Vientiane Tourist Visa Update: Many People Denied

[Kenny202]

So what happens in these cases where you have belongings or stuff sitting in an apartment somewhere? Do you just lose it all?

[Matzzon]

Not surprising at all. 5 back to back and 3 back to back tourist visas, explains it all. What I am amazed over is that your friend got his application approved.

[AlQaholic]

10 hours ago, JAG said:

No, living as in residing here for an extended period, irrespective of social security and health insurance - something to which many if not most Thais have no access.

Every Thai citizen who is working has social security and health insurance by law. part of the salary goes to this. The employee and the employer pay equal part to that. For those that do not have an employer, are eligible for the 30 Bath scheme.

10 hours ago, JAG said:

 

 

[Stanton123]

Would getting a new passport still work to wipe the slate clean at the vientiane embassy? 

Or with the new online booking system for appointments, if someone is denied would their name be flagged and therefor the new and old passports connected? I doubt it, considering they get a couple hundred applicants per day. I think the new passport method would still work. 

[remorhaz]

I've come to realize that despite the jawboning about tourist numbers being low they really don't want us anymore - maybe they never did who knows.  I have visited Thailand once a year for between 10-14 days for the last 4 years.  I do not have one of the "good passports" rather mine is from Panama so I get to fill out the full on tourist visa application each and every time.  4 years? 5 years ago? All I did was provide 2 photos, flight information, place of stay and I was done.  Then they started demanding to see the entire 3 previous years of bank account activity from my primary bank (this is a 2 inch thick booklet each and every time).  Now they are demanding that in addition to this, I need a stamped certified letter from my primary employer (thank GOD I am not running my own business as I was 4 years ago) and certified flight documents issued from the airline company plus a fax from my intended place of stay showing my payment and booking arrangements.  I also require a 'guarantor' from my own country (I'm 50 years old and own two houses, unmarried, no children, and I need a guarantor?).  And I also must find a Thai citizen in Thailand who will vouch for me and provide a letter saying so in Thai - I have a friend willing to do this fortunately.  Now I could do all of this and GOD knows what else next year or I could go to Ho Chi Minh city and get an e-visa in about 20 minutes with very little hassle and 1/10th the cost.  Spending 20 days getting all this done for a 10 day break is too much.  I know they need to be careful and I know that Panama is chock full of ISIS terrorists and "bad" brown people and even though I'm white the taint of being from a country they can't find on a map must just be too much.  Cue the cavalcade of white knights rushing to ma ladies defense and saying if you don't like don't come and that's a good idea actually.  

 

Realize that I am supposed to be one of the tourists they like.  They have proof that all I do is come for 10 days once a year to spend money then promptly leave.  I have enough in the bank to retire right now if I wanted too and sock away 800,000+ baht forever - it wouldn't be a strain.  I have never over stayed my visa and never been denied a visa nor have I ever had any dealing with law enforcement but they just don't want us there.  Its sad because I really do like Thailand and visiting there is always a great experience but times they are changing.

[wolf81]

12 minutes ago, remorhaz said:

...

 

Realize that I am supposed to be one of the tourists they like.  They have proof that all I do is come for 10 days once a year to spend money then promptly leave.  I have enough in the bank to retire right now if I wanted too and sock away 800,000+ baht forever - it wouldn't be a strain.  I have never over stayed my visa and never been denied a visa nor have I ever had any dealing with law enforcement but they just don't want us there.  Its sad because I really do like Thailand and visiting there is always a great experience but times they are changing.

 

If you have enough money and you like Thailand, I'd say just buy the Elite visa. No more hassles. 

[fforest1]

11 hours ago, JAG said:

There is ample provision for visas if you wish to live here, according to the rules laid down by the country. 

 

Unless you under 50 years old then Thailand has ZERO long stay visas for you unless....
 

You want to bend over and shell out 500,000 baht...

 

You marry a Thai which will be costing you a lot more than 500,00 baht...lol

 

Get a job if you can even find one....

 

So you have 3 bad choices if your under 50 ......METV visas ED visas TV visas you can only get a few years out of....

Edited July 22, 2019 by fforest1

[GeorgeCross]

7 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

 

You marry a Thai which will be costing you a lot more than 500,00 baht...lol

 

 

not if you choose one carefully.

 

don't take in the "strays" at home or here! ????

 

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[Benmart]

14 hours ago, JAG said:

No, living as in residing here for an extended period, irrespective of social security and health insurance - something to which many if not most Thais have no access.

 

Look, Thailand's visa rules allow for tourists to enter for sixty days, which can be extended by another thirty days. Three months as a tourist. If you want to live here you need to fulfil certain criteria (less onerous than for many countries!). If you have a properly constituted job then an appropriate visa (non immigrant B) can be obtained. If you are married to a Thai then you can get a non immigrant type O. These are also available to retired people over 50 with sufficient funds. If you're under 50, but fortunate enough to be "a person of leisure" then the "elite" visa is available. But the authorities have made it quite clear, and are now enforcing the rules to ensure, that living in Thailand on back to back tourist visas is not accepted.

 

The queues at Savannahket may well get longer, but I suspect that they will also turn away people seeking consequetive tourist visas. It is, quite simply no longer an option. There is ample provision for visas if you wish to live here, according to the rules laid down by the country. 

 

So true. Obey the laws and live in relative peace.

[Date Masamune]

The previous post and quote are valid but there is no definition of “living in Thailand” and people doing back to back tourists visas ARE following the law(or they are only breaking some unwritten rule).

 

Many countries set a 6 month per year limit for tourism. Thailand should do also. Max 182 days in a row, then banned for 6 months. Then also let people allowed visa exempts to go back to using them as they are intended.

 

 

[reefsurfah]

3 hours ago, remorhaz said:

I've come to realize that despite the jawboning about tourist numbers being low they really don't want us anymore - maybe they never did who knows.  I have visited Thailand once a year for between 10-14 days for the last 4 years.  I do not have one of the "good passports" rather mine is from Panama so I get to fill out the full on tourist visa application each and every time.  4 years? 5 years ago? All I did was provide 2 photos, flight information, place of stay and I was done.  Then they started demanding to see the entire 3 previous years of bank account activity from my primary bank (this is a 2 inch thick booklet each and every time).  Now they are demanding that in addition to this, I need a stamped certified letter from my primary employer (thank GOD I am not running my own business as I was 4 years ago) and certified flight documents issued from the airline company plus a fax from my intended place of stay showing my payment and booking arrangements.  I also require a 'guarantor' from my own country (I'm 50 years old and own two houses, unmarried, no children, and I need a guarantor?).  And I also must find a Thai citizen in Thailand who will vouch for me and provide a letter saying so in Thai - I have a friend willing to do this fortunately.  Now I could do all of this and GOD knows what else next year or I could go to Ho Chi Minh city and get an e-visa in about 20 minutes with very little hassle and 1/10th the cost.  Spending 20 days getting all this done for a 10 day break is too much.  I know they need to be careful and I know that Panama is chock full of ISIS terrorists and "bad" brown people and even though I'm white the taint of being from a country they can't find on a map must just be too much.  Cue the cavalcade of white knights rushing to ma ladies defense and saying if you don't like don't come and that's a good idea actually.  

 

Realize that I am supposed to be one of the tourists they like.  They have proof that all I do is come for 10 days once a year to spend money then promptly leave.  I have enough in the bank to retire right now if I wanted too and sock away 800,000+ baht forever - it wouldn't be a strain.  I have never over stayed my visa and never been denied a visa nor have I ever had any dealing with law enforcement but they just don't want us there.  Its sad because I really do like Thailand and visiting there is always a great experience but times they are changing.

Its up to you to decide if its worth it, there will always be hurdles for any country.   Unfortunately, the ones who abused the system are making it tougher for everyone else.  Like everything else in life, all good things come to an end.  Maybe its better you try HCM to see if that changes you.  If it doesn't, Thailand will still be here.

[Too young to be old]

14 hours ago, Mikisteel said:

Forgive me but why else do you need to visit Vientiane if not for reentry to Thailand. Am I being ignorant, do people actually visit Vientiane for other purposes?

 

Does this not put a major dent in the hotel economy in Vientiane?

 

Maybe I'm just not aware I just did mot see many people doing anything but get Visa's whilst there twice, previously.

I went there to hire a car to drive to Luang Prabang (a few years back) Quite an interesting city too.

[pookondee]

14 hours ago, matt9998 said:

No reason was given other than "my boss reject you sorry ka".  Yes I was able to get back in after greasing a couple palms so to speak. I was definitely sweating.

so just out of interest, if you care to tell..

what was the "greasing" ball-park figure?

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Benmart said:

So true. Obey the laws and live in relative peace.

Which "laws" are you referring to? Those that have been published, and are official parts of the legal code of Thailand, or ones made up on the spot by any official who decides he does not like your face? If the latter, "obeying" the official's laws can be pretty difficult when you have no idea what they will be.

[KhaoYai]

14 hours ago, matt9998 said:

The 200k was likely a number she pulled out a hat just to scare them away and keep the line moving.

You don't say what type of tourist visa they were seeking but 200k is the required amount (per person) at other embassies/consulates for a METV.

 

I can't see any reference to the amount of cash required on the Vientiane website but in typical Thai fashion, the 'English' pages are actually 90% Thai.

 

http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/en/consular/visa.php

Edited July 22, 2019 by KhaoYai

[matt9998]

8 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

You don't say what type of tourist visa they were seeking but 200k is the required amount (per person) at other embassies/consulates for a METV.

 

I can't see any reference to the amount of cash required on the Vientiane website but in typical Thai fashion, the 'English' pages are actually 90% Thai.

 

http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/en/consular/visa.php

I didn't know you could get a METV outside of your home country anymore. I would speculate it was a SETV but no way to know for certain. 100k baht in the bank per person worked for my friend but that is just a sample size of 1.

[matt9998]

17 minutes ago, pookondee said:

so just out of interest, if you care to tell..

what was the "greasing" ball-park figure?

500 baht. Not very much.

[matt9998]

Someone asked if the embassy required a Thai bank account statement or if a bank from their home country would work. They didn't specify where the bank account would be from but my friend provided his Thai bank account. By providing a Thai bank account though you are sort of saying "yea, I live here". It might be better to provide one from your home country and write the conversion to THB on the print out.

[remorhaz]

1 hour ago, reefsurfah said:

Its up to you to decide if its worth it, there will always be hurdles for any country.   Unfortunately, the ones who abused the system are making it tougher for everyone else.  Like everything else in life, all good things come to an end.  Maybe its better you try HCM to see if that changes you.  If it doesn't, Thailand will still be here.

Your statements are correct of course there will be hurdles and I realize that Panama isn't Norway? (I think they are the number one visa free country now it changes a lot).  Still it would be nice and  if they took my past into account.  "Right.  Guy shows up for 10 days, drops a wad of money on tourist stuff and tours then leaves.  Repeat.  Never over stays.  Always stays at really nice hotels.  Not Bill Gates but spends a decent amount of money. No problems with the law."    

 

I know that its unrealistic and the guys at the consulate are simply looking at a checklist but they really do paint with a wide brush.  I am unaware of legions of my fellow Panamanians over-running the country and overstaying their visas but maybe I am just ill informed.  I will try HCM I've heard good things about it and if you or anyone bumps into a Panamanian at a bar in HCM who is frustrated with Thai visa procedures mention this thread and your first beer is on me.

[pookondee]

2 minutes ago, matt9998 said:

500 baht. Not very much.

Bargain that.

Thanks. Could be handy to know in the furure.

Sorry to be nosy, but was it an agent/tout or an IMMs officer?

[brewsterbudgen]

Unless you under 50 years old then Thailand has ZERO long stay visas for you unless....
 
You want to bend over and shell out 500,000 baht...
 
You marry a Thai which will be costing you a lot more than 500,00 baht...lol
 
Get a job if you can even find one....
 
So you have 3 bad choices if your under 50 ......METV visas ED visas TV visas you can only get a few years out of....

Do you find this surprising? Do many countries offer lengthy or unlimited visas to people with no reason to be spending their whole time in the country? Thailand's visa system is more generous and flexible than most.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[matt9998]

5 minutes ago, pookondee said:

Bargain that.

Thanks. Could be handy to know in the furure.

Sorry to be nosy, but was it an agent/tout or an IMMs officer?

I don't want to provide many more details in the public forum sorry.

[pookondee]

Just now, matt9998 said:

I don't want to provide many more details in the public forum sorry.

fair enuff!

[BritTim]

16 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

To get visas to developed countries you need to convince the officer you have strong reasons to not stay and you will return home. They often ask leading questions like, "if you can find a school will you stay, or someone to get married to, etc" If you answer wrong you don't get in. Why should Thailand be different? You are not Thai and not entitled to be here?  

Getting into Australia, UK, US and UK is pretty much the same. Many stories her about it.

Your question is "why is Thai law different from that of most other countries?" I have views on that, but the reasons the Thai Immigration Act looks different from that of virtually all first world countries does not really matter. The Thai laws are different. Stating that Australian, British or American law ought to apply in Thailand has never made much sense to me. If the Thais want their laws to be in line with those of the developed countries you cite, they should change their laws accordingly. Just allowing officials to arbitrarily invent their own laws on the spot is not the solution.

[Farangwithaplan]

5 hours ago, remorhaz said:

I've come to realize that despite the jawboning about tourist numbers being low they really don't want us anymore - maybe they never did who knows.  I have visited Thailand once a year for between 10-14 days for the last 4 years.  I do not have one of the "good passports" rather mine is from Panama so I get to fill out the full on tourist visa application each and every time.  4 years? 5 years ago? All I did was provide 2 photos, flight information, place of stay and I was done.  Then they started demanding to see the entire 3 previous years of bank account activity from my primary bank (this is a 2 inch thick booklet each and every time).  Now they are demanding that in addition to this, I need a stamped certified letter from my primary employer (thank GOD I am not running my own business as I was 4 years ago) and certified flight documents issued from the airline company plus a fax from my intended place of stay showing my payment and booking arrangements.  I also require a 'guarantor' from my own country (I'm 50 years old and own two houses, unmarried, no children, and I need a guarantor?).  And I also must find a Thai citizen in Thailand who will vouch for me and provide a letter saying so in Thai - I have a friend willing to do this fortunately.  Now I could do all of this and GOD knows what else next year or I could go to Ho Chi Minh city and get an e-visa in about 20 minutes with very little hassle and 1/10th the cost.  Spending 20 days getting all this done for a 10 day break is too much.  I know they need to be careful and I know that Panama is chock full of ISIS terrorists and "bad" brown people and even though I'm white the taint of being from a country they can't find on a map must just be too much.  Cue the cavalcade of white knights rushing to ma ladies defense and saying if you don't like don't come and that's a good idea actually.  

 

 

You do realise that you must go through this process because the Panamanian government does not have a strong relationship with the Thai Government. Did you buy your Panamanian passport are are you a Panamanian national? If you are a national, you may do well to lobby your government to work towards a better relationship with Thailand. It won't do much but it is better than typing about it here.

 

The other point is that as a genuine tourist as you state you are, you are being condemned by all these people having back to back exemption and tourist visas. Put yourself in the Immigration team's shoes as you see all these people day after day coming in trying to game the system.

 

In 2004 or 2005 I remember all the people working on exempt stamps who used to do monthly visa runs all feeling hard done by because the rules were being changed to close the loophole. It was something like (and I can't recall exactly) 90 days in the country (three visa runs) required 90 days out of the country before they were allowed to enter again. Personally I can;'t understand how anyone could live like that. But again, because of people trying to find loopholes it made more paperwork for people doing the right thing.

 

Maybe people doing the right thing and getting rejected, or are finding they need to offer more and more documentation should start directing their scorn on the people forcing the Immigration department's hand.

 

 

[Isaanbiker]

14 hours ago, tabarin said:

My previous topic was closed due to some trolls but I made it back without problems, many rejections on my day too though.
And visa fee is always paid on pick-up day.

That was different in Sawannakhed a while ago. I had to pay for my visa on the day when the application was made and there's nobody who got a visa denied.

 

But that seems to be different now. Sorry, not trying to hijack this thread, but does Sawannakhet have a better quota? 

 

 

 

[orbital777]

I am in Vientiane right now applying for a tourist visa. I was at the embassy this morning. I can confirm that they are asking for proof of finances now if you have previous tourist visas from Vientiane.

 

No problem at all I tell them.

 

I have 500k+ sitting in my Bangkok Bank because I have been trying for months now to apply for an Elite visa (a single 2 day overstay in 7+ years is the hangup on that).

 

So I open up the Bangkok Bank app on my phone showing the proof of funds. Not good enough, must print it out. I go print it out, still not good enough. Bangkok Bank app doesn't show your name.

 

Next I go to the physical Bangkok Bank branch here in Vientiane and it is randomly closed on a Monday afternoon for "holiday."

 

I tried asking several times this morning at the embassy if they will accept a statement from a Foreign bank account and was unable to get a clear answer.

 

This is fun...

 

  

 

 

[lkv]

17 minutes ago, orbital777 said:

I go print it out, still not good enough. Bangkok Bank app doesn't show your name.

 

Next I go to the physical Bangkok Bank branch here in Vientiane and it is randomly closed on a Monday afternoon for "holiday."

Find the section in your app regarding Statements, and request a Statement to be sent to you via email. On Kbank it can be done from the app, Bangkok Bank must have a similar option? Or from Ibanking.

 

That would include your name.

 

Bangkok Bank branch in Vientiane would not help you even if they were open, as far as I remember, I read about this some time ago on this forum. They cannot access accounts in another country. Just like HSBC UK cannot get you a statement from HSBC Hong Kong.

Edited July 22, 2019 by lkv

[mpyre]

19 hours ago, SicTransit said:

 

Living as in having access to social security, health insurance and other rights? Good job then getting rid of that potential burden on Thai society! That’ll show them freeloading western immigrants.

Did they also get to keep the visa fee?

 

But they're not "tourists;" get the proper visa.

 

20 hours ago, SicTransit said:

 

Living as in having access to social security, health insurance and other rights? Good job then getting rid of that potential burden on Thai society! That’ll show them freeloading western immigrants.

Did they also get to keep the visa fee?

 

 

[dbrenn]

12 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

The law in Thailand are whatever Somchai with a badge, in this case Immigration police. Quoting the “rules” makes no difference.

Spot on post, written by someone who understands the way Thailand works.

 

Despite all the manifest evidence of people being refused for purely discretionary reasons, they still think that explaining the wording of the immigration law to immigration officers will somehow get them off the hook.