Where to buy cows?

[CLW]

 
I am not sure I understand what you say... do you mean that rice straw and Nappier grass are not good for cows?   

I think he wants to say it is not sufficient for the animal to gain some weight or become pregnant. Also it might not deliver enough energy (ME, metabolise energy) to the animal. Probably some protein source etc.

Compare it to human that eats only mama noodles, boiled egg and canned fish. You surely not starve but your health will degenerate over time.

[kickstart]

10 hours ago, CLW said:

 

 

I think he wants to say it is not sufficient for the animal to gain some weight or become pregnant. Also it might not deliver enough energy (ME, metabolise energy) to the animal. Probably some protein source etc.

Compare it to human that eats only mama noodles, boiled egg and canned fish. You surely not starve but your health will degenerate over time.

 

What CLW said is correct ,when working out a ration for cattle the energy of the ration ,the ME is almost more important than the protein ,you can feed ,say 16% concentrate ,that would would be OK ,but if you only feed rice straw ,or as I said Nappier grass that is old and all stalk as a forage the whole ration will be shot of energy ,a big problem with dairy cows ,they get fed  lot of concentrate ,with rice straw as the only available forage ,cows and especially 1st calving heifers they will only get fat ,and not fertile and the profit margin will be low ,same with beef cattle ,but more so with prices dropping ,you can not afford to feed a lot of expensive concentrate .,an old saying ''cattle need to be fit not fat to do any thing''.

As I said with good quality forage you are more than half there. 

Ok if you are a hobby farm and not bothered about costs ,but we are ,and we do make a profit ,not a lot, but  with the drought this year we will probably do better than a lot of a rice /arable farms .

With prices dropping it may be cheaper to buy them ,(but breeds like Brangus Charalias X Brahman will still hold they prices ,as they are still sort after breeds ).

But the selling  price will be lower ,the guy with the thread ''12 cattle and no experience'' ,he at the last report last year was selling  fat Charalies x Brahman  bulls for 60 000 baht/head plus a very good price ,this year a bit/lot less, with his high input cost he did not make a lot .

About the only sure way to make money out of cattle in Thailand is to go down the breeding road especially with red Brahmans .a good quality red Brahman heifer in calf  or bull can be sold for 50 000 baht and that will be for a 2 year old animal .

Back to AI, if the animal is a bit on the thin said conception rate will be higher with a bull than with  AI .    

[473geo]

My wife sprinkles molasses on the rice straw periodically, talking about spending more and not worried too much about profit on a hobby farm, but there is still the need to have cows producing calves, so a delicate balance, not over feeding with bought in dry feed, using home feed.

Today we drilled a bore to supply water all year round to our grass plot, always something to spend a little money on, but a good investment.

We now have electric and water at the cow shed, so if we wanted to knock up a home for the kids, nearby just wifi reqd! ????

[khwaibah]

This project is up to 4 chaff cutters. Napier grass and sweet israel grass. Very little rice straw is used. Wife had about 500 bales last December and she still has over 400. All grasses are chopped up and she adds a supplement. Her project heifers and her personal heifers look serious healthy and Horney. Her personal lot has grown with the addition of her Black Angus bull This bull is NOT going to market. His work is cut out..

 

[khwaibah]

PS ^ ???? Add to the above molasses. Usually brought in locally in 20 lt. containers. The wife has a shyt pot of the selected grasses growing not only for her but the project in a 10km radius of this project. She is not a big fan of rice straw as she knows it value. Majority of her straw will be used in compost. My wife dropped out of school after the 9 years. This has never stop her from learning. Over time her friends were made through local social programs, Department of Wildlife, Department of Agriculture and Department of Livestock. She has attended many of seminars on what were posting about, some of those I was invited too. If your wife has a keen interest on what where posting on then her project small or large will succeed. If you can get her moving in that direction you stand a very good chance of success. We can only give emotional support and $$$. I prize my life and I will not tell her what to do on her project.????She has some serious confidants for that. With the lack of rain and the area in a draught rice this year is not going to happen. I'm sure come December she will collect what bales are about but it will be small numbers. At the moment her heard is being keep over at the main barn and ground area where they can be taken care of. She has at least 12 rai of paddy that is hanging on. Next to this rice she has a new project and the heart of it is a 50x50x10m pond. Water table for our area is only 3m down. This new pond is half full by the ground water not rain. She informed me that in a couple of days she will start pumping that water into her rice. We have had no rain sense June 12. After rice some of that area will grow corn and some the heard can have. OK I will stop.????

[Michael Hare]

I don't understand why farmers have to grow grass that then has to be chopped up before the cows can digest it. Grow succulent, leafy species that the cows can digest without chopping. Saves labour, time and electricity.

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, khwaibah said:

PS ^ ???? Add to the above molasses. Usually brought in locally in 20 lt. containers. The wife has a shyt pot of the selected grasses growing not only for her but the project in a 10km radius of this project. She is not a big fan of rice straw as she knows it value. Majority of her straw will be used in compost. My wife dropped out of school after the 9 years. This has never stop her from learning. Over time her friends were made through local social programs, Department of Wildlife, Department of Agriculture and Department of Livestock. She has attended many of seminars on what were posting about, some of those I was invited too. If your wife has a keen interest on what where posting on then her project small or large will succeed. If you can get her moving in that direction you stand a very good chance of success. We can only give emotional support and $$$. I prize my life and I will not tell her what to do on her project.????She has some serious confidants for that. With the lack of rain and the area in a draught rice this year is not going to happen. I'm sure come December she will collect what bales are about but it will be small numbers. At the moment her heard is being keep over at the main barn and ground area where they can be taken care of. She has at least 12 rai of paddy that is hanging on. Next to this rice she has a new project and the heart of it is a 50x50x10m pond. Water table for our area is only 3m down. This new pond is half full by the ground water not rain. She informed me that in a couple of days she will start pumping that water into her rice. We have had no rain sense June 12. After rice some of that area will grow corn and some the heard can have. OK I will stop.????

Very similar here. 

 

We already have the pond and we also have the drought... it rained many hours last night, but that was London or Paris kind of rain, not a good tropical shower... 

 

I am growing Guinea grass and will soon add Napier grass. 

 

As for the cows (heifers) I will come back to you guys when the time of buying will come. 

 

I like the Brahmans but they are big animals who require lots of food, and I am not sure that there are so many buyers at these high prices in my area (Sisaket). 

 

Brahmans have all but disappeared from the fields around here... there used to be some, years ago... 

 

[Brunolem]

8 hours ago, kickstart said:

What CLW said is correct ,when working out a ration for cattle the energy of the ration ,the ME is almost more important than the protein ,you can feed ,say 16% concentrate ,that would would be OK ,but if you only feed rice straw ,or as I said Nappier grass that is old and all stalk as a forage the whole ration will be shot of energy ,a big problem with dairy cows ,they get fed  lot of concentrate ,with rice straw as the only available forage ,cows and especially 1st calving heifers they will only get fat ,and not fertile and the profit margin will be low ,same with beef cattle ,but more so with prices dropping ,you can not afford to feed a lot of expensive concentrate .,an old saying ''cattle need to be fit not fat to do any thing''.

As I said with good quality forage you are more than half there. 

Ok if you are a hobby farm and not bothered about costs ,but we are ,and we do make a profit ,not a lot, but  with the drought this year we will probably do better than a lot of a rice /arable farms .

With prices dropping it may be cheaper to buy them ,(but breeds like Brangus Charalias X Brahman will still hold they prices ,as they are still sort after breeds ).

But the selling  price will be lower ,the guy with the thread ''12 cattle and no experience'' ,he at the last report last year was selling  fat Charalies x Brahman  bulls for 60 000 baht/head plus a very good price ,this year a bit/lot less, with his high input cost he did not make a lot .

About the only sure way to make money out of cattle in Thailand is to go down the breeding road especially with red Brahmans .a good quality red Brahman heifer in calf  or bull can be sold for 50 000 baht and that will be for a 2 year old animal .

Back to AI, if the animal is a bit on the thin said conception rate will be higher with a bull than with  AI .    

Do you have a picture of a Charolais x Brahman? 

 

The problem around here is that farmers are totally unaware of the kind (names) of cows they have. 

 

If I say, do you have a Brahman or an Angus, they just stare at me... I need to show them pictures to be understood... 

 

[kickstart]

23 hours ago, 473geo said:

My wife sprinkles molasses on the rice straw periodically, talking about spending more and not worried too much about profit on a hobby farm, but there is still the need to have cows producing calves, so a delicate balance, not over feeding with bought in dry feed, using home feed.

Today we drilled a bore to supply water all year round to our grass plot, always something to spend a little money on, but a good investment.

We now have electric and water at the cow shed, so if we wanted to knock up a home for the kids, nearby just wifi reqd! ????

And I bet she mixes water with the molasses ,molasses is only 4% protein  at 7-8 baht /kg an expensive feed with a dry matter of 70% ,or 70% feed 30% water ,if she mixes water as well ,a lot of Thais do you are basically feeding sweet coloured water ,for what it is it is expensive  before gasahole arrived it was only 2.50 baht /kg .

It does make the rice straw more palatable  of ,but  it dose not increase  the protein ,to increase the protein vale of rice straw you can make a form of fermented rice straw ,using rice straw ,urea and water ,mix it all together cover it with a plastic sheet for 21 days then fed it too cattle ,it increases the protein  of rice straw from about 4% to about 6-7%,they are recipes on the internet. 

[kickstart]

15 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

I don't understand why farmers have to grow grass that then has to be chopped up before the cows can digest it. Grow succulent, leafy species that the cows can digest without chopping. Saves labour, time and electricity.

I could not agree with you more ,and 9 times out of 10 it is way past it best  feed value.

But if you only have a limited land  ,like us it is about the only way to grow enough grass to give cattle some regular feed of grass .

We have some Nappier silage enough for 6 large animals 1 1/2 rie of 60 day  Nappier can give us 120 bags enough for 3 months ,also with feeding Gratin the tree legume .

Very much as I would like to grow Moulto II ,we just do not have the land ,and with the drought at this time ,and no irrigation we have no choice. 

[473geo]

13 minutes ago, kickstart said:

And I bet she mixes water with the molasses ,molasses is only 4% protein  at 7-8 baht /kg an expensive feed with a dry matter of 70% ,or 70% feed 30% water ,if she mixes water as well ,a lot of Thais do you are basically feeding sweet coloured water ,for what it is it is expensive  before gasahole arrived it was only 2.50 baht /kg .

It does make the rice straw more palatable  of ,but  it dose not increase  the protein ,to increase the protein vale of rice straw you can make a form of fermented rice straw ,using rice straw ,urea and water ,mix it all together cover it with a plastic sheet for 21 days then fed it too cattle ,it increases the protein  of rice straw from about 4% to about 6-7%,they are recipes on the internet. 

Not 100% sure but I don't think the molasses is diluted. Her cattle have a varied diet and routine, some days out grazing round and about, hand feed and rice straw to top up in the evening. Sometimes not out at all cut fresh grass brought in topped up in the evening with hand feed and rice straw, occasionally just rice straw and in all day hand feed either end of the day but this is rare. Always a good supply on mineral licks also. I don't think we over do things regarding cost, expect to let calves gain steadily in size before pushing to gain additional weight. the cows I notice milk hard and really don't pick up much condition before weaning. The bore should help increase the supply of good grass so not worried about detailed protein management. I don't like napier and am very pleased with grass my wife grows, no chopping at all.

If water is available and plentiful a little kale perhaps.

 

[kickstart]

15 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Do you have a picture of a Charolais x Brahman? 

 

The problem around here is that farmers are totally unaware of the kind (names) of cows they have. 

 

If I say, do you have a Brahman or an Angus, they just stare at me... I need to show them pictures to be understood... 

 

If you type Brangus cattle in to Google they should have some .

For Charolais X Brahman cattle have a look at TV's ''12 cattle  and no experience thread'' ,his cattle are Charolais X Brahman. 

[kickstart]

3 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Not 100% sure but I don't think the molasses is diluted. Her cattle have a varied diet and routine, some days out grazing round and about, hand feed and rice straw to top up in the evening. Sometimes not out at all cut fresh grass brought in topped up in the evening with hand feed and rice straw, occasionally just rice straw and in all day hand feed either end of the day but this is rare. Always a good supply on mineral licks also. I don't think we over do things regarding cost, expect to let calves gain steadily in size before pushing to gain additional weight. the cows I notice milk hard and really don't pick up much condition before weaning. The bore should help increase the supply of good grass so not worried about detailed protein management. I don't like napier and am very pleased with grass my wife grows, no chopping at all.

If water is available and plentiful a little kale perhaps.

 

A big problem with all cattle ,when they calve they will lose weight ,dairy as well as beef cattle ,the problem is short of enagey in the diet ,a big Thai problem ,the old  saying is they '' milk off they back '' using body reserves to produce milk ,dairy cattle have the biggest problem ,again we are back to the quality of the forage ,especially rice straw.

Look at web sights about ''cattle body score  conditioning''  it will give you some idea on how fit a cow should be before/at  calving ,and when she should be severed .

You should feed some powered minerals as well the mineral blocks,they  are really salt blocks ,98-99 % salt 1% mineral ,they do not provide enough minerals on they own ,with Thai soils being so short of minerals  cattle need some mineral supplements,if you see cattle licking soil /stones they are looking for minerals. 

[kickstart]

On 7/24/2019 at 12:43 AM, khwaibah said:

This project is up to 4 chaff cutters. Napier grass and sweet israel grass. Very little rice straw is used. Wife had about 500 bales last December and she still has over 400. All grasses are chopped up and she adds a supplement. Her project heifers and her personal heifers look serious healthy and Horney. Her personal lot has grown with the addition of her Black Angus bull This bull is NOT going to market. His work is cut out..

 

•  

I was surprised you are feeding an 16% concentrate and this one is a dairy concentrate ?@9-10 baht/kg ,with fresh grass (but some of than Nappier looks a bit old),you could feed a cheaper 14% concentrate ,that would do your your freshly calved cows along with the fresh Nappier.

For say cows/heifers not in calf or some growing heifers or  anything  only say 3-6 months in calf you could use a 12% concentrate with the grass ,it would do to keep them ticking over  OK.