Problems at Savannakhet and Border July 2019 Report

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

19 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Again, that is misleading in their explanation of work permit rules. 

Again your opinion presented as a fact?

I have not stated that as fact, that is just your opinion. I have backed up my opinion with law and other facts that prove the PE visa is not categorised as a Tourist Visa or issued for tourism.

 

As stated on their website and visa sticker it is a "Privilege Entry Visa", not a "Tourist Visa".

 

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

22 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It is against the law to issue permission to stay for tourism for longer than 90 days. FACT.

Then somebody who has a PE or let's say a non-OA visa and checks "purpose of visit: tourism" on his arrival card should only be given 90 days, right? If an IO gives this person more days he is breaking the law.

No. There is nothing stopping someone with a PE or O-A visa entering for tourism. But someone entering for tourism is restricted in what they can do, which is why TE make it clear that, as with a Tourist Visa, you cannot work.

 

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

As i explained before, they can just call it "elite tourism" or whatever and they can give the holder a year while it's still a tourist visa, even if it has another category number.

They don't call it that though do they! It's called a Privilege Entry visa and is issued under investment rules. It's category is PE. PE is what is written on the entry stamp as the visa class. I believe in it's first form it was called a Special Entry visa.  

 

Again, from the same website;

"Thailand Elite visa is "Privilege Entry Visa".

1. SPECIAL renewable five year multiple entry visa".

 

 

[elviajero]

35 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Probably they just used section 34.15, gave the new activity some fancy name like "elite tourist", and wrote something like: Is to be treated equally to 34.3 in all regards, except the inital permit to stay will be granted for up to one year. This would explain for example why somebody on an Elite visa can only have two year driving license, can not get a pink id card and things like this.

You can get a pink id card with elite visa.

The DL stuff is true tho, i also have no idea about the order and can't locate it... It's like always, they just made it up - prolly.

Only non-immigrant visa holders are supposed to be issued driving licences. That has been relaxed over the years at some offices.

[jackdd]

12 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It's called a Privilege Entry visa and is issued under investment rules.

Just repeating yourself doesn't help you.

You still couldn't provide any official source which confirms this opinion of yours.

But we have an official source saying it's categorized as tourist visa.

 

16 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No. There is nothing stopping someone with a PE or O-A visa entering for tourism. But someone entering for tourism is restricted in what they can do, which is why TE make it clear that, as with a Tourist Visa, you cannot work. 

This wasn't my question. You wrote "It is against the law to issue permission to stay for tourism for longer than 90 days".

If this is 100% set like this by law, how can an IO legally stamp somebody in for more than 90 days if this person writes on his arrival card that he is entering for tourism?

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

25 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It's called a Privilege Entry visa and is issued under investment rules.

Just repeating yourself doesn't help you.

Ditto.

 

Quote

You still couldn't provide any official source which confirms this opinion of yours.

But we have an official source saying it's categorized as tourist visa.

I quoted you the law. You have quoted a commercial website, not an "official source".

 

BTW they also claim, that you cannot apply for a WP with a Tourist Visa. That's wrong too.

Edited July 13, 2019 by elviajero

[ThomasThBKK]

28 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Only non-immigrant visa holders are supposed to be issued driving licences. That has been relaxed over the years at some offices.

I was not talking about the DL regulations.

 

First when the Elite visa came out it was under the tourism rules, that's why on old elite visas get only 90 day stamps.

After they changed it from lifetime to limited time and 1 year stamps - there must have been some regulation or law issued somewhere that classifies what the PE visa exactly is.

I just can't find it anywhere - i assume it might be in a royal gazett issue from many many years ago.

 

Here in the police training materials: http://www.police9.go.th/old/index.php/เอกสารดาวน์โหลด/training/technic/8--1/file.html

 

The first one is called SE Visa for Special entry - the 1 year stamped ones are PE visas Privilege entry so there must be different regulations issued for both of them

 

Quote

Whereas, the Cabinet passed a resolution on 29 July 2003, approving the Thailand Privilege Card Project as proposed by the Ministry of Tourism and Sports, whereby the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) was to implement the project in the form of limited company. "Thailand Privilege Card Company Limited" registered its incorporation under the Civil and Commercial Code on 29 August 2003, having the TAT as its sole shareholder and the registered capital of THB 1,000 million and having the status of state enterprise under the Budget Procedures Act B.E. 2502 (1959).  Its objectives are to generate revenues from foreign visitors; and draw high-end visitors, businessmen, investors and the long stay groups, by offering rights and services to members. Such services are from both public and private sectors, e.g. Visa Privilege, Special Entry Visa, and Privilege Entry Visa

This is the regulation for the SE Visa announced, i am not sure if someone knows when the PE Visa regulation was done?

Edited July 13, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

I was not talking about the DL regulations.

 

First when the Elite visa came out it was under the tourism rules, that's why on old elite visas get only 90 day stamps.

After they changed it from lifetime to limited time and 1 year stamps - there must have been some regulation or law issued somewhere that classifies what the PE visa exactly is.

I just can't find it anywhere - i assume it might be in a royal gazett issue from many many years ago.

Yes, probably. But the fact that they now issue permission to stay in excess of 90 days means it is not issued on the basis of tourism. The change probably happened when they revamped and launched the new scheme.

[Lovethailandelite]

The emergence of E Visa application will stop all visa runs for all visas. Country's using E visa no longer issue visas to non residents or non long term visa holders in the country of application. Once E visa arrives in the region, visa applications will need to take place in your country of passport or a country not yet using E visa application

Note added to the London Thai embassy website below

'

• Confirmation of legal residence in the UK or Ireland (if applicants are not nationals of these countries) e.g. long stay visa, residence permit, BRP card
  
  From the Thai Embassy in Paris
  
  The Royal Thai Embassy issues visas to French, Algerian and Monegasque nationals (consular district covered by the Royal Thai Embassy in France) and to other foreign nationals residing in France( a photocopy of the residence permit or proof of residence). home in France will be requested when filing the file ) The Royal Thai Embassy no longer issues visas to foreign nationals not resident in France
  http://www.thaiembassy.fr/fr/visa-rdv/reglementprise-de-rdv/

Edited July 13, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[ThomasThBKK]

23 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Yes, probably. But the fact that they now issue permission to stay in excess of 90 days means it is not issued on the basis of tourism. The change probably happened when they revamped and launched the new scheme.

Yes they did, that happened in 2011 or later, as that was the year the Democats (lol) tried to stop the whole program and temporary cancled new memberships. I would like to read it as it must have been published somewhere as the cabinet must have given it's ok for all of this.

 

I found this on Thai Visa, answer from Thai Elite, which as always doesn't say much:

 

On 5/13/2012 at 6:25 PM, ThailandInvestmentGuide said:

With the special visa, the member has the right to stay in Thailand without the usual need to leave the country. The visa is multiple entries and valid for 5 years. After 5 years, the visa can be renewed upon request. But every 90 days, the member needs to extend the stay at immigration office (THB 1,900 charged by immigration). This type of visa does not support any type of business or investment activities. But it does not prohibit such activities.

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[Austrian26]

17 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

You are not a tourist, so get a proper visa.

no have, and im sorry, im not paying 15.000$ for a 5 year visa, that may or may not work out in the future

 

before i have to pay that sum, i will happily build a house in another nearby, tourist friendly country. 

[ThomasThBKK]

4 minutes ago, Austrian26 said:

no have, and im sorry, im not paying 15.000$ for a 5 year visa, that may or may not work out in the future

 

before i have to pay that sum, i will happily build a house in another nearby, tourist friendly country. 

Why would you assume that other countries don't get rid of borderruns? 

Most countries a la Vietnam have no visa options like Thailand, no retirement visa there, no nothing. Only fake business visas from agents, property laws in those countries are way worse than in Thailand. Not even Vietnamese can own land in Vietnam ... 

[brewsterbudgen]

Why would you assume that other countries don't get rid of borderruns? 

Most countries a la Vietnam have no visa options like Thailand, no retirement visa there, no nothing. Only fake business visas from agents, property laws in those countries are way worse than in Thailand. Not even Vietnamese can own land in Vietnam ... 

And forget about living long term or owning property in Laos - another Communist state.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The emergence of E Visa application will stop all visa runs for all visas. Country's using E visa no longer issue visas to non residents or non long term visa holders in the country of application. Once E visa arrives in the region, visa applications will need to take place in your country of passport or a country not yet using E visa application

Note added to the London Thai embassy website below

'

• Confirmation of legal residence in the UK or Ireland (if applicants are not nationals of these countries) e.g. long stay visa, residence permit, BRP card
  
  From the Thai Embassy in Paris
  
  The Royal Thai Embassy issues visas to French, Algerian and Monegasque nationals (consular district covered by the Royal Thai Embassy in France) and to other foreign nationals residing in France( a photocopy of the residence permit or proof of residence). home in France will be requested when filing the file ) The Royal Thai Embassy no longer issues visas to foreign nationals not resident in France
  http://www.thaiembassy.fr/fr/visa-rdv/reglementprise-de-rdv/

Wait a sec, in my case I'm a french national using a french passport, I was getting all my Tourists visas from the London embassy as I'm kind of blacklisted by my ex-wife at the Paris embassy.

 

The last TR visa that I had issued in my french passport (again from the London embassy) was in September 2018, they did not require any proofs of residency in the UK at the time.

 

Has this changed at all since September 2018? Are you implying I can't just cross the English Channel anymore, do a quick stop in London and get a visa for Thailand that easy?

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Guest

[elviajero]

51 minutes ago, jackdd said:

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

No. There is nothing stopping someone with a PE or O-A visa entering for tourism. But someone entering for tourism is restricted in what they can do, which is why TE make it clear that, as with a Tourist Visa, you cannot work. 

This wasn't my question. You wrote "It is against the law to issue permission to stay for tourism for longer than 90 days".

If this is 100% set like this by law, how can an IO legally stamp somebody in for more than 90 days if this person writes on his arrival card that he is entering for tourism?

They would not be issuing permission to stay specifically for tourism. They would be issuing permission to stay based on the rules of the PE visa, and the PE visa allows IO's to issue permission of up to 1 year. Tourism is not exempt from entry with a PE visa.

[Lovethailandelite]

20 minutes ago, tcp7 said:

Wait a sec, in my case I'm a french national using a french passport, I was getting all my Tourists visas from the London embassy as I'm kind of blacklisted by my ex-wife at the Paris embassy.

 

The last TR visa that I had issued in my french passport (again from the London embassy) was in September 2018, they did not require any proofs of residency in the UK at the time.

 

Has this changed at all since September 2018? Are you implying I can't just cross the English Channel anymore, do a quick stop in London and get a visa for Thailand that easy?

 

They have added it to the requirements as of the 15th June as have France

 

For tourism and leisure activities

For Single Entry (stay up to 60 days) 

• A current passport with validity not less than 6 months and at least 2 blank pages. Applicants must fill in online visa application with their given name(s) and surname as appear in their passports.
• Printout of visa application form submitted online, with bar code
• Travel booking confirmation
• Proof of accommodation in Thailand e.g. hotel booking, invitation letter from family or friend in Thailand
• Financial evidence e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, sponsorship letter
• Confirmation of legal residence in the UK or Ireland (if applicants are not nationals of these countries) e.g. long stay visa, residence permit, BRP card
  
  http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84451-Tourist-Visa.html
  
  All other visa applications require confirmation of legal resident in the UK or Ireland
  
  
  http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html

Edited July 13, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[moe666]

18 hours ago, lkv said:

For many many years, they were not worried at all stamping passports and could not care less.

 

Took them quite a while indeed to awaken.

 

We might just well blame everybody then. Blame the overstayers, blame the multi non B/O/ED holders, blame the triple/double entry tourist visa users, blame the agencies that were teaching people how to "correctly live in Thailand" for a long time.

 

Seriously, I commented once on Thai visa advice on FB in reference to multi non O holders, that were blaming it on tourist visa abusers, and when I told them they should be on extensions and not do visa runs every 90 days, I got angry comments from shocked individuals that "saw no problem" with what they were doing. This was only a few months ago btw.

Sorry to disappoint but a Non-o is a proper visa, they can work legally on a non-o visa.

[elviajero]

42 minutes ago, Austrian26 said:

no have, and im sorry, im not paying 15.000$ for a 5 year visa, that may or may not work out in the future

 

before i have to pay that sum, i will happily build a house in another nearby, tourist friendly country. 

Thailand is very "tourist friendly", it's just not friendly towards those that think they can stay as long as they like on their terms with inappropriate visas. 

 

And the neighbouring countries are only more relaxed because they get a fraction of the visitors Thailand does and art under the same pressures to control numbers.

[ThomasThBKK]

40 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Yes, probably. But the fact that they now issue permission to stay in excess of 90 days means it is not issued on the basis of tourism. The change probably happened when they revamped and launched the new scheme.

May 2013 cabinet agreed to changes to the elite card sheme: https://www.pattayamail.com/travel/thailand-elite-card-ready-to-relaunch-26643

 

That's when the regulations must have been published, but impossible for me to find as non thai speaker.

 

If someone knows where these kind of cabinet meetings get publish let me know please.

[lkv]

20 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Sorry to disappoint but a Non-o is a proper visa, they can work legally on a non-o visa.

I specifically mentioned the multiple non O visa where the holder spends 360 days in Thailand, i.e. living in Thailand, doing visa runs every 90 days, when the purpose of this visa is for visiting for short periods. And yes, you can work while visiting (only valid when issued for marriage purpose, not retirement), also for short periods. Although many local IO's "encourage" the usage of a non B.

 

But let's believe there was a mistake happening when the UK embassies took it off the menu.

Edited July 13, 2019 by lkv

[Bangkok Barry]

22 hours ago, acenase said:

I haven't returned back to my homecountry and just using Thailand as a hub to travel around.

 

Why not choose a country where you are welcome as your base? What is so special about Thailand?

[acenase]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Only non-immigrant visa holders are supposed to be issued driving licences. That has been relaxed over the years at some offices.

 

I've never known anyone who could get a Thai drivers license on a tourist visa though. You need to show your passport with Non B visa

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, acenase said:

I've never known anyone who could get a Thai drivers license on a tourist visa though. You need to show your passport with Non B visa

There have been reports/claims of people getting a DL with a TR over the years. It's not restricted to Non B holders, although an individual office may impose that rule. At the very least you should have a non-immigrant visa/permit and proof of address from immigration.

[atecom]

14 minutes ago, acenase said:

 

I've never known anyone who could get a Thai drivers license on a tourist visa though. You need to show your passport with Non B visa

I got my 2 year licence at the Chiang Mai office on an METV.

[jackdd]

52 minutes ago, acenase said:

 

I've never known anyone who could get a Thai drivers license on a tourist visa though. You need to show your passport with Non B visa

Getting a driving license on a tourist visa is no big deal in all provinces except Bangkok

In Bangkok the problem is that in order to get a driving license you need a certificate of residence, and Immigration in Bangkok will only issue this after you have done a 90 day report, which you usually don't do with a regular tourist visa. Citizens of some countries can get the "certificate of residence" from their embassy, then they can get a Thai driving license in Bangkok, but that's not possible for everybody.

 

What i was talking about before is:

Usually the first Thai driving license will be valid for two years, and after this for 5 years.

But people who stay in Thailand on any kind of Tourist visa (SETV, METV, VOA, Visa exempt, Thailand Elite) will only be issued a two year driving license (they can renew it every two years), they can't get the 5 year version.

Edited July 13, 2019 by jackdd

[lkv]

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Whereas, the Cabinet passed a resolution on 29 July 2003, approving the Thailand Privilege Card Project as proposed by the Ministry of Tourism and Sports, whereby the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) was to implement the project in the form of limited company. "Thailand Privilege Card Company Limited" registered its incorporation under the Civil and Commercial Code on 29 August 2003, having the TAT as its sole shareholder and the registered capital of THB 1,000 million and having the status of state enterprise under the Budget Procedures Act B.E. 2502 (1959).  Its objectives are to generate revenues from foreign visitors; and draw high-end visitors, businessmen, investors and the long stay groups, by offering rights and services to members. Such services are from both public and private sectors, e.g. Visa Privilege, Special Entry Visa, and Privilege Entry Visa

There must be some law or resolution, surely Thailand Priviledge Card Company Limited, with TAT as a sole shareholder, has not been working along with Immigration in breaking Immigration law for the last few years.????

 

Perhaps a call to the friendly Elite center would help us. I'm sure the helpful girls at the end of the line can decipher this 90 day / 1 year mistery.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

They have added it to the requirements as of the 15th June as have France

 

For tourism and leisure activities

For Single Entry (stay up to 60 days) 

• A current passport with validity not less than 6 months and at least 2 blank pages. Applicants must fill in online visa application with their given name(s) and surname as appear in their passports.
• Printout of visa application form submitted online, with bar code
• Travel booking confirmation
• Proof of accommodation in Thailand e.g. hotel booking, invitation letter from family or friend in Thailand
• Financial evidence e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, sponsorship letter
• Confirmation of legal residence in the UK or Ireland (if applicants are not nationals of these countries) e.g. long stay visa, residence permit, BRP card
  
  http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84451-Tourist-Visa.html
  
  All other visa applications require confirmation of legal resident in the UK or Ireland
  
  
  http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html

Uh, oh. Looks like I’m seriously in trouble then. As far as I’m aware this was the only Embassy that was issuing visas regardless of your residency and your passport nationality.

 

What about Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Italy, Spain or Portugal? Any infos?

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, tcp7 said:

Uh, oh. Looks like I’m seriously in trouble then. As far as I’m aware this was the only Embassy that was issuing visas regardless of your residency and your passport nationality.

 

What about Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Italy, Spain or Portugal? Any infos?

General rule is that you have to apply in your home countries residence in europe. 

A friend tried it in germany and they refused todo it.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, tcp7 said:

Uh, oh. Looks like I’m seriously in trouble then. As far as I’m aware this was the only Embassy that was issuing visas regardless of your residency and your passport nationality.

 

What about Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Italy, Spain or Portugal? Any infos?

I don't believe that in Spain it has been possible to apply for a Thai visa without having residency for a long time. Germany is hard core even for it's own citizens and would be out for non residents. As the previous poster stated, Europe as whole, you need to be resident of the country you are applying in. London and France you could apply as non resident but now they have moved to E visa application, that door is closed. With E visa you have too apply in your own country or have residency in the country you wish to apply in.

[lkv]

4 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

don't believe that in Spain it has been possible to apply for a Thai visa without having residency for a long time.

I think if I make it to Spain, instead of going to the Thai Embassy, I might just feel like staying there. Bangkok prices are catching up quite fast with Madrid prices.

 

Saves money on the Elite crap also, for EU citizens.

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I don't believe that in Spain it has been possible to apply for a Thai visa without having residency for a long time. Germany is hard core even for it's own citizens and would be out for non residents. As the previous poster stated, Europe as whole, you need to be resident of the country you are applying in. London and France you could apply as non resident but now they have moved to E visa application, that door is closed. With E visa you have too apply in your own country or have residency in the country you wish to apply in.

Then I'm fuc#ed hardcore. Stupid ex wife having family ties to the staffers at the French embassy made sure I would never ever get a visa from them again.

 

How would I go about having a "fake" residency in UK as a frenchie? Any ideas?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, lkv said:

I think if I make it to Spain, instead of going to the Thai Embassy, I might just feel like staying there.

Not an option, got a new girlfriend, bought a house, got one daughter with the previous Thai wife and one kid on the way with the new girlfriend, running a business in Pattaya as well, scrapping it all up at 43 to start from scratch in Spain, not an option at all... besides all I can speak is French and English.