Thanathorn admits Thais cannot rely on foreigners to fight for democracy

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, fishtank said:

Not by Thais you don't.

Granted,not by so many Thais but some and I have noticed that this is slowly changing about as slowly as the march towards democracy.I have noticed I no longer see the pickups roaming around in search for dogs to sell for culinary purposes. 

[soalbundy]

27 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

They had close to what could have eventually evolved into a real democracy at various times.

The Thais just failed by their lack of both interest and determination to keep it.

So ? Name me any country that has real democracy ( a mythical word that is) I can remember a wise old man in the UK when I was doing my apprenticeship telling me ;- "When industry is booming you will be forced to do all the overtime possible, when there is a recession you will be unemployed and when there is war you will be stuck in a uniform and told to kill some poor sod like yourself or be killed for a group of champagne scoffing elites safe in London"

[KhunFred]

2 hours ago, Lungstib said:

The powers that have ruled for 80 years have ensured that no foreigners living here in Thailand can have any effect so I assume he is talking about outside countries. Why would they care, business is business.

Business is the key to ALL political maneuvers. Business interests WILL be protected at all costs. Were it not for business, there would have been several "extractions" of US prisoners held in Thai prisons for "heinous" acts such as violating the Computer Crimes law, as well as another "crime" that cannot be mentioned.

[KhunFred]

Most other countries under unsatisfactory regimes, freed themselves with bloody uprisings. The French Revolution was the single finest moment for freedom surpassing even the American Revolution. Any such revolution in Thailand, would take YEARS to execute those who deserve to die for their criminal acts against the state.

[Enzian]

When a major Cambodian politician admitted he consulted an outside country (the USA) for suggestions on how to improve democracy in that country, he was forced into exile. Not that it could happen here, but anyone should think carefully about "interference" from outside.

[Joker Man]

Ask a Thai person and he/She will tell you that ''Thailand number one''

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, petemoss said:

Also, a large percentage of Thai people would not want or appreciate our help, it's all about "face".

I'm sure a large proportion of countries have a similar situation in regards to outside help.In regards to the face issue here they call it losing face in english speaking countries we call it stubbornness,which is quite common in the west,I know a lot of falang go on about this loss of face thing and many other issues here in Thailand but I see most counties seem to suffer from the same maladies and in about the same quantities.It seems to me it's part of the look what they are doing and don't look at what I'm doing because if you see what I'm doing you might see something I don't want you to see.

[Fex Bluse]

Anyone who understands Thailand might suspect Khun Thanathorn is just playing to the necessary Thai anti-western sentiment. 

 

He was recently in EU to bolster support to democracy. 

 

Meanwhile, here in Thailand, his opposition were fomenting the anti-western sentiments of Thais, saying things like

 

... "don't let the international community mess up our Thai efforts" and

 

... "don't allow westerners to meddle in Thai affairs" 

 

Now he's back in Thailand doing the necessary 'farangs are bad routine' to win back political points to prove he is a "real" Thai. 

 

For the people who long thought he is some kind of newly modern Thai savior, or even represents significant progress, I still encourage you all to think deeper about the real soul of the nation which is decidedly xenophobic. 

 

The young Thais dislike western ideas sns influence just as much as their grandparents, despite their superficial interests in iPhones and high fashion. 

 

Thanathorn is probably just like all other Thais before him. No significant differences. 

[ocddave]

Maybe he hasn't met with the CIA yet, they love a challenge ????

[mikebell]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

No foreigners will help to effect changes and restore democracy in Thailand

This is because Prayuth & co fear farangs empowering Thais with opinions and criticisms so they use Immigration laws & police traps to persuade them to move to Vietnam.

This seems to be his only successful policy to date.

[soalbundy]

Just now, KhunFred said:

Most other countries under unsatisfactory regimes, freed themselves with bloody uprisings. The French Revolution was the single finest moment for freedom surpassing even the American Revolution. Any such revolution in Thailand, would take YEARS to execute those who deserve to die for their criminal acts against the state.

Trouble is once you use violence it is difficult to know when to stop, the French revolution ate its own children because they became power mad and lost all reason, Khmer rouge was the same, the English civil war ended with a defeat of the royalists but Cromwell started oppressing the people, the American civil war had, and in some states still has, problems with the outcome, it is all just senseless slaughter of the innocents and rarely solves anything (perhaps in the long run yes if you wait a few generations)

[petemoss]

16 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

So ? Name me any country that has real democracy ( a mythical word that is) I can remember a wise old man in the UK when I was doing my apprenticeship telling me ;- "When industry is booming you will be forced to do all the overtime possible, when there is a recession you will be unemployed and when there is war you will be stuck in a uniform and told to kill some poor sod like yourself or be killed for a group of champagne scoffing elites safe in London"

Picky.

 

Agree that no country applies democracy as it was applied in Athens in the 5th century B.C.

 

However, I do think that the UK complies much more closely to the modern concept of democracy than Thailand does.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

 

"No consensus exists on how to define democracy, but legal equality, political freedom and rule of law have been identified as important characteristics.^[12][13] These principles are reflected in all eligible citizens being equal before the law and having equal access to legislative processes."

[Joker Man]

1 minute ago, mikebell said:

This is because Prayuth & co fear farangs empowering Thais with opinions and criticisms so they use Immigration laws & police traps to persuade them to move to Vietnam.

This seems to be his only successful policy to date.

And does he thinks he is doing the right thing? 

[soalbundy]

Just now, ocddave said:

Maybe he hasn't met with the CIA yet, they love a challenge ????

They just keep getting it wrong big time and cause more problems than if they had kept out of it.

[petemoss]

6 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

Thanathorn is probably just like all other Thais before him. No significant differences. 

I agree, if you are talking about the Thai Elite. Wealthy Thai Chin family, born into relative entitlement. If he ever did get into power, I'm sure his first task would be to increase his own family's wealth and power. Remember Taksin?

[ocddave]

Just now, soalbundy said:

They just keep getting it wrong big time and cause more problems than if they had kept out of it.

I'm an American, I agree with you, they should have been reigned in years ago.....I would love to see them shutdown, or at least purged.

[Lucius verus]

Its not our fault. Why would farangs want to help ungrateful Thais anymore? All they want from us is money and free homes for their poor families.

Soi dogs are higher up the pecking order than farangs.

What do farangs legally own?

You want democracy then get rid of all the thousands of useless army generals and bring back Thaksin. He's greedy but millions  love him. Good for the economy.

You're on your own Thais!

You dug your own hole so lie in it.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Lucius verus

[holy cow cm]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Thanathorn said that Thai people must wake up and fight against dictatorship if they want a society where there is rule of law, equality for all and democracy.

I think he may get into trouble for this statement as officially released publicly by the big shots, Thailand has been transformed from a military control to the public domain, NCPO disbanded and replaced with an equally same non military watch dog, and Democratic Elections were a success thus bringing Thailand in-line with all the rest of the Democratic Nations of the World. 

 

I would be afraid that this now falls under a National Security issue as it is spreading false rumors and trying to undermine a legitimate and accepted government. But we all know the real truth, don't we!

[ocddave]

Just now, petemoss said:

I agree, if you are talking about the Thai Elite. Wealthy Thai Chin family, born into relative entitlement. If he ever did get into power, I'm sure his first task would be to increase his own family's wealth and power. Remember Taksin?

Which applies to all Thai's, and is the reason I consider this country a failed society.

[soalbundy]

Just now, petemoss said:

Picky.

 

Agree that no country applies democracy as it was applied in Athens in the 5th century B.C.

 

However, I do think that the UK complies much more closely to the modern concept of democracy than Thailand does.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

 

"No consensus exists on how to define democracy, but legal equality, political freedom and rule of law have been identified as important characteristics.^[12][13] These principles are reflected in all eligible citizens being equal before the law and having equal access to legislative processes."

really? they have done away with legal aid for a start so only if you have money could you sue a government department that withholds your rights. As the American saying goes, "Capital punishment is for those that don't have the capital"

[ocddave]

1 minute ago, holy cow cm said:

I think he may get into trouble for this statement as officially released publicly by the big shots, Thailand has been transformed from a military control to the public domain, NCPO disbanded and replaced with an equally same non military watch dog, and Democratic Elections were a success thus bringing Thailand in-line with all the rest of the Democratic Nations of the World. 

 

I would be afraid that this now falls under a National Security issue as it is spreading false rumors and trying to undermine a legitimate and accepted government. But we all know the real truth, don't we!

No such thing exists, or has ever existed, in Thailand.

[Orton Rd]

2 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

The Thais can not even organise and fight for themselves, never had never will, always always preferring to take a quick buck from anyone, irrespective of their social status, so why should foreigners even want to help them ?

They were getting organized in 2010 before the army shot over 90 dead in the street and since then it has been illegal for more than 5 to gather to demonstrate, it's not that they have not tried but each time they do they get kicked down.

[petemoss]

1 minute ago, holy cow cm said:

Thailand has been transformed from a military control to the public domain, NCPO disbanded and replaced with an equally same non military watch dog, and Democratic Elections were a success thus bringing Thailand in-line with all the rest of the Democratic Nations of the World. 

 

Really? When did that happen? I must have missed that. And here's me labouring under the misconception that Prayut and his cronies are still in control of the country.

[moe666]

3 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

If foreigners did try to help, they would be met with suspicion...agree not purchase alcoholic beverages except at predetermined times...censorship of TV programming, bring with them large sums of baht (must come from out of the country), report to immigration all their movements and trips out of country and agree to ùnanounced  visits by Thai officials at any time...facial recoginition and finger printing, and live constantly with the angst that an immigration official having a bad day could expel them from the country with no recourse...

 

It's all good!  Foreigners are clamoring to do the heavy lifting to bring about a democratic government for Thailand...????

 

 

The source of help he is refering to is not you, me or your buddies drinking down at the 7-11. 

[petemoss]

Just now, moe666 said:

The source of help he is refering to is not you, me or your buddies drinking down at the 7-11. 

Well he could do worse, he could ask Trump for help.

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, Jimbo in Thailand said:

——

The current extremely lazy spineless 'sabai sabai' culture/society waiting for a miracle—by others—just doesn't cut it.  YES, the local citizens are getting exactly what they deserve.  But sadly, too many of us retired expats who loved Thailand enough to pull up stakes and move here are caught between a rock and a hard place.

So you're saying  you love the extremely lazy spineless 'sabai sabai' culture well I would have join with you on that because that's why I moved here but then I found out that I must have married the only hard working in your face and as far removed from sabai sabai as you can get thai woman in Thailand!Bugger!

[Fex Bluse]

11 minutes ago, petemoss said:

I agree, if you are talking about the Thai Elite. Wealthy Thai Chin family, born into relative entitlement. If he ever did get into power, I'm sure his first task would be to increase his own family's wealth and power. Remember Taksin?

Yes, that's exactly part of what I mean. 

 

So many westerners fall for this Asian trap everytime of thinking that just because there are 2 or more opposing political sides, that the sides are necessarily ideologically different. 

 

The rich Thai Chinese, as a class, are in fact mostly all the same at a fundamental level and only show superficial differences. 

 

For example, there are attributes they all MUST show to be considered Thai. 

 

Then there are attributes they would not give up that reflect their Chinese ethnic heritage. 

 

These two groupings of attributes alone mean they could NEVER build anything approaching a democracy. It's not in their DNA. 

[sabian]

I think we restored democracy once before with the cost of thousands of lives. A lesson that isn’t even taught in your School history. 

[Fex Bluse]

Thais like to call their democracy 

 

Democracy with Thai Characteristics 

 

But they should call it

 

Democracy with (decidedly Undemocratic) Thai Characteristics 

[holy cow cm]

26 minutes ago, ocddave said:

No such thing exists, or has ever existed, in Thailand.

Tell that to them in how they just released it to the media publicly. Seem to have covered all of their angles. We all know the real deal though.