Two 90 Day/TM30 reports from friends

[BrianBkyn]

This is all getting crazy.

 

One friend had to go through an agent to get his i year extension for various reasons here in Bangkok a few weeks back. But the Agent told him it had to be done in Pattaya as their connections in Bangkok had been closed. So he had to go with them and much to surprise it went ok though he had to wait nearly a week to get his passport back. But his 90 days came up and he went to Bumrungrad to do it. They told him that he needed a TM30 which he doesn't have but they would send it in and see if it was approved. It wasn't of course because since he got his extension in Pattaya he would have to do that in Pattaya. He still didn't have a TM30 but he went down the night before, stayed in a hotel, got a copy of his TM30 from them and it went fine.

 

The other friend also went to Bumrungrad yesterday with a TM30 for his 90-day and they told him that they could not submit it because it had to be signed by an officer at CW! So he goes out and it takes him 8 hours to get his 90 day report done. He says that was it. He will be leaving. Sillier and sillier. 

[Pilotman]

Not much of that makers sense.  How did your friend submit an extension and a TM30 in the Jomtien Office without an address in Chon Buri Province? If he lives in Bangkok, as I understand it, that is where he does all his immigration stuff. if he has never submitted a TM30 how has he managed before this and why didn't he get fined at some point?  The TM30 is not connected directly to the 90 day report, only in so much as you are confirming your address on a previously submitted basis.  The TM47 is used in some offices for the 90 day report, although not it seems in Jomtien. All seems a bit odd, or am I missing something in the story?  Maybe someone else knows the true facts here. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Pilotman

[NCC1701A]

14 minutes ago, BrianBkyn said:

But the Agent told him it had to be done in Pattaya as their connections in Bangkok had been closed.

mistake.

14 minutes ago, BrianBkyn said:

So he had to go with them and much to surprise it went ok though he had to wait nearly a week to get his passport back.

but not really though.

 

15 minutes ago, BrianBkyn said:

They told him that he needed a TM30 which he doesn't have but they would send it in and see if it was approved. It wasn't of course because since he got his extension in Pattaya he would have to do that in Pattaya.

where is the "agent" in all of this?

 

16 minutes ago, BrianBkyn said:

with a TM30 for his 90-day

[jackdd]

42 minutes ago, BrianBkyn said:

One friend had to go through an agent to get his i year extension for various reasons here in Bangkok a few weeks back. But the Agent told him it had to be done in Pattaya as their connections in Bangkok had been closed. So he had to go with them and much to surprise it went ok though he had to wait nearly a week to get his passport back. But his 90 days came up and he went to Bumrungrad to do it. They told him that he needed a TM30 which he doesn't have but they would send it in and see if it was approved. It wasn't of course because since he got his extension in Pattaya he would have to do that in Pattaya. He still didn't have a TM30 but he went down the night before, stayed in a hotel, got a copy of his TM30 from them and it went fine.

Not cheating the system might have helped

 

43 minutes ago, BrianBkyn said:

The other friend also went to Bumrungrad yesterday with a TM30 for his 90-day and they told him that they could not submit it because it had to be signed by an officer at CW! So he goes out and it takes him 8 hours to get his 90 day report done. He says that was it. He will be leaving. Sillier and sillier. 

What had to be signed by an officer at CW? The TM30 was from BKK or where?

[overherebc]

37 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

mistake.

but not really though.

 

where is the "agent" in all of this?

 

Where is the agent?

Enjoying his money. He has no further interest.

[BrianBkyn]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Not much of that makers sense.  

I know. Exactly. But that is what happened. His address was the hotel he stayed in for one night. He has to go to Pattaya now every 90 days because that is where he got his extension done - though he had a Bangkok address. It is crazy. He will get the TM30 from the hotel every time. My guess based on nothing is that Pattaya knows exactly what is going on but also knows how he got his extension and so passed him through. Don't rock the boat. This may catch up with him at some point if these discrepancies are noticed by someone.

[BrianBkyn]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

What had to be signed by an officer at CW? The TM30 was from BKK or where?

Yes - this friend had a legitimate TM30 from his condo in Bangkok and was told by Bumrungrad that it had to be signed by an immigration officer at CW before they could accept it. Which makes no sense because then he figured he might as well do the 90 day out there. His number was 347 in the queue.

[BrianBkyn]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

Where is the agent?

Enjoying his money. He has no further interest.

Yes at this point the Agent is out of it. He was a sleaze from all I have heard. At Nana Sq. 

[BertM]

53 minutes ago, BrianBkyn said:

I know. Exactly. But that is what happened. His address was the hotel he stayed in for one night. He has to go to Pattaya now every 90 days because that is where he got his extension done - though he had a Bangkok address. It is crazy. He will get the TM30 from the hotel every time. My guess based on nothing is that Pattaya knows exactly what is going on but also knows how he got his extension and so passed him through. Don't rock the boat. This may catch up with him at some point if these discrepancies are noticed by someone.

If your friend met all the requirements, he could have gotten the extension in BK. Either, he didn't meet the requirements or the agent just didn't want to deal with CW. In either case, he now has an extension, so he can keep going to Jomtien for his 90-day reports or he can (should) change his address to BK (like I did last year). I moved to Bangkok in Jan 2017, but did my extension in Jomtien in Sep 2017 even though I was living in BK. I put my BK address on the forms, but they either didn't care or didn't look at it. I changed my address at CW in Bangkok in Sep 2018 when I did my last extension, so now I file in BK. So, if your friend meets all the requirements next year, he can change his address and do his extension in BK. If he doesn't meet the requirements, then he's at the mercy of the agents I guess... That's the best I can figure...

Edited July 19, 2019 by BertM

[MRToMRT]

I am confused....

 

"The other friend also went to Bumrungrad yesterday with a TM30 for his 90-day and they told him that they could not submit it because it had to be signed by an officer at CW! So he goes out and it takes him 8 hours to get his 90 day report done. He says that was it. He will be leaving. Sillier and sillier."

 

Does one now need a TM30 receipt to do a 90 day report at CW? (I must have missed this)

[griffon2011]

This situation sort of explains the problems I had at CW yesterday.  On July 2 I gave my passport to a BKK agent to do my 90 day report due on July 8th.  I asked her to check on the TM30 and let me know if there was a problem with that. I contacted her on the 9th to check the status and it was promised on Friday 12th. On Friday no call and office locked. I finally got my passport back late on Monday the 15th but with no receipt.  Thinking she did not file it and I was late I went to CW and explained to the IO that I didn't think the agent filed the 90 day.  She checked and said she did file but at another office and that was not good and I was going to have a problem at the next 90 day.  I asked what kind of problem and she just stared through me and did not reply.  I asked how to fix it and got the same blank look and no reply.  My landlord who was there to address any TM30 issues asked her to print out a new copy of the 90 day receipt from her computer and she said "No, go see your agent."  I asked to file a new 90 day and again got no reply and a this "conversation" is over stare so I just walked out wondering <deleted> that was all about.  Today I went to the agent and she said my passport got mixed up with a batch going to another office.  I don't know what to believe and not sure where to go from here.  Any suggestions? 

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[lamyai3]

This is just one example of what could go wrong with using agents in the modern era of immigration. Until the rules on the 800k were changed, agents were basically a one stop deal - you paid your money, they fixed your papers, and you got your extension. No retrospective checks were made by immigration, and your next year extension was a totally unrelated matter, at which time you could use the same agent, a different one, or bring in the money to season and do it by yourself. Any 90 day reporting offered by agents was just there to sweeten the deal, but you could just as easily choose to file these yourself, and until April there was zero complication on 90 day reports in CW and most other places, as the TM30 was never asked for there.

 

Fast forward to the current situation - the role of the agent is now very different from before, in spite of their assurances that it's all business as usual. This is because of the unprecedented post seasoning requirements, meaning that no extension is really in the bag until 12 months after the event when applying for the next one. At this point the agent will have to confirm that both the pre-seasoning for the upcoming extension is taken care of, and the post-seasoning rules for the previous year's extension have been met retrospectively. Never before in the history of immigration has getting an extension involved proving that you complied by the rules pertaining to the previous year - this places the agent in a very powerful position, as the applicant has no choice but to keep using them. If any kind of overhaul or crackdown happens, or certain agents lose their connections, the person with the extension will be the one affected. I'll be curious to see what happens with extensions at the second renewal under this new system, and if prices are hiked to take into account the extra work involved. The whole thing smacks of one of those mafia deals you're lured into and can never walk away from. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by lamyai3

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, BrianBkyn said:

He has to go to Pattaya now every 90 days because that is where he got his extension done -

Did he get a re-entry permit? Just thinking a border hop or short international trip every 90 days to get rid of the 90 day reporting requirement would be a solution.

(Although would he need to do a TM30...? ????)

Edited July 20, 2019 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

This is because of the unprecedented post seasoning requirements, meaning that no extension is really in the bag until 12 months after the event when applying for the next one.

I like the way you put that. Although I still do not fully accept that the reason the post seasoning requirement came about, was to take agents out of the picture. More likely to push customers their way. 

[Tanoshi]

Agents are competing for business, hence the various prices, 14,000, 18,000, 24,000.

Corrupt IO officials are also competing across the offices for a cut of the takings.

 

I know of one Bangkok agent who obtain their extensions through Roi Et.

They charge 14,000. Why, because the IO's at CW probably want a bigger slice of the cake, so the agent uses the cheapest service charge they can find at a different IO.

 

This now causes issues for the applicant because they live in a different Province than where the extension was issued. The agents rarely care. You paid them to obtain an extension and that's what they did.

 

The question everyone using an agent should be asking is 'which office' will they use.

However I suspect many applicants want to pay the lowest price possible.

[Pilotman]

9 hours ago, griffon2011 said:

This situation sort of explains the problems I had at CW yesterday.  On July 2 I gave my passport to a BKK agent to do my 90 day report due on July 8th.  I asked her to check on the TM30 and let me know if there was a problem with that. I contacted her on the 9th to check the status and it was promised on Friday 12th. On Friday no call and office locked. I finally got my passport back late on Monday the 15th but with no receipt.  Thinking she did not file it and I was late I went to CW and explained to the IO that I didn't think the agent filed the 90 day.  She checked and said she did file but at another office and that was not good and I was going to have a problem at the next 90 day.  I asked what kind of problem and she just stared through me and did not reply.  I asked how to fix it and got the same blank look and no reply.  My landlord who was there to address any TM30 issues asked her to print out a new copy of the 90 day receipt from her computer and she said "No, go see your agent."  I asked to file a new 90 day and again got no reply and a this "conversation" is over stare so I just walked out wondering <deleted> that was all about.  Today I went to the agent and she said my passport got mixed up with a batch going to another office.  I don't know what to believe and not sure where to go from here.  Any suggestions? 

why use an agent. It's an easy process to do yourself, (at least in Jomtein where I file my papers),  and avoid all the confusion. 

[IraqRon]

so now the other shoe drops, those using an agent and registered in address other than their actual one may face problem at some point. i guess the agent could could get online access to the tm 30 online system as could the falang (many say they have done this).  allowing this points out the flaw in the online registration policy.

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Did he get a re-entry permit? Just thinking a border hop or short international trip every 90 days to get rid of the 90 day reporting requirement would be a solution.

(Although would he need to do a TM30...? ????)

Can't see where the TM 30 after a day or two out would apply. No hotel outside Thailand is going to report you staying there. The TM6 coming in would have the same address as your extension so I can't see where anything changes. You haven't stayed anywhere that has any obligation to report to Thai Imm'

[jackdd]

6 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Can't see where the TM 30 after a day or two out would apply. No hotel outside Thailand is going to report you staying there. The TM6 coming in would have the same address as your extension so I can't see where anything changes. You haven't stayed anywhere that has any obligation to report to Thai Imm'

You put the arrival card number on the TM30 form, this changes if you leave Thailand and come back.

Offices (for example Chiang Mai) which don't insist on doing a new TM30 every time you have been to another province, still insist on a new TM30 * if you have been out of the country.

 

* Actually "have it updated", to be more precise. In CM you don't need to submit a new TM30, but give them your passport and old receipt to update it.

Edited July 20, 2019 by jackdd

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You put the arrival card number on the TM30 form, this changes if you leave Thailand and come back.

Offices (for example Chiang Mai) which don't insist on doing a new TM30 every time you have been to another province, still insist on a new TM30 if you have been out of the country.

So it's really another one of those 'depends on your local office' answers.

Just trying to walk it through.

Re-entry permit, go to somewhere for a day or so, come back, stay in a hotel one night, they do a TM30. Go to where you 'want' to report ( 90 days ) do a new TM30, report change of address and go from there

??????

Edited July 20, 2019 by overherebc

[jacko45k]

30 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Can't see where the TM 30 after a day or two out would apply.

I think you do not understand the TM30 fully. Forget the address you put on the TM6. You are officially required to report where you are staying in Thailand, or more accurately the owner/ housemaster/ possessor has to report a foreigner in residence within 24 hours of arrival. 

This is being applied in varying degrees around the country. Most certainly a trip outside the country would flag this. The factor wrt this thread, is if the guy had need to attend immigration, where the absence of a TM30 would be flagged. If no 90 day report, no need, until next Extension application.

A person dealing with Jomtiem/ Chonburi, on retirement extension, living in own property, is fortunately not required to submit a TM 30 on each return. Other IOs are most certainly asking for them.

Edited July 20, 2019 by jacko45k

[overherebc]

8 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I think you do not understand the TM30 fully. Forget the address you put on the TM6. You are officially required to report where you are staying in Thailand, or more accurately the owner/ housemaster/ possessor has to report a foreigner in residence within 24 hours of arrival. 

This is being applied in varying degrees around the country. Most certainly a trip outside the country would flag this. The factor wrt the thread, is if the guy needed to attend immigration where the absence of a TM30 would be flagged. If no 90 day report, unlikely until next Extension application.

My local office , so far, only requires a new TM30 for a complete/permanent change of address within their area.

Edited July 20, 2019 by overherebc

[jacko45k]

Just now, overherebc said:

My local office , so far, only requires a new TM30 for a complete change of address within their area.

Excuse me I was still trying to make my post above clear, not easy. Your office , like Jomtiem, is applying it more leniently. (Should we say sensibly). Others are quite pedantic, and a fine is gleefully exacted.

[norbra]

CW does not require a TM 30 receipt for a 90 day report,on my last visit there I offered the receipt and was advised "for extension only"

[orchidfan]

At my local IO in 5yrs of 90day reporting and marriage extensions have NEVER filled in.a TM30(wouldn't know what one looks like ).

90 day report takes 5mins....hand over TM (whatever it is) passport, stamped TM6 departure butt and that's it. See you again by this date...

Many trips around Thailand and travel overseas several times a year.

Tm30?? Never seen one let alone submit one.

Always some home (owned) address.

[rott]

12 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

This is because of the unprecedented post seasoning requirements, meaning that no extension is really in the bag until 12 months after the event when applying for the next one. At this point the agent will have to confirm that both the pre-seasoning for the upcoming extension is taken care of, and the post-seasoning rules for the previous year's extension have been met retrospectively. 

And your information for this comes from where exactly?

I suspect it comes from your own imagination. You are being very specific about things that have yet to happen and are very unlikely to happen. And you contradict yourself, if your extension this year is in the bag it cannot be "unbagged", the scenario you visualise for next year cannot affect it.

[rott]

19 hours ago, BrianBkyn said:

I know. Exactly. But that is what happened. His address was the hotel he stayed in for one night. He has to go to Pattaya now every 90 days because that is where he got his extension done - though he had a Bangkok address. It is crazy. He will get the TM30 from the hotel every time. My guess based on nothing is that Pattaya knows exactly what is going on but also knows how he got his extension and so passed him through. Don't rock the boat. This may catch up with him at some point if these discrepancies are noticed by someone.

You mean he did not realise that going through Jomtien meant he had to do his 90 day there.

"My guess is that Pattaya knows how he got his extension", well seeing as they issued it that would be my guess as well. Not a difficult one.

 

I suspect that you and your friends do not mix with many people on retirement extensions.

[lamyai3]

50 minutes ago, rott said:

And your information for this comes from where exactly?

I suspect it comes from your own imagination. You are being very specific about things that have yet to happen and are very unlikely to happen. And you contradict yourself, if your extension this year is in the bag it cannot be "unbagged", the scenario you visualise for next year cannot affect it.

I thought my post was quite clear, but evidently not. It can hardly be considered to be "in the bag" when a portion of the requirements take place after the extension is granted, and failure to meet those post-extension requirements disqualify you next year. Extensions have always worked a bit like visas - you meet a checklist, apply, and once you've been given it you're good to go - what happens next time is completely discontinuous. This is no longer the case. 

 

Post-seasoning requirements refers to 800k needing to be held in the bank three months after the date of extension, and a minimum balance of 400k to remain for the full rest of the year. This has been explained ad nauseam in hundreds of pages of threads since the beginning of the year. It's an entirely new setup regarding immigration - the conditions of getting an extension have never before depended on post-seasoning rules relating to the previous year. This now tasks the agent with two separate jobs - to fix the pre-seasoning of 800k in relation to the current year, and to confirm the deposit requirements were met in relation to the previous year. No one has any idea how this is going to play out, but one thing is clear, once you've used an agent for this, you can't switch back to doing it yourself, as you won't have had the post-seasoning monies in the bank. Only alternative at that point is to start from scratch with a new visa. 

 

The report in the OP shows how easily things can go wrong, with TM30s of all things. It's completely plausible that in an era of shake-ups and crackdowns there'll be more agents thrown to the wolves if their connections aren't good enough... anyone using an agent at the current time to falsify their deposit is certainly taking a leap of faith. 

[BrianBkyn]

21 hours ago, BertM said:

If your friend met all the requirements, he could have gotten the extension in BK. Either, he didn't meet the requirements or the agent just didn't want to deal with CW. In either case, he now has an extension, so he can keep going to Jomtien for his 90-day reports or he can (should) change his address to BK (like I did last year). I moved to Bangkok in Jan 2017, but did my extension in Jomtien in Sep 2017 even though I was living in BK. I put my BK address on the forms, but they either didn't care or didn't look at it. I changed my address at CW in Bangkok in Sep 2018 when I did my last extension, so now I file in BK. So, if your friend meets all the requirements next year, he can change his address and do his extension in BK. If he doesn't meet the requirements, then he's at the mercy of the agents I guess... That's the best I can figure...

Yes that is his plan - he just learned too late about the new financial requirements and will have the 800k in a Thai bank within a few months. Thx for the feedback.