U.S. topic -- Issues about repatriation to the USA (redux)

[Jingthing]

Americans living abroad, whether in Thailand or any foreign country, often decide to repatriate. Often that was always the plan from the start. 

 

Some Americans living in Thailand have always chosen to repatriate for the usual personal reasons. (There are many.)

 

Repatriating should not be seen as a failure any more than deciding to move within your home country.

 

As most of us are aware there have been some changes in Thailand regarding living conditions (pollution, etc.), unfavorable exchange rate movements, and visa rule and enforcement changes that have been putting more pressure than in "normal" times on expats to consider moving away from Thailand.

 

Americans in particular are among the "lucky" few nations where embassy letters are no longer available to prove income to immigration to meet financial requirements.

 

In response to this, some expats including Americans have already moved from Thailand. There are many others considering moving away from Thailand. 

 

The "traditional" top choices for people doing that are to move to neighboring Asean nations such as Cambodia or back home. If I had to guess I would guess the most popular choice is back home.

 

On the forum we've also had people discussing some more non traditional third country options such as in Latin America and Europe (eastern and western).

 

Given these developments, I thought now is an apt time to start a FRESH topic about repatriation to the USA. Given it's one of and probably the top choice for Americans that are leaving Thailand. 

 

Yes, there is a old  inactive thread already on this topic but it is dated with a lot of baggage and information that is no longer relevant. If I just continued this on that old topic, it would be a total mess because people would just be replying to the dated information on that thread. So please do not refer to posts in that thread on this thread,

 

Some people may be wondering if this is personal to me, or more general. No, the intention is definitely more GENERAL.

 

My personal preference is to stay in Thailand but I am currently seriously considering moving away from Thailand in the next few years. My top choices for that are in Latin America. But repatriating is always an "easy" no visa needed option for all Americans, including me. I see it as kind of a backup. If living in Thailand is no longer viable and moving to Latin America doesn't pan out either, I know that that I'll be stamped into the USA with no problem.

 

But after that, then there is the repatriation into a different country than we knew if we've been living away for a long time.

 

So this topic is about that part of it -- issues about repatriation the USA. Any and all of them.

 

Have at it if this interests you, and don't bother to post if it doesn't!

 

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Jingthing

[WalkingOrders]

Re pat re a tion.... such a big word for just getting on a plane to the states. I think a certain amount of Americans, or for that matter people from everywhere, may not meet the money requirement for Thailand.... then you have to go....nothing more to say really.

 

As far as where such people can go, if money is an issue...and I mean this...you should go home... as you get older, your health will become an issue, I wouldnt want to wind up seriously sick in Columbia, or Vietnam, or anywhere, but the USA, if I did not have funds to take care of it.

And if you are in Thailand and cant afford the minimums to stay in Country...you most certainly cant afford health insurance....here...or anywhere. Time to re-pat-ri-ate, back to the USA, until other options can be figured out....meaning make some money!

[Jingthing]

To start this topic, consider the SUBURBS of the USA cities.

Suburbs are a very popular choice but there are different kinds of suburbs and special issues and costs associated with living in the suburbs. A key aspect of this is dependence on cars. As Americans know, in most of the USA is extremely car dependent.

 

Quote

6 of the worst hidden costs of living in the suburbs

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/suburbs-vs-city-cost-living-2019-7

 

Quote

Boomers Would Be Wise To Get Out Of The Suburbs

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-end-of-suburbs-means-for-boomers-2013-8

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Re pat re a tion.... such a big word for just getting on a plane to the states. I think a certain amount of Americans, or for that matter people from everywhere, may not meet the money requirement for Thailand.... then you have to go....nothing more to say really.

 

As far as where such people can go, if money is an issue...and I mean this...you should go home... as you get older, your health will become an issue, I wouldnt want to wind up seriously sick in Columbia, or Vietnam, or anywhere, but the USA, if I did not have funds to take care of it.

And if you are in Thailand and cant afford the minimums to stay in Country...you most certainly cant afford health insurance....here...or anywhere. Time to re-pat-ri-ate, back to the USA, until other options can be figured out....meaning make some money!

Money matters a lot.

Retired people are often past making more money. That live on fixed incomes and whatever assets they may have.

Repatriation before age 65 could be a problem health insurance-wise for such people. 

Repatriation after age 65 as that is the Medicare qualifying age may be quite attractive.

However, Medicare is not free. You have the extra "part" premiums and the last time I checked the average elder spends 150K USD lifetime out of pocket even with Medicare coverage so it's probably more like at least 200K USD by now. 

Many people don't even have that 150K in the first place and they have to have food, clothing, and shelter too.

They might be better off with a much lower cost of living in a lower cost nation and even just paying retail for health care.

As is covered in the Latin American topic, low cost buy ins to national health care programs are available in some countries to expats young and old including Colombia and Ecuador. For Mexico, it would be health condition related.

 

Saying all this because your premise makes sense for SOME people but not ALL people.

 

No one answer makes the best sense for ALL people.

 

So I'm saying your assertion that lower wealth people feeling financially pressured to leave Thailand should ALWAYS choose to repatriate is extremely questionable. OK if that's your opinion that it is, but I strongly disagree. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Jingthing

[WalkingOrders]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Money matters a lot.

Retired people are often past making more money. That live on fixed incomes and whatever assets they may have.

Repatriation before age 65 could be a problem health insurance-wise for such people. 

Repatriation after age 65 as that is the Medicare qualifying age may be quite attractive.

However, Medicare is not free. You have the extra "part" premiums and the last time I checked the average elder spends 150K USD lifetime out of pocket even with Medicare coverage so it's probably more like at least 200K USD by now. 

Many people don't even have that 150K in the first place and they have to have food, clothing, and shelter too.

They might be better off with a much lower cost of living in a lower cost nation and even just paying retail for health care.

As is covered in the Latin American topic, low cost buy ins to national health care programs are available in some countries to expats young and old including Colombia and Ecuador. For Mexico, it would be health condition related.

 

Saying all this because your premise makes sense for SOME people but not ALL people.

 

No one answer makes the best sense for ALL people.

 

So I'm saying your assertion that lower wealth people feeling financially pressured to leave Thailand should ALWAYS choose to repatriate is extremely questionable. OK if that's your opinion that it is, but I strongly disagree. 

If you cannot meet the minimum to stay in Thailand.. you MOST CERTAINLY...meet minimums for a slew of free programs in the USA, as a citizen, everything from healthcare to foodstamps, based on having a negligible income, because if you cannot stay in Thailand...your income is poverty level in the USA. Thats a fact jack!

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

If you cannot meet the minimum to stay in Thailand.. you MOST CERTAINLY...meet minimums for a slew of free programs in the USA, as a citizen, everything from healthcare to foodstamps, based on having a negligible income, because if you cannot stay in Thailand...your income is poverty level in the USA. Thats a fact jack!

Sorry. 800K is quite high for a retirement visa requirement globally. Most of the Latin American nations that have programs are much less. Even western Europe nations that have programs are generally less. You're making incorrect assumptions about the ease of getting on assistance programs in the U.S. Such as food stamps. Take the time to look it up particularly for a single man with assets. 

Medicaid is for very very low income people. Much less than 800K. 

Expanded Medicaid (an Obamacare feature) is only for people IN BETWEEN that very low and a rather substantial minimum needed to qualify for Obamacare subsidies. 

Generally the lower cost (sunbelt) states that lower wealth retirees are choosing do NOT have expanded Medicaid.

As far as subsidized senior housing, there is a limited supply of that where you pay rent based on income. These are great options but the waiting lists are year's long and the applicants are well vetted for rental history. Someone that has been living abroad for a long time would be a very unusual application as some don't even have credit histories any longer!

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Another related housing issue if you've been living abroad for a long time is around renting housing. If you don't have a current credit history there is almost no way into a typical rental situation. There are other options, sofa crashing, craigslist, begging to individual owner landlords, offering to pay a year in advance, etc. But I think some people would have a painful adjustment period as they get reestablished USA style. 

Another thing, driver's licenses. 

If you no longer have one (whether you have a Thai one or not) what are you going to do, carry your passport everywhere?

Of course you'd try to get a new one but now there are new rules about "real ID" that will require documentation showing that you're established in your new home state. But you won't be established.

 

Ironically (or not) some of these issues may be quite similar to moving to a third country.

 

What I'm saying is that be careful about trivializing the practical issues around repatriation especially in cases where you've been living abroad 10 or 20 years or so. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Jingthing

[bluebluewater]

I just booked my ticket a couple of days ago to return to the States. That will happen in a couple of months when my current extension expires.   I am unwilling to bring the amount of money into this country that is now required and I don't need 65K to live here month to month so I am unwilling to do that as well.  I have the money ++ but no faith in any of the institutions of Thailand.  I live alone, simply and peacefully, and it ain't no thing to return.  I'm fourteen years in here in LOS, speak excellent Thai, and I would kinda think I am the very kind of expat that they might want here but they are certainly making it hard to stick around.  

 

No matter - Thailand is a more interesting place but it ain't the only place.

[Jingthing]

47 minutes ago, bluebluewater said:

I just booked my ticket a couple of days ago to return to the States. That will happen in a couple of months when my current extension expires.   I am unwilling to bring the amount of money into this country that is now required and I don't need 65K to live here month to month so I am unwilling to do that as well.  I have the money ++ but no faith in any of the institutions of Thailand.  I live alone, simply and peacefully, and it ain't no thing to return.  I'm fourteen years in here in LOS, speak excellent Thai, and I would kinda think I am the very kind of expat that they might want here but they are certainly making it hard to stick around.  

 

No matter - Thailand is a more interesting place but it ain't the only place.

Hi there,

Yes I can relate to your POV very well. 

If you are willing, can you share your experiences over time relating to repatriation that might be useful or of interest to others that will be following you back home?

Edited July 12, 2019 by Jingthing

[Puchaiyank]

Backup plan...have home and truck already paid for in the US.

 

Have both VA and medicare healthcare in US...have family in US..

 

So why am I here...get bored sxxtless doing the same basic mundane routine one falls into there...I still love the rush of adventure, unique culture, availability of a quality companion and my health is not yet failing...

 

Everyday is an opportunity for excitment...just surviving driving to Big-C and back gets the heart rate up...prospect of running into an unreasonable immigration officer is another...

 

Life is good...bought a grocery cart full of pork, chicken, seafood, fresh fruits and vegetables, breads and cakes, noodles and many other items...paid $70...Try that in the US...????

 

 

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

Backup plan...have home and truck already paid for in the US.

 

Have both VA and medicare healthcare in US...have family in US..

 

So why am I here...get bored sxxtless doing the same basic mundane routine one falls into there...I still love the rush of adventure, unique culture, availability of a quality companion and my health is not yet failing...

 

Everyday is an opportunity for excitment...just surviving driving to Big-C and back gets the heart rate up...prospect of running into an unreasonable immigration officer is another...

 

Life is good...bought a grocery cart full of pork, chicken, seafood, fresh fruits and vegetables, breads and cakes, noodles and many other items...paid $70...Try that in the US...????

 

 

Good for you that you have a U.S. house and truck paid for medical covered and a support system there. A good example of how each person's situation will be very different in the event of repatriation. So you can expect a "soft" landing there. Others may be entering a new American school of "hard" knocks though. 

[GinBoy2]

This is one of those topics that is mired in a myriad of personal circumstances.

 

Now I never cut my ties at home. Always had a house, fully paid up which I rented out, kept very closes ties with my family for all the years I lived in Thailand.

 

But decisions to leave Thailand are complex and highly personal.

 

Some poor souls get into the position that they just run outta money, and therefore options

Others, and I include myself end up with Thai fatigue, where the shine just wears off over time.

 

So, you get to the repatriation to your home country or just move on to the next SEA country.

 

Thats where it gets really individual specific,

 

Married, Monger, out of money, nothing to go home to. The list goes on and on.

 

For me, after 10years I did suffer Thailand fatigue, but the killer for us was when our son, who is a US citizen told Mom he wasn't returning to Thailand on the day he graduated from college in Chicago.

 

I remember very vividly Momma's discussion with me that very evening in the Park Hyatt in Chicago, that we were going to get married (legally) and I was going to apply for her green card!

 

I did as I was told!

 

So here we are couple of years later. We do the snowbird thing, escape the winter for a couple of months a year to our house in Thailand, but for the rest we're happily settled in our US life.

 

My Thai son, and eldest American daughter share a house in Denver, which is within driving distance or a 40 minute flight.

Momma is happy resuming her real career working for DoD, and we can see our kids every month.

 

But everyone is different so it's impossible to say whats going to work.

 

 

[mania]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Good for you that you have a U.S. house and truck paid for medical covered and a support system there. A good example of how each person's situation will be very different in the event of repatriation. So you can expect a "soft" landing there. Others may be entering a new American school of "hard" knocks though

IMHO An American returning to the USA with or without house etc still has a much softer landing than anywhere else in the world

 

The reason?  The USA has safety nets in place for citizens that are easily qualified for many of which are same day qualification.

 

These are based on income & not whether you own a home. Some like Medicaid do not even ask what you have in savings just income

Things like EBT (food card)

Medicaid free medical insurance (if your under the poverty level which is quite high in the USA) Of course if your over 65 you can get Medicare & still Medicaid too if you cannot afford part Medicare D etc They allow you to have both Medicare & Medicaid

 

If you have minor children you also qualify for financial assistance

 

Unlike other countries one thing is for sure in the USA if your an American & even if your not (meaning green card holders)

...You will never be turned away from an emergency room or refused due to inability to pay...like in some countries

 

So yes IMHO I think a US citizen would be hard pressed to find a softer landing

Safety nets do not need to be used BUT...it is a nice to have if you do need them

[lannarebirth]

If you're wondering how to do it with limited means, bear in mind that most US programs are income based and not wealth based.  So, take your savings and buy the most affordable living situation you can.  Apply to the country for property tax exemption. Apply for food stamps, meals on wheels, medicare, medicaid. Maybe the stet will send somone out to clean your house or mow your lawn. If your heater or aircon breaks they have programs to replace those for free. Just don't show back up with the savings to take care of yourself, or you'll be paying for both for yourself and the guy I've just described.

[mania]

33 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Just don't show back up with the savings to take care of yourself, or you'll be paying for both for yourself and the guy I've just described.

 

Sad but true....The US is now ( or maybe a long time now?) Set up that you either make a lot $$$ or very little $

Anywhere in between is hell

I do my daughters books & can never believe how much she needs to hand over each year due to her working 14 hour days in her own very successful business.

Edited July 13, 2019 by mania

[WalkingOrders]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sorry. 800K is quite high for a retirement visa requirement globally. Most of the Latin American nations that have programs are much less. Even western Europe nations that have programs are generally less. You're making incorrect assumptions about the ease of getting on assistance programs in the U.S. Such as food stamps. Take the time to look it up particularly for a single man with assets. 

Medicaid is for very very low income people. Much less than 800K. 

Expanded Medicaid (an Obamacare feature) is only for people IN BETWEEN that very low and a rather substantial minimum needed to qualify for Obamacare subsidies. 

Generally the lower cost (sunbelt) states that lower wealth retirees are choosing do NOT have expanded Medicaid.

As far as subsidized senior housing, there is a limited supply of that where you pay rent based on income. These are great options but the waiting lists are year's long and the applicants are well vetted for rental history. Someone that has been living abroad for a long time would be a very unusual application as some don't even have credit histories any longer!

 

Okay. I am age 60, born and raised USA, in Thailand for 3 yrs, lived in NY, CA, WA, TX, and GA. So let me bottom line this. First its 800K baht, or an income per month...I think 65K baht...maybe I am a bit off. Now if you cant meet the reqs for Thailand cuz yer broke....and you are broke if you cant meet those..( not talking about work visa people like teachers..who have medical), go ahead try your luck in a place with lower reqs. And if you want to get sick there and burden a 3rd world countries health system...go ahead....but my advise....would be go home to the USA, make some money, or if retirement age take advantage of all the programs available....

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

Okay. I am age 60, born and raised USA, in Thailand for 3 yrs, lived in NY, CA, WA, TX, and GA. So let me bottom line this. First its 800K baht, or an income per month...I think 65K baht...maybe I am a bit off. Now if you cant meet the reqs for Thailand cuz yer broke....and you are broke if you cant meet those..( not talking about work visa people like teachers..who have medical), go ahead try your luck in a place with lower reqs. And if you want to get sick there and burden a 3rd world countries health system...go ahead....but my advise....would be go home to the USA, make some money, or if retirement age take advantage of all the programs available....

Fine. First of all you have greatly simplified some very complex things (on the Thailand and USA ends) that in reality would be a lot more individualized. 

You do seem to be broadcasting a false narrative that there is unlimited "welfare" for all Americans that aren't wealthy. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There are very specific requirements for each and every potential such program. 

In the USA there are working homeless, there are social security recipients living in substandard housing, people having to choose between eating and buying medications with no such universal safety net that you and some others seem to have a fantasy about. Housing costs have became absurdly high and especially shocking for expats that have been away for decades that don't own housing there. 

As far as third world countries, the health system of Colombia for example (not a third world country) is rated quite a bit higher than the health system of the USA. Granted that higher rating is mostly about full access which the USA still does not have. Of course the USA system is great quality if you do have good access and can afford whatever the associated fees are (premiums, deductibles. extra stuff not even covered by Medicare).

I think Medicaid which is only for those in extreme poverty does not provide the same level as private coverage, but I admit I am no expert on those kinds of details.

I would agree Medicare is pretty good (with the extra cost limitations I mentioned before as a caveat) but you still need food, clothing, shelter, and of course transportation which in the USA usually means the expense of running a car, and more importantly you need to be at least age 65.

For people under Medicare age I have already detailed why there is no guaranteed cover. That would depend on your specific income and whether you are living in an expanded Medicaid state in cases where the income falls in the eligibility zone for that. 

Those in that rather large income zone in those states have no option but to buy full retail private health plans priced for the most wealthy Americans or of course haunt ERs and beg at short supply of available poverty clinics.

But this is getting out of hand already.

The focus of this thread is for people that have decided to repatriate or will eventually repatriate, for whatever reasons.

The focus of this thread is not a debate about whether repatriating is a good idea or not. That doesn't matter so much in the context of this particular topic.

 

As Americans repatriating is the path of least resistance for people that are leaving Thailand, whether fully voluntarily, slow drip frogs in boiling water financial/visa pressure, or yes in some cases forced deportations.

So for those that have already or will be repatriating, then there are issues with that.

 

Thus this topic -- the issues with that.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Jingthing

[cmarshall]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Of course the USA system is great quality if you do have good access and can afford whatever the associated fees are (premiums, deductibles. extra stuff not even covered by Medicare).

I know that we Americans have heard this claim endlessly throughout our lives, but is it true?  Is there data to support such a conclusion?  I have had an eye out for data on this subject for some eyars with limited success, but I do remember two relevant studies on the quality of US healthcare that raise serious questions
 

1.  Some years ago (can't find citation), there was a broad-scale study on accuracy of diagnosis throughout the US reported in the NY Times.  The result was that 40% of diagnoses were incorrect.  I am unaware of similar studies in other countries, but failures at this rate are shocking and very much contrary to the popular image.  

 

2.  There was a statistical study of preventable hospital deaths due to treatment errors published in 2013, that found that there were 440,000 such mistreatment deaths per year in US hospitals, making such errors the third-leading cause of death in the US after heart disease and cancer. 

 

https://www.hospitalsafetygrade.org/newsroom/display/hospitalerrors-thirdleading-causeofdeathinus-improvementstooslow

 

So, it seems entirely possible that medicine-for-profit does not lead to a high rate of successful treatment.  The profit part works just fine though: 40% of the top 1% in America are doctors, a success rate unmatched in any other country.

Edited July 14, 2019 by cmarshall

[Jingthing]

Yeah good points. We do get a lot of propaganda about that for sure. We do know the US system is the most expensive in the world. I wanted to be careful though about taking WHO international ratings too literally though. They do weigh heavily favorably for full access and the USA is still weak in that. Tragically so. Even people with private cover that have high deductibles will be afraid to go near a doctor when they need one because they can't afford the deductible.

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