PM candidates set high bar for Brexit talks: no Irish backstop

[welovesundaysatspace]

Assuming this is not just show (which might be the case) he’s doing the same mistake as May did: Cornering himself with no way out. The EU will not drop the backstop, while the UK parliament will not accept a hard Brexit. It’ll be more extensions. Unless this is just a show to get him the PM job (which could very we’ll be the case). 

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

and ignore almost half the nation, we aren't yet so enlightened as to have proportional representation so the rest can get stuffed, that will work.

If you had won you wouldn't be bitching. Suck it up and move on.

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

But not a majority of the UK population that could vote. 52%-48% in the referendum, hardly a overwhelming figure, and only 37% of the number of voters in the UK. 

It was the biggest ever vote for anything in UK history. Live with it.

[Small Joke]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

You are a bit late there, every country has its day, we were great, it's gone, it is early mist, Americas wind down is coming, a nation that went from barbarism to decadence without the usual interval of civilisation in between is encountering Asia like a startled deer in the headlights. The Uk will retire quietly back to what it was, an island in the North sea, allowed greatness by the grace of God for two hundred years.

This is actually rather erudite compared to your trolling form. I've also abused the mods, so I'll be banned for 'life' soon! IDGAF it was worth it! Just landed here to make sure they do it! The one-eyed <deleted>! 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Small Joke

[Loiner]

Really? You obviously didn't live through the troubles. Almost all of the deaths and mayhem took place in the UK. Sorry but there's no way that we want to return to that.

You obviously didn’t either. Try asking any of the numerous Irish posters here. We don’t know where you were or what you were doing, but judging by your comment, probably not in the UK or NI. Mainland UK suffered much less than the Irish in NI.

[Loiner]

No fear of that.
There will be a hard border with a no-deal Brexit.
Irish born in Northern Ireland will not become Republic of Ireland citizens.
The UK and Northern Ireland will have to either stop trade across the Republic of Ireland border or accept a hard border as EU will have every else involving trade with the UK as a consequence of Brexit.

Guessing that’s an EU fanatic’s opinion. Neither the UK nor Ireland will permit that to happen. There’s too much trade, particularly for The Irish who generally adopt the same attitude as Thais to laws and rules they don’t like.
Possibly the smugglers will support you idea, in the expectation of boom times for them.

[bannork]

3 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

It was the biggest ever vote for anything in UK history. Live with it.

It still was only a minority of UK voters who voted to leave the EU. Live with that.

[bomber]

3 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

I was a war baby and remember with enormous pride and admiration how my parents' generation build a new Jerusalem from the wreckage of the old.

 

The challenges we faced back then were far greater than any posed by Brexit. If we fail it will be because of the pessimistic defeatism your posting epitomises.  

 

So man up - or, to quote the immortal bard, "Screw your courage to the sticking place and we'll not fail".

more going back 70-80 years from brexiteers,the world has moved on if you hadnt noticed,even if the UK had great leaders like in the past they wouldnt have one iota of a chance of making brexit work the fact we have a bunch of clowns worse than anything in the EU makes it lose lose lose for the UK,the one thing these clowns will not let happen is the break up of the UK and that is where your brexit dream will end.

[Laughing Gravy]

12 hours ago, petemoss said:

Whichever candidate gets elected it will be the same result vis-a-vis a no deal Brexit. Boris is short odds favourite to win.

 

It's not me that's predicting it , it's what both candidates have announced. Tune in to UK news if you don't believe me. The rest is what the bookies and the money markets are predicting. Don't shoot the messenger.

Is that the same bookies that predicted leave would lose in the referendum. The same bookies who said Boris would never become PM. Your confidence in bookies is about as sound as closing your eyes and pointing your finger on the horse racing page and finding a winner.

[petemoss]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

You obviously didn’t either. Try asking any of the numerous Irish posters here. We don’t know where you were or what you were doing, but judging by your comment, probably not in the UK or NI. Mainland UK suffered much less than the Irish in NI.

Read the post I replied to. The original poster referred to Ireland as in the Republic of Ireland. Northern Ireland is in the UK. I suggest that you aquire some basic comprehension skills before you attack/troll people.

[petemoss]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

Guessing that’s an EU fanatic’s opinion. Neither the UK nor Ireland will permit that to happen. There’s too much trade, particularly for The Irish who generally adopt the same attitude as Thais to laws and rules they don’t like.
Possibly the smugglers will support you idea, in the expectation of boom times for them.

The only way the UK can prevent a hard border is not to leave with no deal. That's a fact. Stop dreaming and chasing those pink unicorns. No deal=hard border.

[canopus1969]

12 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Say goodbye to Northern Ireland and then Scotland....grand isolation, as one politician said in the early days of the NHS, "here's a fine vision, free teeth and nought to bite on"

If that were to happen (but let's face it, it never would as they would be both too scared to leave the Union) then it would save England a fortune

[JonnyF]

Excellent news. Forget what Hunt said, he's simply a lying Remainer just like May was (Brexit means Brexit, No deal is better than a bad deal etc.) and has zero chance of election. 

 

Johnson will be PM, and he will stand up to Brussels and tell them "nice try" but May's pathetic surrender treaty is dead. Forget your backstop, forget your 39 Billion. If you want a hard border to protect your precious single market and customs union then you better start building one, chop chop. If you want a sensible trade deal, come and talk to us after we've left. Considering your trade surplus and faltering economy, we recommend you come over to London to discuss it ASAP. No need to bring Juncker.

[stephenterry]

25 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Excellent news. Forget what Hunt said, he's simply a lying Remainer just like May was (Brexit means Brexit, No deal is better than a bad deal etc.) and has zero chance of election. 

 

Johnson will be PM, and he will stand up to Brussels and tell them "nice try" but May's pathetic surrender treaty is dead. Forget your backstop, forget your 39 Billion. If you want a hard border to protect your precious single market and customs union then you better start building one, chop chop. If you want a sensible trade deal, come and talk to us after we've left. Considering your trade surplus and faltering economy, we recommend you come over to London to discuss it ASAP. No need to bring Juncker.

Before BJ takes an arrogant stand, it's worth remembering that while the UK imports more from the EU than it exports, the impact on the UK's economy in the event of the EU responding to BJ, 'go and stuff it where the sun don't shine', would be far greater than the effect on the EU for the very simple reason that the EU economy is immensely larger. As is the USA and China economies (see below).

 

However, there is a very good rationale for BJ to take a firm evidence-based stand (which I'm not sure he is up to the job) to provide analysis that the UK's economy would grow at a much greater rate (as it has recently outperformed both Germany and France) if it was to leave the EU and not be constricted in making deals elsewhere. 

 

At the end of the day, the EU is not going away nor is their huge single market however much leavers think it would, therefore the UK simply has to make trading agreements with them.  To follow the above post's sentiments is simply an insular approach that is not workable - in today's global economy, where I'm sure China would be willing to fill that gap. 

 

IMO, China would be the greatest threat to the UK's economy thriving, as it is with the USA who are trillions in debt to China - hence why Trump has attempted to balance out tariffs to reduce their liability.

 

 

 

[usviphotography]

20 hours ago, petemoss said:

Really? You obviously didn't live through the troubles. Almost all of the deaths and mayhem took place in the UK. Sorry but there's no way that we want to return to that.

You are missing the point. None of this is a problem for the UK. UK can quite easily in the short to medium term take the position that they will do nothing to change the current status of the Ulster-Ireland border. It is the EU that needs that border to become hard, not the UK. And bringing back a hard border is political suicide for any Irish politician. Punt the problem to the EU, and give them a political crisis. Now you are negotiating from a position of strength rather than weakness. Art of the Deal 101. 

[petemoss]

5 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

You are missing the point. None of this is a problem for the UK. UK can quite easily in the short to medium term take the position that they will do nothing to change the current status of the Ulster-Ireland border. It is the EU that needs that border to become hard, not the UK. And bringing back a hard border is political suicide for any Irish politician. Punt the problem to the EU, and give them a political crisis. Now you are negotiating from a position of strength rather than weakness. Art of the Deal 101. 

You clearly don't understand the situation. No customs union means customs at the border. It's not just about the money, goods have to meet import restrictions so must be checked.

 

The EU most certainly would impose a border, it's the law.

 

I don't think that either the UK or the EU would take Trump's advice on how to make deals. Not a very good track record on making deals.

Edited July 17, 2019 by petemoss

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Johnson will be PM, and he will stand up to Brussels and tell them "nice try" but May's pathetic surrender treaty is dead. Forget your backstop, forget your 39 Billion.

50% of the UK’s exports are to the EU. The UK will be very eager to sort out the future trade relationship with the EU. And that discussion will not even start before the backstop, EU citizen rights and the divorce bill are agreed. 

 

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

If you want a hard border to protect your precious single market and customs union then you better start building one, chop chop.

Unlike those fantasy technological solutions that Brexiteers chase in lala land, border checks are not difficult to implement. 

 

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

If you want a sensible trade deal, come and talk to us after we've left.

Again, who’s relying 50% on whom, and who only 7%? Nuff said. 

 

[Loiner]

Read the post I replied to. The original poster referred to Ireland as in the Republic of Ireland. Northern Ireland is in the UK. I suggest that you aquire some basic comprehension skills before you attack/troll people.

I suggest you need to be clearer with your misinformation before you squeal troll again. Or do you not know what you are posting, until you try to wriggle our of it again?

[Loiner]

The only way the UK can prevent a hard border is not to leave with no deal. That's a fact. Stop dreaming and chasing those pink unicorns. No deal=hard border.

Not a fact at all. Stop making up rules to back up your Project Fear assertions.
No Deal = UK choice. When the UK does not implement a hard border, who will?

[Loiner]

You clearly don't understand the situation. No customs union means customs at the border. It's not just about the money, goods have to meet import restrictions so must be checked.
 
The EU most certainly would impose a border, it's the law.
 
I don't think that either the UK or the EU would take Trump's advice on how to make deals. Not a very good track record on making deals.

It’s you that does not understand. There has been a functioning border between UK and Ireland for years now. There is no need to change that situation.
Not every import is checked, nor does it need to be done at the border.
If the EU were to build their own border, do you think Southern Irish Garda would man it for them?