UK minister quits before Johnson becomes PM, decries 'dark cloud' of Brexit

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

And you have misinterpreted the fact that the previous "agreements" that I referred to were generally inclusive, the treaties of the European Union and the GFA.

 

Bottom line is the UK signed up to Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union which carries certain obligations whether people like it or not. Cherry picking was never an option.

Article 50 actually has very few obligations. Which ones do you mean?

[SheungWan]

555 guess you were either of those. All full of BS about economics, investments and currencies. Then get caught with their backsides hanging out over Brexit. Love it!

Brexiteers tough it out for the good of the UK. Remainers just moan and groan all the time. That the banksters, financial Expurts and advisers are exposed as knowing nowt is just another bonus for me.

Guessing wrong. Never mind. Do brave it out, which is just another way of being down and talking it up.

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[SheungWan]

What sections of the agreement do you dislike

They are not quite sure after bendy bananas.

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[Loiner]

Guessing wrong. Never mind. Do brave it out, which is just another way of being down and talking it up.

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No being down about it, in fact nor ebullient than ever. Maybe Remainers should talk it up a little amongst yourselves, then you won’t feel so bad when it happens.
The rest of the country will love it and we’ll all have the feel good factor. I expect you europhiles will still be moaning about the referendum you lost for years after the UK is prospering even more after a full Brexit.

[SheungWan]

No being down about it, in fact nor ebullient than ever. Maybe Remainers should talk it up a little amongst yourselves, then you won’t feel so bad when it happens.
The rest of the country will love it and we’ll all have the feel good factor. I expect you europhiles will still be moaning about the referendum you lost for years after the UK is prospering even more after a full Brexit.

Lose money and talk patriotic twaddle. Perfect combo.

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[sandyf]

20 hours ago, nauseus said:

Article 50 actually has very few obligations. Which ones do you mean?

First ones that come to mind are the Treaty on European Union, Treaty of Lisbon and Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union but I am sure there are some more.

[nauseus]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

First ones that come to mind are the Treaty on European Union, Treaty of Lisbon and Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union but I am sure there are some more.

Article 50 is part of the Lisbon Treaty. What "obligations" are specified within it? 

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, nauseus said:

Article 50 is part of the Lisbon Treaty. What "obligations" are specified within it? 

It is Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, and the UK are "obliged" to respect all treaties they signed up to.

Theresa May had little respect for her obligations and tried to circumvent procedure. She was a strong advocate of collective responsibility but went behind the backs of the negotiators in a failed attempt to deal with leaders direct, not a great deal of respect for the treaties.

Boris Johnson has stated that he will spend the financial settlement on essential services, no respect for any obligation and a move that will remove what little respect any nation has left for the UK.

The man is a total hypocrite. He claims to have a mandate from the majority and then tries to tell the EU that a mandate from the majority has no significance.

 

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, said on Thursday in a letter to member states that Mr Johnson’s statement to the House of Commons earlier that day had been “rather combative”. He said the content of the address was “of course unacceptable” and incompatible with the negotiating mandate agreed by EU leaders. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-angela-merkel-brexit-backstop-eu-ireland-phone-call-a9022761.html

 

How many more obligations would you like to address.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

It is Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, and the UK are "obliged" to respect all treaties they signed up to.

Theresa May had little respect for her obligations and tried to circumvent procedure. She was a strong advocate of collective responsibility but went behind the backs of the negotiators in a failed attempt to deal with leaders direct, not a great deal of respect for the treaties.

Boris Johnson has stated that he will spend the financial settlement on essential services, no respect for any obligation and a move that will remove what little respect any nation has left for the UK.

The man is a total hypocrite. He claims to have a mandate from the majority and then tries to tell the EU that a mandate from the majority has no significance.

 

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, said on Thursday in a letter to member states that Mr Johnson’s statement to the House of Commons earlier that day had been “rather combative”. He said the content of the address was “of course unacceptable” and incompatible with the negotiating mandate agreed by EU leaders. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-angela-merkel-brexit-backstop-eu-ireland-phone-call-a9022761.html

 

How many more obligations would you like to address.

The obligations that I would like you to address are those in Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon. This article is the only one relevant to the withdrawal of a member state from the EU. Article 50 is quite brief and also quite straightforward. The word obligation is not used, however (in clause 2) the onus is put on the EU to "negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union". That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council [of the European Union], acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament".

 

Both Articles 50 and 218 do not empower the EU to lay down rules, terms and negotiation schedules to suit themselves. So if you want to appoint blame for circumventing procedure, you can blame the EU too. May, sadly and unnecessarily, accepted several preconditions before any real bargaining got going and also failed to promote a true path for reasonable negotiations. Barnier got away with laying out the initial rules and schedules and it seems that he just carried on the same way  - he will be miffed and say we are now being combative now but so what? EU bullying, with UK timidity are big reasons that we are where we are now (no sensible deal available). It seems that the EU are very happy with the WA on offer, which is hardly surprising, as it is so bad in so many ways for the UK. I'm not a Boris fan but what he has said about renegotiation is correct, even if he is unlikely to get much joy out of the EU now. We are in overtime already, after all.  

 

[Basil B]

Even Larry is going...

 

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-26/could-the-pm-s-new-pooch-mean-goodbye-to-larry-the-cat/

[transam]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

It is Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, and the UK are "obliged" to respect all treaties they signed up to.

Theresa May had little respect for her obligations and tried to circumvent procedure. She was a strong advocate of collective responsibility but went behind the backs of the negotiators in a failed attempt to deal with leaders direct, not a great deal of respect for the treaties.

Boris Johnson has stated that he will spend the financial settlement on essential services, no respect for any obligation and a move that will remove what little respect any nation has left for the UK.

The man is a total hypocrite. He claims to have a mandate from the majority and then tries to tell the EU that a mandate from the majority has no significance.

 

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, said on Thursday in a letter to member states that Mr Johnson’s statement to the House of Commons earlier that day had been “rather combative”. He said the content of the address was “of course unacceptable” and incompatible with the negotiating mandate agreed by EU leaders. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-angela-merkel-brexit-backstop-eu-ireland-phone-call-a9022761.html

 

How many more obligations would you like to address.

Do you never stop....Good grief...????

 

Don't worry, The Heinkel's, Dorniers and Fockers are all wash machines now....????

[sandyf]

30 minutes ago, transam said:

Do you never stop....Good grief...????

 

Don't worry, The Heinkel's, Dorniers and Fockers are all wash machines now....????

Yes, we know you just want the brexit BS.

[transam]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Yes, we know you just want the brexit BS.

It maybe BS to you but Brits voted to leave the Germans....Oooop's, the EU...

[Nigel Garvie]

1 minute ago, transam said:

It maybe BS to you but Brits voted to leave the Germans....Oooop's, the EU...

Oh dear, it's those awful Germans again. Actung Spitfire! The question is,  was reading too many Biggles books responsible for turning people's brains into cabbages.

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Cameron told us the referendum result would be binding, end of story...

 

Then theres you going on about your chums across the channel and what the UK should do to honour stuff, yet you have not condemned the vote not being honoured...Why is that...?

Cameron was a politician, end of story. Nobody has the authority to speak for parliament.

There was no white paper published prior to the referendum so why should I condemn something that was fundamentally flawed in the first place.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Oh dear, it's those awful Germans again. Actung Spitfire! The question is,  was reading too many Biggles books responsible for turning people's brains into cabbages.

Actually It was my late dad and two grandfathers.....????

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Cameron was a politician, end of story. Nobody has the authority to speak for parliament.

There was no white paper published prior to the referendum so why should I condemn something that was fundamentally flawed in the first place.

It was only flawed in your mind, Cameron did not speak for parliament, parliament voted for a referendum, nothing illegal in that.

[transam]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Cameron was a politician, end of story. Nobody has the authority to speak for parliament.

There was no white paper published prior to the referendum so why should I condemn something that was fundamentally flawed in the first place.

The people, who mainly understand nothing about parliament and the way it works, were told by the leader of the day the vote outcome would be final...

 

YOU obviously don't give a toss what your countrymen voted for do you..?

[sandyf]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

It was only flawed in your mind, Cameron did not speak for parliament, parliament voted for a referendum, nothing illegal in that.

Stick with the context.

"Cameron told us the referendum result would be binding, end of story..."

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Cameron was a politician, end of story. Nobody has the authority to speak for parliament. 

 

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

It was only flawed in your mind, Cameron did not speak for parliament, parliament voted for a referendum, nothing illegal in that.

 

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

The people, who mainly understand nothing about parliament and the way it works, were told by the leader of the day the vote outcome would be final...

 

YOU obviously don't give a toss what your countrymen voted for do you..?

You are quite right, the majority have little understanding on how parliament works and even less on the EU or the complexity of the relationship, yet you seem to think that an informed decision was made on that basis. Without a white paper there should have been provision for confirmation once the terms of separation had been established.

 

I have to assume you are of the opinion that Scotland voted to leave.

[metisdead]

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