Thai tourism in trouble: And competitor Vietnam is "scary" for Pattaya

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, kinyara said:

Retrospectively when you apply for your annual extension 9 months later.

So, yet another bank letter required.  Right?

 

More paperwork.  More bureaucracy. My running around.  More expense.  No bank letters need in Vietnam.

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, Max69xl said:

I am an expat and have been living here for years. I don't personally see my life here as costly. My rent is 25-30% cheaper than in my home country. I am staying in a 76 sqm condo for a really low price. I have no problems what so ever at the local Immigration office. I have timed every needed visit with my 90 days reports. I can't complain about anything than maybe crappy exchange rates. But I can't do anything about that. Nothing to get a heart attack from. ????

Imaging a similar lifestyle, in a similar climate and environment, where your rent was 60% to 70% cheaper than your home country for the same sized condo, with a pay as you go visa, just pay the money and here is your visa, no other hoops to jump through, where you only see immigration once a year, at a boarder, well, that place is called Vietnam.  ????

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, Max69xl said:

I don't listen to them, and I am quite sure quite a few posters here don't have a clue about rules and regulations at the moment. Some are still posting info about 1 year visas in VN, when they actually have stopped issuing them. 

Have you ever been to Vietnam?  If so, how long did you stay?

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Just let the whiners go there. Then wait and see how long they will stay. 

Well, the western tourists are certainly going there now.  Do you think Thailand will be able to lure them back in the future?

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, Max69xl said:

The visa system in VN is not easier at the moment. Nothing in my opinion can be easier than the 1 year extension here which takes me less than 5min every time. I am also staying 5min from Immigration.

Ease is one thing, what about cost?  And yes, the 800k, 400k which you can not use, in a useless Thai bank account, should be included in the cost. 

[RoadWarrior371]

6 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Well, the western tourists are certainly going there now.  Do you think Thailand will be able to lure them back in the future?

Why do you think Thailand even wants them back?  The purposely took steps to make them leave.  Take a hint, and stop whining.  Geez

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, kinyara said:

Well possibly like you they may consider it cheap and easy, thus, more user friendly but actually choose to stay in Thailand for some bizarre reason best known to themselves.

This is because I have actively sort a Plan B to Thailand.  Things are changing in Thailand.  It's not only the visa laws, it's the demographics of the tourists as well. 

 

If / when they introduce a junk health insurance policy for 100k baht, I will definitely be going to Vietnam.  It would be different if such a policy actually gave proper coverage, but a policy that covers basically nothing, on top of my existing expensive policy that covers me well, will see me go to Vietnam. 

 

It's not about being unable to pay, but more about the 100k going into the hands of a military lead government who have set up their own "accredited" insurance companies to profit immensely from foreigners. 

 

If / when things go pear shape here, I know exactly where I will be going, right down to the condo block.  I have already set up a bank account and a sim card.  So, I have looked right into Vietnam's visa system, and my information is current.  

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Tax Residents in Vietnam have to pay tax on their worldwide income at progressive taxrates. Therefore, salary earned from working abroad is taxable in Vietnam.

 

Horrible alternative for young people that earn income to thailand. Might be ok as a retiree.

 

 

Firstly, most expats in Vietnam are retired.  They are living there on a 5 year multiple entry marriage visa, or a 3 month tourist visas, extended within Vietnam 3 times, for a 1 year stay.  Obviously, they pay no income tax.

 

After reading your post I contacted an English teacher in Vietnam I know, because I was interested in their income tax rates.  He told me the school pays him cash at the end of every month, and he was living there on tourists visas.  He said this is the way it works for most English teachers. 

 

So, no taxes, and left alone by the police / immigration. 

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Don't compare tourists with expats, it's not same thing. that's not what this thread is about. 

This thread actually is about tourism.

 

I suggest that today's tourist is tomorrow's expat.

 

So, if a westerner frequently holidays to Vietnam, fair chance they will aspire to retiree to Vietnam.

 

I can't see Mr. Wong from China and Mr. Patel from India retiring in Thailand in the future.  Just think about that. 

 

It's holidays that advertise a country to perspective retiree expats, and with Thailand rapidly losing the western tourist market, I can't see the Chinese and Indians replacing the western expats that have passed on. 

[Leaver]

21 minutes ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

Why do you think Thailand even wants them back?  The purposely took steps to make them leave.  Take a hint, and stop whining.  Geez

Why do you think the Thai guy in the OP called Vietnam "scary."  Geez, if a Thai can see it, surely you can.  ????

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, madmen said:

That is from  the Vietnam tourism website the equivalent to TAT lol. 

Get me non fake news

The TAT is famous for rubbery figures.  No need for Vietnam's Tourism Authority to deceive when they know they are going so well.

[Anythingleft?]

 

Until it isn't anymore and too many people come, aka the chinese.

 

I don't get it into my head how someone can expatriate on a touri visa, it's just waiting for trouble to happen, might be ok as young backpacker but not for someone with a serious life.

 

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Whats the difference between a tourist visa and a retirement visa in Thailand as far as regulations that could be changed at any future point?

 

The only difference in a practical aspect is the terminology surely. They can all be revoked, altered or modified in any number of ways that may not suit the future applicant or current holder

 

Probably the only way to avoid all the challenges would be to become a resident.....

 

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, KhunFred said:

You can stay forever on a tourist visa in Vietnam. They don't split hairs on strict definitions like Thailand does.

Correct.

 

20 hours ago, KhunFred said:

With a tourist visa, you will have to cross the border every ninety days.

Not correct.  A 3 month tourist visa can be extended inside Vietnam 3 times, which equals 1 year, before you have to cross a board and come straight back in again.

20 hours ago, KhunFred said:

SInce Vietnam is progressive, I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before they fine tune their visa process

I agree.  Only a matter of time before they introduce a retirement visa similar to Thailand.  

21 hours ago, KhunFred said:

The Philippines is currently the standard bearer for sane visa regulations.

Malaysia has the best package for retirees.  The Malaysia My 2nd Home scheme.

[Max69xl]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Firstly, most expats in Vietnam are retired.  They are living there on a 5 year multiple entry marriage visa, or a 3 month tourist visas, extended within Vietnam 3 times, for a 1 year stay.  Obviously, they pay no income tax.

 

After reading your post I contacted an English teacher in Vietnam I know, because I was interested in their income tax rates.  He told me the school pays him cash at the end of every month, and he was living there on tourists visas.  He said this is the way it works for most English teachers. 

 

So, no taxes, and left alone by the police / immigration. 

Left alone by immigration? Yeah,right. You're a bit naive. Do you think you're living incognito in VN?

So instead of whining about Thailand,why don't you just leave? Then you're mentioning insurances and 100k,which is inaccurate. I have a quite good one,and I'm paying 30k this year,and 10% off next year. It's international and even incl. travel insure when I'm 150km away from my registered address. 

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, madmen said:

thai Retirement extension is the best in SEA.Never need to leave the country again. for those running don't blame Thailand but blame your Embassy

Blame is a waste of time.  Best to get on with Plan B and adjusting. 

 

No Embassy letters just might be the subtle push many need to realize maybe the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

[Anythingleft?]

Back on topic, I agree with another poster that the tourism has a major impact on the retirees anyhow
Would you retire to a country that you had never spent a substantial amount of time in to get to know?

The more hurdles they place in the way of tourists the less tourists will come
The more unwelcome you make tourists feel they will not return
The stronger the baht becomes the less tourists will come

Without tourists you have no future retirees......

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[Max69xl]

13 minutes ago, Leaver said:

The TAT is famous for rubbery figures.  No need for Vietnam's Tourism Authority to deceive when they know they are going so well.

If a car company sells 5 cars one month, and 10 cars the month after, then sales went up 100%. That's how statistics works. It's exactly same about tourism. Low numbers last year might show up as very strong this year. But you don't need that many tourists to make it look good when talking percentages.

Didn't you learn anything in school?

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, Max69xl said:

If people say that it's easier to stay in VN as an expat compared to Thailand,then they don't know what they're talking about. I have seen so many posts here that are inaccurate.

People who doesn't meet the requirements are the ones complaining the most. Where common tourists are going for their holidays are totally irrelevant. The way you enter Thailand or VN is exactly the same. 

What would be your advice to someone under 50 years of age who wants to live in Thailand????

 

In Vietnam, someone under 50 can live in Vietnam on tourist visas, perpetually. 

 

Surely you admit that is easier that Thailand. 

 

I am not complaining.  I can meet the requirement here, but maybe I am unwilling to. 

 

Where common tourist go now may be relevant for where they with to retire to in the future.  I'm sure all expats came to Thailand for a holiday/s, before deciding to retiree here.  It's tourism that advertises a place to future retirees.

 

No, the way you enter Thailand and Vietnam is different.  Most get a 30 day visa exemption in Thailand.  In Vietnam, about 6 western countries get a 15 day visa exemption.  If you are not one of the 6, you need a visa, but once again, no grief.  No documents to supply.  No, "you go Vietnam too much."  None of this happens.  Just pay your money and get your visa.    

[Max69xl]

13 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Blame is a waste of time.  Best to get on with Plan B and adjusting. 

 

No Embassy letters just might be the subtle push many need to realize maybe the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

You're just a whiner, and will not move anywhere. You'll see that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. 

[Leaver]

7 hours ago, kinyara said:

This is why I reply to false and misleading usernames, such as yours. "Stayer"

I very well might stay.  I like it here.  Vietnam is my Plan B, and I have thoroughly checked the place out.  Right down to city and condo block. 

 

I am not a boiling frog, like so many here. 

[Max69xl]

15 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said:

Back on topic, I agree with another poster that the tourism has a major impact on the retirees anyhow
Would you retire to a country that you had never spent a substantial amount of time in to get to know?

The more hurdles they place in the way of tourists the less tourists will come
The more unwelcome you make tourists feel they will not return
The stronger the baht becomes the less tourists will come

Without tourists you have no future retirees......

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

What hurdles do they place in the way of common tourists visiting Thailand? Please,mention one. 

[Leaver]

19 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said:

Back on topic, I agree with another poster that the tourism has a major impact on the retirees anyhow
Would you retire to a country that you had never spent a substantial amount of time in to get to know?

The more hurdles they place in the way of tourists the less tourists will come
The more unwelcome you make tourists feel they will not return
The stronger the baht becomes the less tourists will come

Without tourists you have no future retirees......

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

Yes, this is what I am trying to say.  It's not rocket science. 

 

Now, add to this, changing the goal posts on the expats already here, and Thailand will have a declining expat market, in the same way they have a rapidly declining western tourism market. 

[Leaver]

8 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You're just a whiner, and will not move anywhere. You'll see that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. 

I've been to Vietnam many times, as well as traveled around the region, extensively.

 

Let me guess, all you know is Pattaya and a village in Issan. 

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If a car company sells 5 cars one month, and 10 cars the month after, then sales went up 100%. That's how statistics works. It's exactly same about tourism. Low numbers last year might show up as very strong this year. But you don't need that many tourists to make it look good when talking percentages.

Didn't you learn anything in school?

But the company is used to selling 20 cars, during the month they sold 10, based on previous year's sales data, so that's a 100% decline.  That is what Pattaya / Thailand is looking at, hence, the OP.

 

You even have Thai people saying in the media now that "Vietnam is scary for Pattaya."  What he really means is, Vietnam is taking all of our western tourists. 

 

What would you say to him????  "Don't worry, my visa only takes 15 mins a year and cost 1900 baht and I live 5 mins from immigration."  ????

 

 

[Leaver]

33 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Left alone by immigration? Yeah,right. You're a bit naive. Do you think you're living incognito in VN?

So instead of whining about Thailand,why don't you just leave? Then you're mentioning insurances and 100k,which is inaccurate. I have a quite good one,and I'm paying 30k this year,and 10% off next year. It's international and even incl. travel insure when I'm 150km away from my registered address. 

Have you done any research into what is around the corner here????

 

You can't use just any insurance policy, it will have to be one accredited by the Thai government, who I am sure, are setting up such companies now, to benefit themselves, and you have to have a policy from one of them.  They will be expensive, and cover nothing, so the guys in Thai government get big money in, with no money out, through their sham insurance companies.  

 

Basically, you will be forced to keep your original policy, because it actually covers you, and buy the junk Thai accredited policy, so you can get your visa. 

 

Wake up. 

[Leaver]

14 hours ago, Inn Between said:

My research shows that (legally) all residents in Vietnam, whether locals or foreigners, have to have their address registered with the police. I suppose that's likely the nature of all communist gov'ts, but in reality, this is usually ignored by landlords, local residents and also the police. However, I cannot find a requirement for them to re-register every time they go away for a few days as I believe is the case with TM30's.

 

But what I can't understand why you feel the need for such a comment, calling everyone who has decided to try Vietnam over Thailand a sucker. Why do you feel so critical towards people who want to try living there? It's not just you. There are many people here who get offensive toward people who have abandoned Thailand. Do you take that personally? I'm really trying to understand the mind set that can't accept people who want something different. Do you people somehow feel threatened or insulted by those who want to explore what many blogs and articles describe as one of the top retirement destinations in the world? Are you people virtually trapped in Thailand by property or people in your lives and feel resentment toward us who have the freedom to explore and live in other places?

 

Live and let live is a REALLY good approach to life, IMO. Check that idea out. You may like it and learn that it can eliminate hostile thoughts toward others, which will inevitably make your life more peaceful. Each to their own. These hostile attitudes remind me of Islamic extremists who think anyone who doesn't believe in Allah should be killed.

 

 

Great post. 

 

There is a lot of psychology behind it.

 

Some have businesses here, so feel the need to criticize their competition, for financial gain.

 

Some have invested here, so feel the need to re-enforce their decision to invest by criticizing those pulling out of Thailand.

 

Some have emotional ties here, and can't leave, even though some may wish they could.  

 

Some can't sell their property to leave, so are trapped.   

 

Some submit to peer group pressure.  Eg.  everyone else is in The Thailand Club, so it must be good. 

 

Some have never been anywhere else other than a tourist area in Thailand, and a viilage in Issan, and won't have a word of it that there could be nicer, cleaner, friendlier, more affordable places nearby, with easier visa systems. 

 

Some have been here that long, the boiling frogs, that have just got used to all the BS.  

 

Like you, I don't see what's wrong with discussing the pro's and con's of all nearby countries.  It's not like there is only Thailand, with no other options for tourists and expats.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Leaver

[Anythingleft?]

What hurdles do they place in the way of common tourists visiting Thailand? Please,mention one. 

I'll use the TM30 as one example due to the complications arising from it's application

The complete lack of understanding of how it works, who is to apply it, where it is to be done and when it needs to be done
There is information available but a lot of "common tourists" will not be too interested in spending time researching the finer points and details for what should be an enjoyable holiday experience

Rightly or wrongly people read and hear about these rules and regulations and move onto the next page of the web. There they can go to another offer without hindrance before they spend any more time trying to get the full facts, mainly in part because the information out there is so innacurate and confusing people cannot be bothered to waste their time.....

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[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Anythingleft? said:

I'll use the TM30 as one example due to the complications arising from it's application

The complete lack of understanding of how it works, who is to apply it, where it is to be done and when it needs to be done
There is information available but a lot of "common tourists" will not be too interested in spending time researching the finer points and details for what should be an enjoyable holiday experience

Rightly or wrongly people read and hear about these rules and regulations and move onto the next page of the web. There they can go to another offer without hindrance before they spend any more time trying to get the full facts, mainly in part because the information out there is so innacurate and confusing people cannot be bothered to waste their time.....

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

I asked you about a common tourist visiting Thailand. A tourist never ever have to worry about the TM30 report. NEVER EVER. They don't have to submit a TM30 anywhere in Thailand. They are not responsible, and never will be. Expats/long stayers, yes.

So before you're complaining next time, check the facts first. 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Max69xl

[Anythingleft?]

I asked you about a common tourist visiting Thailand. A tourist never ever have to worry about the TM30 report. NEVER EVER. They don't have to submit a TM30 anywhere in Thailand. They are not responsible, and never will be. Expats/long stayers, yes.
So before you're complaining next time, check the facts first. 
 

You clearly understood my posts a clearly as I understand where my complaints were......




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[Max69xl]

7 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said:

 

 

You clearly understood my posts a clearly as I understand where my complaints were......




Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

 

No, I don't understand your post because it's 100% wrong. If you don't understand how the TM30 report works,don't complain about it.