Prenups

[countem]

Hi all,

 

So... I want to get married to my GF who is Thai. I am Canadian. I want to spend the rest of my life with her in it, however, nothing in life is perfect, and anything can happen and I would like to get a prenup so that we both understand the arrangement we are getting into, and what would happen if we ever wanted an end to the marriage. So please, save the boring responses which will not answer the question such as "if you're not sure you shouldn't get married" or "it'll be one of the biggest mistakes of your life" I don't care for any of it :), and if it turns out to be a mistake, I'll learn from it, thank you very much.

So my question is, if I get a prenup in Thailand, will that hold up when we move and settle down in Canada? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[mike787]

Have you considered asking an attorney in the Canadian province where you intend to reside in?  That would be smart.

[Sanjay Jaybhay]

Its better to get a prenup in Thailand even if you dont have any assets in Thailand. The first place you get married the prenup I think should be done there. That should hold where ever you go Canada or any other country. Its not a gaurantee, but thats common sense I think. In Thailand if you have prenup all assets you own before marriage will be yours but the assets after marriage your wife will have a right on that. I am not expert but this is my knowledge. Talk with a lawyer to be sure. 

[Mikisteel]

Mention it to the GF before you spend a penny on lawyers. She'll likely consult her girls and after that who knows eh

[Puchaiyank]

Keep it simple! Don't!

[countem]

4 hours ago, mike787 said:

Have you considered asking an attorney in the Canadian province where you intend to reside in?  That would be smart.

Yep, looking into it.

 

1 hour ago, Mikisteel said:

Mention it to the GF before you spend a penny on lawyers. She'll likely consult her girls and after that who knows eh

Already spoke to her about it, she's got no problems.

 

5 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

Keep it simple! Don't!

Far from simple, buddy.

[StevieAus]

On 7/16/2019 at 12:13 AM, Sanjay Jaybhay said:

Its better to get a prenup in Thailand even if you dont have any assets in Thailand. The first place you get married the prenup I think should be done there. That should hold where ever you go Canada or any other country. Its not a gaurantee, but thats common sense I think. In Thailand if you have prenup all assets you own before marriage will be yours but the assets after marriage your wife will have a right on that. I am not expert but this is my knowledge. Talk with a lawyer to be sure. 

You cannot assume, whether you think it is commonsense or otherwise that entering into a prenuptial agreement in Thailand with have legal standing in another country.

I have no idea about what applies in Canada but from past experience in Australia if certain steps and procedures are not followed the agreement doesn’t have standing in that country never mind elsewhere.

Your last sentence makes sense but it needs to be a lawyer in Canada.

[spornb]

Generally the partner must have independent advice from a lawyer in the jurisdiction which it is likely to be needed, and BEFORE the marriage

 

If you want it to work in Canada advice from Canadian lawyer essential

[murraynz]

what is the point of a 'pre-nup' agreement, if you have no assets ??

any assets you may accumulate AFTER marriage become matrimonial/joint property...

be wary of thai lawyer advice, but of course your lady would need independent thai advise..

[weegee]

Simple answer for you.....NO !!...It wont hold up in your country.

 

[StevieAus]

2 hours ago, spornb said:

Generally the partner must have independent advice from a lawyer in the jurisdiction which it is likely to be needed, and BEFORE the marriage

 

If you want it to work in Canada advice from Canadian lawyer essential

You are correct I didn’t go into the detail but that was one of the requirements in Australia and the details have to be explained in the persons native language if it is not English.

 

[remorhaz]

At the current time even if you get a pre-nup in your own home country, signed by 12 lawyers and 20 judges, if some future judge finds it "unconscionable" it will be thrown out.  Mind you the only time this is done is if she doesn't get as much as a judge would give her in the absence of a pre-nup .... which is the point of the document itself so why do it?  Well it can't hurt you... usually but I have seen such submitted as proof of abuse so be careful there and be as generous as you can be in it.  The more of your own stuff you try to keep the better the chance of it being used as toilet paper by the judge just saying.

 

Your best bet if you insist on getting married and nobody can convince you otherwise is to make a habit of hiding funds. You keep a separate bank account that only you know about preferably in a company name or such and every month you put aside 10%.  Best to have this done from your employer so that your paycheck is automatically XXX and that is what the wife sees not some regular transfer from your account every month.  If things go South and you're in Canada the first thing that is going to happen is they are going to freeze your accounts so having another account to draw upon for purposes of a hotel room, bail (when you're falsely accused), lawyer money (her lawyer is free to her and they'll bill you for him), and food will be essential.  Sorry to be a Debby downer but I am older and I have seen this happen again and again and again.  Nothing wrong with preparation for the worst.  If at the very end you are there in a hospital bed dying of natural causes and the beep beep machine is about to stop and there is your faithful wife next to you it is possible for you to THEN hand her the bank card and code(s) and all is well.  This sure beats being released at 3am after 9 days in jail only to wander out looking for a warm steam grate to sleep on and praying you can beg enough for McDonalds (this happens... a lot).

Edited July 19, 2019 by remorhaz
grammar

[edwardflory]

Just a thought:

A marriage certificate is a legal contract between a man and a woman, so is a pre-nup.

IF married IN Thailand I would get a pre-nup here and have an ampor stamp on it - same ampor that marries you.

( Am a former Private Investigator in Ontario )

When LEGALLY admitted ( "landed immigrant" - in Canada ) the country honors marriages and pre-nups.

Edited July 19, 2019 by edwardflory
info

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, edwardflory said:

Just a thought:

A marriage certificate is a legal contract between a man and a woman, so is a pre-nup.

IF married IN Thailand I would get a pre-nup here and have an ampor stamp on it - same ampor that marries you.

( Am a former Private Investigator in Ontario )

A marriage is a contract that is evidently freely entered into by nature of the ceremony, which is held in public. There is nothing public about a prenup and no evidence about being freely entered into. Since Thailand explicity states that foreign civil laws cannot be enforced in Thailand (the reason why a Thai Will has to cover assets in Thailand), the only prenup with any validity would have to be a Thai one

[4MyEgo]

On 7/16/2019 at 2:17 AM, countem said:

and if it turns out to be a mistake, I'll learn from it, thank you very much.

Wise words and I applaud you for seeking information about prenuptial agreements which I understand are referred to as domestic or marriage contracts in Canada.

 

So you will require one for each country:

 

The below are quick comments from a Google search:

 

Prenuptial Agreements — or Marriage Contracts as they are known in Canada —do hold up in Court. However, they hold up in Court if they are based on full disclosure as to income, assets, debts and liabilities and, most importantly, they seem fair.

 

Thailand Prenuptial Agreement. Thailand prenuptial agreement or "Thai prenup"is a written contract created by two people before they are married. A Thai prenuptypically lists all of the property each person owns (as well as any debts) and specifies what each person's property rights will be after the marriage.

 

I took out a prenuptial agreement 12 years ago in Australia, I sought the advice of a Family Law Specialist, not your usual solicitor/Lawyer as a Family Law Specialist deals with family law day in, day out, whereas Solicitors/Lawyers deal in all other aspects of law, be it criminal or property etc etc, so they can take on a lot, but know little in family law and just brush their ways through, so you get what you pay for.

 

The above said, your family law specialist will advise you to say for example to buy her a block of dirt in Thailand as a fall back position for her if things go pear-shape, i.e. she has something when she walks away, couple hundred thousand baht should do it, and a life insurance policy of $100k while your married.

 

I paid about $500 for him to draw up and sign the agreement and he arranged for her to see another lawyer downtown to offer her independent advice, which cost me another $500, that lawyer kept telling her she should be seeking more with her leaving his office an hour later telling him 1,000 times she is not after my money and what I have done for her was enough and she was happy with it, he ended up getting her to sign a waiver for him.

 

Go do what you got to do and get it down ass-up, as a mate of mine who recently got married didn't get one done, because he didn't have the balls to tell her how it is and if she leaves him tomorrow with 2 kids, he will be a minimum 75% out of assets or 1.5mAUS.

 

As he says, no point in crying over spilt milk, well, let's hope it never gets to that because that beautiful big tattoo of hers all covered up on her back and legs confirmed to me what he said she was, i.e. a good girl that he met in a shopping centre, not like mine, no tattoo's and straight out of a bar ????

 

EDIT: Be warned, prenuptials change when you have kids, e.g. the judge might rule that as the agreement was done before the kids, and as you now have kids you should contribute to the kids from your assets, and might award 10% 20% 30% of your assets and if you don't like it, then you will be spending tens of thousands of $'s appealing the judge's decision so you might want to get the snip or her, but at least if you do you know you did, know what I mean ?

 

Judges will do this so that society doesn't cop the brunt end of your divorce, similar to a marriage without a prenuptial, so makes you wonder if it's worth having kids if you have a prenuptial, each to their own, I have 2 with her and am as happy as a pig in mud, assets can also be sold within the press of a button and transferred to an offshore account within 60 seconds, that's my fall back position, my finances have nothing to do with love.

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[cobra]

As previous poster(s) have alluded to, and also told to me by several divorce lawyers in the States, pretty much any prenup can be over-turned or thrown out, 

 

Usual arguments, one party did not fully understand implications, was under duress, etc,

 

Do not know legal specifics for Canada or LOS,

I think the concept of a prenup or similar contract is still a good idea regardless.

Good luck.

[Captain 776]

If properly executed here in Thailand, it absolutely holds up in USA

[SoonOh]

https://www.legalline.ca if you wont find answer, ask lawyer in your province

 

in thai, write what you want, translate by approved translator  https://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/thailand-thailande/consular_services_consulaires/translation-traduction.aspx?lang=eng 

 

Before marriage day, District Office Amphur official should certified your Prenup. Send original to your Canadian residence by EMS registered letter. 

Do Not waste your money on thai lawyers,  You will need later 

Have fun

Hope we hear for you in few years 

 

[xtrnuno41]

Did prenup (in Indonesia) married there with Indonesian, divorced here by that prenup.

Not it came really into the matter, as she knew we had one.

I never thought about how it wouldnt be valid in my country. So maybe i was lucky.

However prenup is known in many countries, so should be legal and working in laws. 

If you marry in Thailand and stay there, by law, all assets prior for marriage, would be yours.

Only assets gained in marriage over there, would have to be divided 50/50. But thats Thailand law.

If you change from country, going to Canada, you have to convert for being married in Canada, you ll have to go

tell you are married and then for Canadian law are married. You will stay there and has marriage by Canadian laws.

Then again with a divorce you will have your prenup and should be valid in your country. It is a contract between the 2 of you

and should be valid also in your country. However if you divorce in Canada, rules (laws) about marriage are working there.

MAybe then you will have to pay alimony for her and other things which arent in the prenup. 

I did put up in prenup, i wouldnt pay for alimony, as it was there i didnt and she accepted. However i wouldnt know if it would stand 

up against local laws here. But then again it is a contract you make and would be valid.

Nowadays i would do it different and check all first of what or what isnt possible with prenup by a lawyer in mariages 

[helloagain]

On 7/15/2019 at 11:54 PM, mike787 said:

Have you considered asking an attorney in the Canadian province where you intend to reside in?  That would be smart.

Yes 5555 

[RocketDog]

OP: the single wisest thing you can do is what you are doing. Seek advice, weigh it, do your research, pay your money and take your chances.

 

Whatever time and money you spend now doing this may well save you many times more in grief later.

 

Divorce law varies so greatly from country to country, is fluid, and judges are always a wild card. There are never any guarantees in love, marriage, or divorce. You already know that.

 

I applaud your studied approach.

 

Good luck.