Is this considered as “work”?

[Golden Triangle]

I'd be very careful mate, what time do you get to the restaurant in the morning ? Are you there all day ? How do you get your supplies for the food etc, do you go and do the shopping or have it delivered ? If you go to Macro for example who unloads the car or bike or whatever? Who orders the beers and soft drinks, you or the GF ? There are so many ways to fall foul of the laws here. I know a guy that got fined 50 k Baht for carrying 2 loudspeakers from his motor into the bar.

 

Look at all angles of your daily routine and analyse where you could slip up or could be seen by hostile competitors who may want to report you.

 

I wish you luck. 

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

I was told by an immigration official that if one owned a property one was working !!!

As is well-documented here, immigration break / make up their own laws all the time, so their word is only a concern to the extent their lying  / scamming affects your immigration issues. 

But, a cop that shows up at his shop may likewise have been paid-off by someone, similar to immigration's fishing for "extra" money, to make up a violation that never occurred.

"Legal or Not" may not matter.  It's often not about "what's right" or "the law" or anything else.  It's about putting money in their pocket" - a Racket, which operates under cover of law.

 

Even going there to eat lunch with the wife - as a paying customer - could provide enough of a fake-cause to setup a profitable ripoff for them.

[atyclb]

i painted my room 2 colors no less therefore took away work from locals that could have been hired. when will i be deported?

[sead]

As I understand it, you can be the manager and in that role you are permitted to translate and interact with customers but not serve them.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, sead said:

As I understand it, you can be the manager and in that role you are permitted to translate and interact with customers but not serve them.

How would I legally go about that?

 

As I’ve had the entire day to assess the situation again, I just realized I do much more than only talking to customers:

 

-I interact with the customers verbally as she’s unable to.

-I generally take orders from customers and relay them to the girlfriend either using hand gestures or Google Translate.

- I help her loading and unloading chairs from and to behind the counter when we open/close doors.

-I casually sweep a cloth rug on the counter whenever it is dirty.

-I participate in the ingredients purchase when we’re shopping together at Makro.

 

Time to call it quits, she won’t be happy about it.

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, tcp7 said:

How would I legally go about that?

 

As I’ve had the entire day to assess the situation again, I just realized I do much more than only talking to customers:

 

-I interact with the customers verbally as she’s unable to.

-I generally take orders from customers and relay them to the girlfriend either using hand gestures or Google Translate.

- I help her loading and unloading chairs from and to behind the counter when we open/close doors.

-I casually sweep a cloth rug on the counter whenever it is dirty.

-I participate in the ingredients purchase when we’re shopping together at Makro.

 

Time to call it quits, she won’t be happy about it.

This post very clearly clarifies that you are "working."

 

TIT 

[Myran]

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

i painted my room 2 colors no less therefore took away work from locals that could have been hired. when will i be deported?

Not soon enough, you monster!

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

i painted my room 2 colors no less therefore took away work from locals that could have been hired. when will i be deported?

When your Thai girlfriend wants you to be.  ????

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

This post very clearly clarifies that you are "working."

 

TIT 

Yup and I just explained her why I won’t be doing it anymore. She’s unhappy but understands.

 

Going to ask the moderators wether this entire thread can be safely deleted (not just locked), don’t want to leave too many footprints behind, you never know.

[elliss]

18 hours ago, tcp7 said:

A very touristic street in Pattaya.

 

I guess I have to be extremely careful and cautious then.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Fyi ,  farlangs are your enemies , in buisness.

 

[Happy Grumpy]

20 hours ago, tcp7 said:

My job is more or less to sit at a table or at the counter and welcome customers with basic questions like “Where are you from?” Or “How long are you staying in Thailand?”.

 

 

Quickly followed by 'Would you like to come back please?' if I ever walk in there.

 

 

Call the local immigration or labor department if you want an answer. 

[Traubert]

8 hours ago, Alex2554 said:

 

 Land Of Suckers )

I have a six years experience of helping my wife to manage her massage shop in Patong. Never had a problem

 

 

 

Until you decided to boast about it, specified the business type, the city and left your IP Address laying about.

[KhaoYai]

On 7/4/2019 at 10:57 PM, tcp7 said:

As I’m currently playing the Tourist visa+30 days game along with the VoA+30 days game, I don’t want to get caught working illegally in Thailand. 

And on another thread, people are questioning why people are being denied entry. Playing the game? The only game you are playing is contributing to the reasons why denial of entry is becoming more regular - could be you next.

[elviajero]

10 hours ago, SteveK said:

Could anyone shed any light on how to get a work permit for a business owned solely by your Thai wife and yourself? Is that even a possibility?

You could form a Limited Partnership with your wife, but getting a work permit will depend on the job you are going to do.

[Chazar]

On 7/5/2019 at 5:11 AM, Crossy said:

Any interaction with customers in "your" restaurant could be construed as work and could cause you issues, don't even pick up a plate. There have been reports of guys getting into trouble for doing just that.

 

In the real world much depends upon where you are. Middle of a tourist area with lots of competition who could shop you to the authorities = strong possibility of a visit from the BiB. Middle of nowhere with little competition = enjoy your chats.

 

Thats what the  German chicken guy  thought

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

I was told by an immigration official that if one owned a property one was working !!!

More likely, if you owned it in a company name, you were hence a director, and need a work permit. Foreigners can own a condo in their own name and for sure not be working. 

[mikebell]

15 hours ago, SteveK said:

be seen to pay your wife. As said before, don't do anything a customer wouldn't do.

What would a customer be paying the wife for?

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

More likely, if you owned it in a company name, you were hence a director, and need a work permit. Foreigners can own a condo in their own name and for sure not be working. 

Being a shareholder (owner) does not make you a Director. You can be either or both. And you don’t need a work permit to be a Director.

 

The company would own the property not the Director.

[jacko45k]

16 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Being a shareholder (owner) does not make you a Director. You can be either or both. And you don’t need a work permit to be a Director.

 

The company would own the property not the Director.

Being a shareholder does not make you an owner either. The problem with your third sentence is that some Immigration Officers have to be persuaded of that fact too. It was being used to deny a retirement ext. Been in recent discussion over that very occurrence. 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Being a shareholder (owner) does not make you a Director. You can be either or both. And you don’t need a work permit to be a Director.

 

The company would own the property not the Director.

Being a shareholder does not make you an owner either. The problem with your third sentence is that some Immigration Officers have to be persuaded of that fact too. It was being used to deny a retirement ext. Been in recent discussion over that very occurrence.

I know that a company is a legal entity in it's own right, but in the real world the shareholders are the owners. My wife and I are 51/49 percent shareholders in our companies and although others run them only we can sell and share the profits. But my point was to correct your claim that a shareholder is a Director.

 

My third sentence is fact. If a Director does work (attends meetings etc.) on behalf of the company I can see why immigration could refuse an extension of stay based on retirement (not working). Whether the Director needs a work permit for the work they carry out depends on the nature of the work. If what you say is true the applicant was daft to tell immigration they were a Thai company Director.

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If what you say is true the applicant was daft to tell immigration they were a Thai company Director.

It stemmed from the place the person lived, a house in a company name, The IO was requiring to see the company documents, listing that person as a director. Not so much daft as unavoidable. My personal circumstances are very similar, but my IO is happy with my phone bill.  

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

It stemmed from the place the person lived, a house in a company name, The IO was requiring to see the company documents, listing that person as a director. Not so much daft as unavoidable. My personal circumstances are very similar, but my IO is happy with my phone bill.  

Okay, that makes sense.

[Leaver]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Being a shareholder does not make you an owner either. The problem with your third sentence is that some Immigration Officers have to be persuaded of that fact too. It was being used to deny a retirement ext. Been in recent discussion over that very occurrence. 

How can a shareholder, at law, not be an owner?  If they were not an owner, what do they have a share in????

 

It is an interesting topic,

 

In my opinion, a director would be performing some "labor" which is viewed as "work" here, no matter how small, by way of making decisions, signing documents etc. 

 

Of course, so many variables here and different interpretations. 

[Tonyt00]

Well, your working! And your in serious danger of getting caught. You dont have to touch dishes, or sweep the floor. You are Working, when your chatting with the customers and any immigration officer can see that. 

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

It is an interesting topic,

 

In my opinion, a director would be performing some "labor" which is viewed as "work" here, no matter how small, by way of making decisions, signing documents etc. 

 

Of course, so many variables here and different interpretations. 

Thai law allows for Directors to attend meetings on behalf of the company without a work permit, but thats about it. Signing documents would require a work permit.

 

[emptypockets]

Just come to isaan, Me and the wife just laid 30 square metres concrete paving slabs.....nobody cares. is that working?...probably. Does anyone care...not at all...the neighbours helped. It seems to me he biggest risk is not from Thai people who generally know nothing about the laws but from other jealous or vindictive foreigners.

 

So much for the often quoted 'fellow farang'.

 

Bugger off you busybodies and leave me alone.,

[tgeezer]

I thought that every street-side enterprise paid the police, if that is the case then what is there to worry about? 

[the guest]

Exerting energy is considered work in Thailand,  meaning immigration can pick you up at any time. 

 

I advise you to do absolutely nothing,  it's not worth the risk. Sit at home watch TV or drink in the bars. All of us are tourists, so better to behave like one, or risk losing everything and getting deported. 

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, Leaver said:

How can a shareholder, at law, not be an owner?  If they were not an owner, what do they have a share in????

Maybe part owner. We are discussing shell companies here, some shareholders have already signed there shares over and have no voting rights. To be honest I have lost track of how it all works. 

[PoorMeMuppets]

The only way I personally could see it - as in if it were me with said business, having said 'social chats' within that business, and whatever - as you've already pointed out in the context of 'My girlfriend and I recently opened a small restaurant'.. plus 'My job is..' then, surely, even in that context of YOUR OWN DEFINITION of how things are, you'd have to see yourself as pretty much 'working' there, and so anyone 'looking in' is going to see, think, the same, no? Sorry, just saying.

Edited July 7, 2019 by PoorMeMuppets