't happening."

Household surveys are real accurate I bet. I know I always give at the office.

Nothing about it could take 5 x what Thailand gives for aids treatment

to get a aids drug to market for a drug company.

Do they wait for a company to bare the cost and then use that to undercut and make their own

abstract which may end up causing more harm than good.

Edited March 18, 2007 by Khun ?

[jdinasia]

why manufacture and research drugs if you cannot make a living off it, and something like Aids

which is for the most part irresponsible now days, Tell that to the wives of Thai guys (or any guy that goes to hookers ... gets infected and brings it home

specially in a country like Thailand.

They can hoard billions in foreign currency but then cannot help out their poor for being irresponsible.

All drug companies need to stop selling and providing drugs and research to Thailand.

Apparently you are neither IN Thailand or have family here if you think this

Let them figure it out themselves. If the cure was in a plant it Thailand it would never be found by a thai most likely.

I do not feel I should have to work and pay taxes so thailand can have cheap drugs for problems that are mainly self induced.

If you are argueing taxes you can't argue profits ... if you argue profits you can't argue taxes .... if Tax money went into producing the drugs <or any source of public or ngo funding>

I want to be a lazy muck and have others pay for my stupidity also so none of us will have drugs if we all do the same.

Since public funding DOES go into the research into these meds ... why would you CARE that a drug company that has already profitted in the BILLIONS of dollars loses a little money they would NEVER have gotten anyways when a poor country LEGALLY busts their patent!

Think this through some more!

[Khun ?]

Drug companies have been laying off thousands of people and losing money in recent years as well as investors.

When governments steal their property and research it is wrong.

Is it ok for someone to write a book then someone change some words and republish it cheaper.

Public is investors and without them you will not have these great drugs that save lifes.

Aids and many medical problems are terrible but we don't make doctors work free.

Thailand has been given thousands of advancements that make life better and they have done

nothing but gained from this privilege. Billions have been given to countries helping the poor

which I am sure all of us have given $100's of thousand in taxes for this as a individual person.

When a government that has benefitted so much from western companies and governments, theft

is a bit to far or lose the privilege.

Thailand can choose to do business with these companies or not and go it alone.

Many more lifes will be lost without these drug companies and the research they provide.

Nothing is free in life and little is fair, specially for the poor.

[jdinasia]

Drug companies have been laying off thousands of people and losing money in recent years as well as investors.

When governments steal their property and research it is wrong.

Is it ok for someone to write a book then someone change some words and republish it cheaper.

Public is investors and without them you will not have these great drugs that save lifes.

Aids and many medical problems are terrible but we don't make doctors work free.

Thailand has been given thousands of advancements that make life better and they have done

nothing but gained from this privilege. Billions have been given to countries helping the poor

which I am sure all of us have given $100's of thousand in taxes for this as a individual person.

When a government that has benefitted so much from western companies and governments, theft

is a bit to far or lose the privilege.

Thailand can choose to do business with these companies or not and go it alone.

Many more lifes will be lost without these drug companies and the research they provide.

Nothing is free in life and little is fair, specially for the poor.

LOL

didn't answer ANYTHING from the above .....

but again ... you are wrong ... what has happened in Thailand is 100% legal!

[nick2k]

Drug companies have been laying off thousands of people and losing money in recent years as well as investors.

When governments steal their property and research it is wrong.

Is it ok for someone to write a book then someone change some words and republish it cheaper.

Public is investors and without them you will not have these great drugs that save lifes.

Aids and many medical problems are terrible but we don't make doctors work free.

Thailand has been given thousands of advancements that make life better and they have done

nothing but gained from this privilege. Billions have been given to countries helping the poor

which I am sure all of us have given $100's of thousand in taxes for this as a individual person.

When a government that has benefitted so much from western companies and governments, theft

is a bit to far or lose the privilege.

Thailand can choose to do business with these companies or not and go it alone.

Many more lifes will be lost without these drug companies and the research they provide.

Nothing is free in life and little is fair, specially for the poor.

LOL

didn't answer ANYTHING from the above .....

but again ... you are wrong ... what has happened in Thailand is 100% legal!

hey. I am 100% with you on this point. thailand has every right to reproduce the drugs.

..when the stupid pharmaceutical companies brought their business over here. ..builted a factory here. ..taught the thais how to produce the drugs. they GAVE the thais the right to reproduce the drugs.

it is ALL legal because the factory is on their land.

stupid foreign companies.

..BUT it is ALSO totally legal for the foreign companies to NOT to have to provide in the future - new drugs which could benefit thailand.

in fact, the usa could tax the hel_l out of thai exports into america if they desire to do so. TOTALLY LEGAL since there is no free trade agreement between the two countries.

what goes around comes around.

[Pepe']

Apparently our friend doesn't realize the Owen Clinic does have a website. It even hasd its own webmaster, " Mark is from San Diego and has been with the Clinic since 1998. He is the author and webmaster of the Owen Clinic website ". Owen Clinic is part of the University of California San Diego Medical Center. Information on the Owen Clinic can be found here:

Interesting in all the years I had been involved with the Owen Clinic I never looked at that site.

I have one last request. If you contact Dr Joseph Caperna, (a close pesonal friend of mine), hematology/oncology at <email address deleted> and he confirms that there is a physician that had spent years seeing patients at the Owen clinic that is married to a Thai women from Bangkok, will you aplologize?

I don't want to give my name as some of you, you include seem to be very mean spirited individuals that like trouble.

Edited March 18, 2007 by endure
Email address deleted - forum rules do not permit email addresses in posts - Please use PM

[Khun ?]

Abbot and all the rest of the businesses are 100 % right to not do business unless under controlled administration of their product. Investors of companies that allow it need to close down the companies

with any means possible.

Nothing else requires a answer

I am not concerned with someones infidelty that causes medical problems, the family needs to deal with it. Shoot him or her before it happens again maybe.

[jdinasia]

Abbot and all the rest of the businesses are 100 % right to not do business unless under controlled administration of their product. Investors of companies that allow it need to close down the companies

with any means possible.

Nothing else requires a answer

I am not concerned with someones infidelty that causes medical problems, the family needs to deal with it. Shoot him or her before it happens again maybe.

again ... obviously you are not in Thailand or have family here if you stand by the previous post ..... and again ... Thailand lived up to international law 100%

[solo siam]

Khun? and Nick2k

How on Earth do you think that the USA and the West got to be rich? by supplying themselves with products? Doesn't make any sense, countries need each other, only have to look at N.Korea, Cuba etc... to see that.

You guys love to spout commercialism, well a huge part of that is supply, demand and cost/competition. The US just couldn't compete, it really is as simple as that.

Why should 1 million people suffer because a couple of companies want US prices for their drugs in the third world with a PPP of about 10% of the USA..

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

My biggest problem with the Thai approach is the lack of charity among the Thai people. Wealthy Thais seldom donate to chariatable causes.

Thais are very generous, this supposed lack of charity is just a myth. This is not a personal observation you are just repeating what someone else told you. Check this link.

With few exceptions AIDs is a preventable disease.

Thailand has taken considerable efforts in educating the country about the AIDs issue. The rate of infection has dropped dramatically. This is the first reasonable link I found. However there are est to be 1 million people in the coutry living with HIV it is a crisis and Thailand it competely within thailands rights to take the course it did.

In the first instance I should have further clarified the statement. Thais are in fact very good at making merit. Wealthy Thais in particular like to have their name associated with a new temple. Donations for basic human needs is another matter particularly among the wealthy here. Thailand has 2 billionaires on the newest Forbes list. If one of them contributed the way Warren Buffet has a lot could be accomplished. Buffet has a lower profile than Bill Gates but in fact has contributed a far greater share of his personal wealth. Even if Thai billionares emulate Bill Gates a great deal could be done here.

As to Thailand's AIDs prevention programs, I never said the government has not done well in promoting AIDs prevention. With the exception of prevention among IV drug users, the only class of AIDs victims that has not seen improvement, Thailand is a model for the rest of the world. I was speaking in general about individual responsibilty. In most instances AIDs is preventable if the individual takes appropriate precautions. Pre-natal transmission, accidental needle sticks among healthcare providers and a few other situations are the only intances where transmission cannot be prevented throught proper precautions. To misunderstanding, there are instances among healthcare providers where they have been accidently stuck by a colleague during a procedure. I've been there when with a non-responsive patient who suddenly convulses during an attempted IV start knocking the arm of the backup nurse acausing her to stck another nurse. It happened so fast it almost seemed unreal. Even then, the risk of contracting AIDs is only about .5%. With the newer protocols suggesting a course of anti-retrovirals immediately following accidental exposure the liklihood of contracting the disease from an accidental stick has probably dropped further. That being said, the individual who knoews how AIDs is spread and chooses to take proper precautions is rolling dice. Unfortunatley you see that a lot with young people both straight and gay. The youthful feeling of invincibility gets in the way of sound thinking and risks are taken that may ultimately result in contracting the disease.

Edited March 19, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[garro]

My biggest problem with the Thai approach is the lack of charity among the Thai people. Wealthy Thais seldom donate to chariatable causes.

Thais are very generous, this supposed lack of charity is just a myth. This is not a personal observation you are just repeating what someone else told you. Check this link.

With few exceptions AIDs is a preventable disease.

Thailand has taken considerable efforts in educating the country about the AIDs issue. The rate of infection has dropped dramatically. This is the first reasonable link I found. However there are est to be 1 million people in the coutry living with HIV it is a crisis and Thailand it competely within thailands rights to take the course it did.

In the first instance I should have further clarified the statement. Thais are in fact very good at making merit. Wealthy Thais in particular like to have their name associated with a new temple. Donations for basic human needs is another matter particularly among the wealthy here. Thailand has 2 billionaires on the newest Forbes list. If one of them contributed the way Warren Buffet has a lot could be accomplished. Buffet has a lower profile than Bill Gates but in fact has contributed a far greater share of his personal wealth. Even if Thai billionares emulate Bill Gates a great deal could be done here.

As to Thailand's AIDs prevention programs, I never said the government has not done well in promoting AIDs prevention. With the exception of prevention among IV drug users, the only class of AIDs victims that has not seen improvement, Thailand is a model for the rest of the world. I was speaking in general about individual responsibilty. In most instances AIDs is preventable if the individual takes appropriate precautions. Pre-natal transmission, accidental needle sticks among healthcare providers and a few other situations are the only intances where transmission cannot be prevented throught proper precautions. To misunderstanding, there are instances among healthcare providers where they have been accidently stuck by a colleague during a procedure. I've been there when with a non-responsive patient who suddenly convulses during an attempted IV start knocking the arm of the backup nurse acausing her to stck another nurse. It happened so fast it almost seemed unreal. Even then, the risk of contracting AIDs is only about .5%. With the newer protocols suggesting a course of anti-retrovirals immediately following accidental exposure the liklihood of contracting the disease from an accidental stick has probably dropped further. That being said, the individual who knoews how AIDs is spread and chooses to take proper precautions is rolling dice. Unfortunatley you see that a lot with young people both straight and gay. The youthful feeling of invincibility gets in the way of sound thinking and risks are taken that may ultimately result in contracting the disease.

Why do you keep on talking about prevention?

The drug in question is used by people who already have HIV.

Wearing condoms or avoiding moronic nurses with needles will not help them.

[longway]

In the first instance I should have further clarified the statement. Thais are in fact very good at making merit. Wealthy Thais in particular like to have their name associated with a new temple. Donations for basic human needs is another matter

you are wrong about this. it is very much a part of thai life to give to orphanages, old peoples homes and so on. yes they are generally religious donations.

I never said the government has not done well in promoting AIDs prevention.

then perhaps you should have said so. thers alot of people saying that thais are being lazy, stupid and irresponsible. in fact they have not, the thai hiv prevention programme is the best of its kind in the world. yes the young people here are taking risks, but to claim that thailand as a society has been irrresponsible is ludicrous.

and again despite this the fact remains there is a crisis.

there are constant claims that thais have been given things. no they have not been given anything. thailand competes with every other country in the world on the free market, (almost) nothing is given. it is here because either thais have paid for it at market or premium rates or because multinationals think they can make money.

[longway]

"There is still an opportunity to prevent resurgence, to nip it in the bud, but to do that the government has to focus on prevention, and that isn't happening."

wake up

Household surveys are real accurate I bet. I know I always give at the office.

thais are generous face facts

Nothing about it could take 5 x what Thailand gives for aids treatment

to get a aids drug to market for a drug company.

Do they wait for a company to bare the cost and then use that to undercut and make their own

abstract which may end up causing more harm than good.

this is not what happened they were in negotiations with abbotts for a long time. i agree its a controversial decision and has large implications. however pharma companies do abuse their position as monopoly suppliers. there is a need to make reforms. pharma companies take advantage of publicly funded research themselves.

before you talked about your investments, do you realise that part of the reason why your stocks have been rising is because companies choose to produce their goods in thailand.

just stop the pointless hating. you said some very nasty things for absolutely no reason before. get a grip on yourself.

Edited March 19, 2007 by longway

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

to claim that thailand as a society has been irrresponsible is ludicrous.

Never said that. I will repeat that Thais don't donate that much to address basic human needs. My wife and I, though not daily, take excess food donated to a temple and distribute it to retirement homes or orphanages. According to my wife, if we didn't the excess food would be discarded. My wife is Thai but other Thais involved with this Temple do not seem to find the time to make this effort though they will donate food and money on a regular basis.

And again, regarding the wealthy or well off in Thai society, I have seen no evidence that they have anything resembling a social conscience. Where are the well funded, transparently managed foundations organized by Thailand's wealthiest? Prem's foundation works as do the Royal projects. But as to Thai billionaires and multi-millionaires, were is the social conscience?

Edited March 19, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[Dupont]

Drug companies have been laying off thousands of people and losing money in recent years as well as investors.

When governments steal their property and research it is wrong.

Is it ok for someone to write a book then someone change some words and republish it cheaper.

Public is investors and without them you will not have these great drugs that save lifes.

Aids and many medical problems are terrible but we don't make doctors work free.

Thailand has been given thousands of advancements that make life better and they have done

nothing but gained from this privilege. Billions have been given to countries helping the poor

which I am sure all of us have given $100's of thousand in taxes for this as a individual person.

When a government that has benefitted so much from western companies and governments, theft

is a bit to far or lose the privilege.

Thailand can choose to do business with these companies or not and go it alone.

Many more lifes will be lost without these drug companies and the research they provide.

Nothing is free in life and little is fair, specially for the poor.

LOL

didn't answer ANYTHING from the above .....

but again ... you are wrong ... what has happened in Thailand is 100% legal!

As for legality, its 100% legal for the drugs companies not to sell their wares where they think somebody may take them over. Whats the beef?

What Thaksin did was mostly legal as he changed the law and made it legal.

JDinasia. TV is a forum, and we don't have to stoop to answer every trite statement put up by every other poster. Its our opinions, these are ours, you have yours. That ok?

So many emotive anti west outburst on here, its getting like a college campus at election time.

Every thing that needs saying has been said in this thread so i'm bowing out now. It was a very informative post in parts. One of the best I have read on here.

It was also a sad endictment of how many westerners happily live here having benefitted from the evils of western society , yet choose to slate the system that made them rich.

[Aujuba]

It would be nice if people stopped denying reality. Even the Internet lives in a box. The truth is not here today. We can't talk freely about many things. It just hypocracy. I guess its the way of the world. Everything stays the same and the same people or types of people run things without a speck of love for humanity.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

avoiding moronic nurses with needles will not help them.

Obviously you have little knowledge of the realities of medical practice. There was no need to restrain a non-responsive patient. In fact restraint without a physicians order and well documented proof of need is illegal and can result in criminal charges being filed against the nurse or other practitioner. I also know of instances of physicans sticking nurses in the ER or OR. Lab techs also have their share of needle stick injuries.

Edited March 19, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

As to the comment about Wikipedia and aspirin, I supose you wouldn't beleive a scholarly paper from McGill University either.

"

Bayer began in 1863 as Friedrich Bayer & Co., a dye-manufacturing plant in Germany. When the dye industry began to wane during the late 1880s, Bayer made the transition into the more active and lucrative sector of pharmaceuticals by developing, producing, and marketing phenacetin (acetophenetidin) from a dye-making by-product. The company's switch from dyes to pharmaceuticals was so rapid that the first lots of the drug were alkylated in make-shift containers--empty beer bottles wrapped in towels--before the company decided to invest in suitable equipment and proper facilities for its production (6). However, despite the change in the products being manufactured, Bayer retained many of the methods used previously in the sale of dyestuffs in highly competitive markets: sales representatives, advertisements in trade journals, and the use of patents and trade names. As McTavish, a noted medical historian, remarks:

By restricting its market to the pharmaceutical and medical professions, the chemical industry avoided the unseemly trappings of the nostrum trade and established itself as a member of the 'ethical' fraternity (7).

From then on, McTavish affirms, "[drug production] took place in an industrial setting. Drugs were commodities similar in most respects to any other commodity: they were manufactured for profit" (7). During the 1890's, Carl Duisberg and other key figures at Bayer were busily involved in reorganizing the company, in setting up pharmaceutical laboratories for the development and standardization of drugs, and, most importantly, in establishing links with the medical world."

And,

"In his article published in the Archiv fur die Gesamte Physiologie in 1899, Dreser begins by describing the unsatisfactory nature of the drugs then available, thereby creating the need for new alternatives:

In many diseases related to common cold, the use of sodium salicylate would be definitely much more popular if it would not provoke strong rejection by its disgusting sweet taste which can be corrected only to some extent (18).

Dreser then suggests:

Pharmacological chemistry should develop synthetically a new preparation which would avoid in addition to the disgusting sweet taste other undesirable characteristics such as the overloading of the stomach. After resorption, the active salicylate should be rapidly split off from the new product.

These improvements are precisely what Dreser claims to have achieved through the synthesis of aspirin. First, the taste was refined by masking the free phenolic hydroxyl group of salicylic acid through substitution of the hydrogen atom with a methyl group. To prove that aspirin is reabsorbed and cleaved into salicylic acid, Dreser cites the work of the German scientist Lesnik published in the Archiv fur Experimentelle Pathologie und Pharmakologie to maintain that the increase of nitrogen in the urine "could be due only to the nitrogen-containing metabolic product of salicylic acid . . . also clearly shown by aspirin."

Dreser then carried out comparative studies of aspirin and other salicylates to demonstrate that the former was less noxious and more beneficial than the latter. For instance, he tested the sodium salt of aspirin and sodium salicylate on normal rabbits and on cold-blooded animals, which, to his mind, "showed clearly that aspirin is less poisonous than salicylic acid." Dreser also tested aspirin on the most fine and delicate tissues, such as the gills of fish, to further demonstrate the gentleness of the compound. Finally, to put to rest any fears that aspirin might depress the heart, he conducted experiments to show that sodium salicylate decreased cardiac output, whereas the sodium salt of aspirin increased it. Dreser concludes his article as follows:

Summing up the most important pharmacologic characteristics of aspirin we may suggest the following: The aspirin has a more pleasant harsh acidic taste than sodium salicylate before resorption. It is also more protective to the stomach wall according to the above experiments. It is very advantageous, furthermore, that aspirin is split by the gastric hydrochloric acid only to a small extent (0.2%). Differences are evident between aspirin and sodium salicylate also after resorption... (18).

By publishing these findings in a physiological journal, Dreser was able to provide a "scientific" and "objective" account of this new compound as a potentially powerful pharmaceutical product with few side-effects. At the same time, he was one of the top employees at Bayer, and would therefore benefit personally from the success that his pharmacological analysis had brought upon aspirin."

http://www.med.mcgill.ca/mjm/issues/v02n02/aspirin.html

Edited March 19, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[Pepe']

Apparently our friend doesn't realize the Owen Clinic does have a website. It even hasd its own webmaster, " Mark is from San Diego and has been with the Clinic since 1998. He is the author and webmaster of the Owen Clinic website ". Owen Clinic is part of the University of California San Diego Medical Center. Information on the Owen Clinic can be found here:

-------------------------

I spoke with my friend Joe Caperna about the nonsense going on here.

Why would I say I practiced at the Owen if it wasn't true?

Anyway here is his email <pm'd to you> forward it to your buddy Prakakong.

You find him listed under hematolgy/oncology. He said he would answer your email but asked me why I'm even bothering.

Funny thing is he said in 15 years at the Owen he had never looked at the website either.

Suggesting that I was lying about giving years of my life to treating AIDS patients at UCSD while never drawing a salary was just to much to swallow.

After you contact Dr Caperna a simple public apology will do.

I am done with this as spending valuable time trying to convince you of what is true is a total waste.

I'll wait for your apology.

That goes for you too Prakakong.

How dare you call me a liar.

I've had it with this nonsense.

You can fight amongst yourselves.

If you don't verify in public your contact with Dr Caperna, it's not I who am the liar.

[garro]

avoiding moronic nurses with needles will not help them.

Obviously you have little knowledge of the realities of medical practice. There was no need to restrain a non-responsive patient. In fact restraint without a physicians order and well documented proof of need is illegal and can result in criminal charges being filed against the nurse or other practitioner. I also know of instances of physicans sticking nurses in the ER or OR. Lab techs also have their share of needle stick injuries.

I have plenty of knowledge about what occurs in ER/A+E as I am a trauma nurse.

[nick2k]

Khun? and Nick2k

How on Earth do you think that the USA and the West got to be rich? by supplying themselves with products? Doesn't make any sense, countries need each other, only have to look at N.Korea, Cuba etc... to see that.

You guys love to spout commercialism, well a huge part of that is supply, demand and cost/competition. The US just couldn't compete, it really is as simple as that.

Why should 1 million people suffer because a couple of companies want US prices for their drugs in the third world with a PPP of about 10% of the USA..

the usa is rich because the land we live in is full of resources, and fertile land. that is why we are rich.

..as for needing other countries, we don't need them. frankly, I would be happy if the western countries and those others who respect the "rule of law" kept to themselves.

we don't need to have to deal with thieves.

as for competing.. why do we need to compete with everybody?

the usa is one of those countries that can support themselves TOTALLY. we have the means to supply all americans with food, and whatever else they need to lead a happy life.

we don't need anyone.

we are not obligated to help anyone that is not american. period.

..as for the 1 million people who are suffering that you mentioned, we didn't put them there. if there is anybody who can be blamed for their current status, it is the rich people of thailand who kept them that way by not providing them a decent education or a decent salary. talk about greed. look to your own first before placing the blame on others for your problems.

personally, I think america should stop outsourcing to other countries. bring back all the factories. bring back all the jobs to america for americans.

with guys like garro, jdin, etc bashing america, I know that my dream will come true some day.

keep up the good work, guys. you are doing a good job.

[garro]

You mean, no more McDonalds!

What will we do?

[nick2k]

You mean, no more McDonalds!

What will we do?

well, I guess you could come and pay us a visit in america if you are really that addicted to McDonalds.

we will try to make you feel at home when you do - by providing dual tier pricing - one for thais, and one for americans.

..I know you will like that.

oh. and make sure you bring plenty of money. if you decide to buy a condo, we will expect 30% of the purchase price

deposited in a USA based bank just in case you sell the condo too quickly. we don't want any speculators here.

on second thought, you may be better off staying at home. when americans see you walking down the street, they will call you "skinny", and cheap.

from your picture, I think you would be better off staying in thailand eating bananas.

[John K]

Thailand threatens to expand generic drugs for cancer, AIDS

BANGKOK (AFP) - Thailand's health minister has threatened to expand the country's generic drug programme to include cancer and more AIDS medications, unless pharmaceutical companies sharply cut their prices.

In an interview with AFP, Health Minister Mongkol Na Songkhla said he was undeterred by the fierce resistance from drugmakers to his trailblazing drive to issue so-called "compulsory licences" for high-priced medications.

"I will continue to negotiate with drug companies" to reduce prices of AIDS, cancer and heart disease medications, Mongkol told AFP.

"But if negotiations fail, we are ready to act," the 65-year-old general practitioner said.

Under the rules of the World Trade Organisation, countries are allowed to order compulsory licenses that temporarily suspend patents and clear the way for generic drugs to protect public health in an emergency.

Few countries have actually used this provision.

But since Mongkol was appointed as health minister by the military after a September coup, he has jolted the powerful pharmaceutical industry by allowing generic versions of two anti-AIDS drugs -- Efavirenz and Kaletra -- and popular heart disease medicine Plavix.

The decision drew outrage from the industry with Thailand's top pharmaceutical group calling it "a stunning blow" to foreign investment already hit by political uncertainty since the coup.

"This is unprecedented in Thailand. If the government decides to allow more generic drugs, it will further damage the image of Thailand among international investors," said Teera Chakajnardom, president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturer's Association of Thailand.

Angered by Mongkol's decision, US drug giant Abbott Laboratories, the maker of AIDS drug Kaletra, said this week it would stop selling new drugs to Thailand -- including an improved version of Kaletra.

But Mongkol was unfazed by critics and corporate retaliations, saying that after years as a ministry bureaucrat involved in price negotiations with European and US drug giants, he was well aware of his opponents.

"Our ministry has been negotiating with drug companies over the past two years" to cut drug prices, he said. "But they did not cooperate with the ministry. Never. They were never interested in negotiations.

"We've come to the point that we have to do something about it. We cannot wait and talk to them without any achievement."

Drugmakers say they have to charge high prices for new medicines to recover the enormous cost of research needed to bring new medications to market.

The minister said

HIV/AIDS is Thailand's top cause of death, followed by heart disease.

Some 500,000 Thais are infected with HIV, but fewer than 10 percent of them can afford to buy Kaletra, he said.

Under the generic programme, treatment with Kaletra is expected to drop from 11,580 baht (330 dollars) per month to 4,000 baht per month, according to charity

Doctors Without Borders (MSF).

Similarly, fewer than 10 percent of some 300,000 heart disease patients in Thailand can buy Plavix, a blood-thinning treatment to prevent heart attacks, according to the ministry.

The cost of Plavix, the world's second top-selling medicine, is expected to drop from 73 baht (two dollars) per day to fewer than seven baht under the generic program, the ministry said.

Paul Cawthorne, head of the MSF mission in Thailand, hailed Thailand's move and said Mongkol had complied with WTO rules.

"What the government has done so far is perfectly legal within Thai law and is also legal within the guidelines of the World Trade Organisation," said Cawthorne.

Mongkol said the government had to resort to the generic program in the face of a ballooning health care budget now at more than 250 billion baht (seven billion dollars) and projected to rise 10 percent every year.

"We want to help the poor. We have to use the compulsory licence for the poor people," he said, adding the government would import generic forms of the AIDS and heart drugs from India, a major source of copycat medications.

Former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, ousted by the military in the September putsch, set up an enormously popular health scheme allowing Thais to pay only 30 baht (about 80 US cents) for each visit to the doctor.

After the coup, the army-backed government went further by scrapping the 30-baht payment, creating a free-for-everyone health care system.

All of Thailand's 65 million people are eligible for the universal health plan unless they have coverage from their employer or qualify for other government insurance schemes.

The universal health scheme covers some 48.5 million, or 75 percent of the population, the ministry said.

Mongkol said drug giants should do more to cut prices of essential medicines to treat AIDS, cancer and heart diseases.

"If they voluntarily reduce prices to let the poor people access to essential drugs, there is no need to do compulsory licensing," he said. "We are doing everything to help the poor people."

[jdinasia]

Dupont ... your thinking is weak in your above post ... what does selling drugs here have to do with a country's ability to copy them? The chem compound is public record in any patented medicine! So basically Abbot would be forcing the hand of Thailand to copy EVERYTHING they produce but don't sell!

[gummy]

Khun? and Nick2k

How on Earth do you think that the USA and the West got to be rich? by supplying themselves with products? Doesn't make any sense, countries need each other, only have to look at N.Korea, Cuba etc... to see that.

You guys love to spout commercialism, well a huge part of that is supply, demand and cost/competition. The US just couldn't compete, it really is as simple as that.

Why should 1 million people suffer because a couple of companies want US prices for their drugs in the third world with a PPP of about 10% of the USA..

the usa is rich because the land we live in is full of resources, and fertile land. that is why we are rich.

..as for needing other countries, we don't need them. frankly, I would be happy if the western countries and those others who respect the "rule of law" kept to themselves.

we don't need to have to deal with thieves.

as for competing.. why do we need to compete with everybody?

the usa is one of those countries that can support themselves TOTALLY. we have the means to supply all americans with food, and whatever else they need to lead a happy life.

we don't need anyone.

we are not obligated to help anyone that is not american. period.

..as for the 1 million people who are suffering that you mentioned, we didn't put them there. if there is anybody who can be blamed for their current status, it is the rich people of thailand who kept them that way by not providing them a decent education or a decent salary. talk about greed. look to your own first before placing the blame on others for your problems.

personally, I think america should stop outsourcing to other countries. bring back all the factories. bring back all the jobs to america for americans.

with guys like garro, jdin, etc bashing america, I know that my dream will come true some day.

keep up the good work, guys. you are doing a good job.

Yep and with all the bullsh1t you guys spout your lands will become without doubt even more fertile. And as for not being obligated to help anyone I guess their are many families of the few 100,000 Iraqi's who wished USA had never "helped" them either ! It is strange that the only people you choose to help are those willing or able to pay extortionate prices for your goods and drugs.

[jdinasia]

LOL ..... just saw in that quoted text .... that I was mentioned ...

nick ... better start reading again as I have not bashed America at all I haven't even called the major Pharma boys the blood sucking parasites that they are!

[Khun ?]

Thailand Issues Compulsory License to AIDS Drug

Thailand’s Ministry Of Public Health has announced plans to grant a five-year, compulsory license to produce a lower-cost version of Merck’s antiretroviral drug Efavirenz — a move that appears to be legal under the World Trade Organization’s Doha Declaration (an amendment to the WTO’s TRIPS Agreement).Thailand is looking to save on the cost of Efavirenz by reducing the price 50% from $67 monthly to $38.5 monthly, according to the ministry’s Department of Disease Control. Meanwhile, Merck claims it makes no profits off Efavirenz in Thailand and that the Thai government did not consult the company before deciding to issue the compulsory license. Under the license, Merck will receive a 0.5% royalty on sales of the locally produced drug.Provisions on compulsory licensing are written into the TRIPS agreement on trade-related intellectual property rights so governments can issue compulsory licenses to allow other companies to make a patented product or use a patented process under license without the consent of the patent owner but only under certain conditions aimed at safeguarding the legitimate interests of the patent holder. TRIPS, or Trade-Related aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, is an Agreement drawn up by the World Trade Organization to ensure intellectual property rights are respected within international trade.

Efavirenz was approved by the FDA in 1998 for use in combination with other anti-retrovirals in adults and children with HIV infection. Efavirenz is used with other medications to treat human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection in patients with or without acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS). Efavirenz is in a class of medications called nonnucleoside reverse transcriptase inhibitors (NNRTIs) that works by slowing the spread of HIV in the body. Efavirenz does not cure HIV infection and may not prevent someone from developing HIV-related illnesses or from spreading HIV to other people. In 2004, global combined sales of Crixivan (indinavir)/Stocrin(Efavirenz) reached $256 million.Thailand’s Health Ministry has argued that it cannot afford to import Efavirenz and thousands of Nevirapine-resistant HIV/AIDS patients would likely die without a cheaper version of the drug on the market. By producing its own generic version of the drug, Thailand will be able to treat 100,000 HIV-positive people, compared with 17,000 who have access to the drug now.

Today, AIDS is the leading cause of death in Thailand with more than 50,000 are expected to die in Thailand from AIDS-related causes in 2006, according to a World Bank study.

[Khun ?]

Kind of funny it will save them 24 mil and they have 70 Billion in foreign currency reserves.

In January, the Public Health Ministry issued compulsory licenses for the heart disease drug Plavix, made by Bristol-Myers Squibb and Sanofi-Aventis and Abbott Laboratories' Kaletra to treat HIV/AIDS, after making a similar move on another AIDS drug, Efavirenz, by Merck last November.

The licenses, which Thai health officials said would save the country up to Bt800 million (US$24 million) a year, drew praise from AIDS activists but flak from Washington and the drug industry, which together are urging the ministry to rescind them.