Thai tourism in trouble: And competitor Vietnam is "scary" for Pattaya

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I have heard of this happening 3 months after extension renewal in Jomtiem, Chiang Rai and some other place. But not elsewhere, nor beyond the 3 months, checking for the 400k. And I pore over this forum a good bit. 

Also it is not usually associated with the regular 90 day report. Some smaller IOs attempted to realign the 90 day report so that the 800k check could be done at the same time.

At this time, needing your bank book to do 90 day reports is not likely.

At Jomtien Immigration only 3 months after the application. I did mine a couple of weeks ago. The lady took my papers,looked at them for maybe 15 seconds,smiled and said: You can go now. There's nothing about showing >400k for the rest of the year. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Max69xl

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, kinyara said:

 

Not at all in fact you have just reiterated what I said, you cannot get a 1 year visa.  " Currently on hold ", ( when is a clampdown not a clampdown ), and I expect them to be available again in the future - well I guess we can sleep easy because you have a feeling it might be available in the future, care to put a timeframe on your expectation, what have those in charge personally told you  ?

 

3 months is what I stated you will get and you agreed. However you point out for the benefit of those who find it inconvenient and a massive hoop to do a 5 minute visit to Thai immigration every 90 days you can have the pleasure of renewing that 3 month visa in Vietnam every 90 days for the cost of a Thai retirement visa each time.  Sounds great.

 

PS Retirement bank balance only required to be shown once 90 days after visa issue in Jomtien, since you're a stickler for accuracy.

 

Anyway I wish you luck in Vietnam, no point remaining in a country where a few photocopies and an hour of your time a year is such a hardship for you. When are your leaving ?

I can't be clearer than this, if you are looking for a visa called "Retirement Visa" in Vietnam, you will not find one, because it doesn't exist.   

 

However, this doesn't not mean you can not live in Vietnam on Tourist Visas, in the same way many have done in Thailand in the past, or are currently trying to.

 

Currently, you can perpetually live in Vietnam on Tourist Visas.  This is not illegal, and is not bending the rules.  Vietnam has a pay as you go visa system.  Pay your money, get your visa.  You can do this 100 times, no problem at all.

 

You get a 3 month multiple entry Tourist Visa for around $70.  This can be renewed 3 times inside Vietnam.  Many expats use agents to do the extension as they couldn't be bothered going to the immigration office themselves.   3 months, extended 3 times in Vietnam, equals a 1 year stay.

 

Then, you have to leave Vietnam, but you can come straight back on another 3 month multiple entry Tourist Visa, even on the same day.  If you arrange your visa online, you do not even have to go to a Vietnam Consulate in a nearby country.  Many cross a boarder, and turn around and come straight back across the boarder into Vietnam. 

 

You simplification of the Thai system that allows you a 1 year stay is misleading.  All you describe is what happens at the immigration office every 90 days and annually.  You don't mention the financial requirements, seasoning periods, TM30, bank letters, monthly transfers, re entry permits etc.

 

If you want to compare "hardship" of a 1 year visa for Thailand versus Vietnam, Thailand loses, both on cost, and on ease.  

 

This post hasn't even touched on the true cost, in money terms, of having your 800k / 400k tied up in a Thai bank, earning next to nothing.  

 

Vietnam's visa system is more user friendly.  Other than crossing a boarder once a year, there are no other requirements.  Many expats make that 1 year boarder run a visit to their home country, or to a nearby country for a sporting, cultural, shopping, or music event.

 

I will make my decision to stay or leave soon. If I decide to stay, I will be using an agent.   

 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Leaver

[Leaver]

12 minutes ago, kinyara said:

How is Thailand not "Pay as you go", I pay 1,900 baht a year get my annual visa and go.

Once again, you do not mention the financial requirements, which is the REAL cost of the visa. 

[mercman24]

have the Indians got to fill in a TM30 to leave the reservation, they coming by war pony, ? (oops wrong indians)

[Leaver]

24 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Only 1 time! I have already done mine. It doesn't say every 90 days. It says to show >800k after 90 days. Nothing about the need for showing >400k rest of the year. 

So, how do they plan on enforcing the going under 400k throughout the year requirement?

Edited September 8, 2019 by Leaver

[kinyara]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

So, how do they plan on enforcing the going under 400k throughout the year requirement?

Retrospectively when you apply for your annual extension 9 months later.

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I can't be clearer than this, if you are looking for a visa called "Retirement Visa" in Vietnam, you will not find one, because it doesn't exist.   

 

However, this doesn't not mean you can not live in Vietnam on Tourist Visas, in the same way many have done in Thailand in the past, or are currently trying to.

 

Currently, you can perpetually live in Vietnam on Tourist Visas.  This is not illegal, or not bending the rules.  Vietnam has a pay as you go visa system.  Pay your money, get your visa.  You can do this 100 times.

 

You get a 3 month multiple entry Tourist Visa for around $70.  This can be renewed 3 times inside Vietnam.  Many expats use agents to do the extension as they couldn't be bothered going to the immigration office themselves.   3 months, extended 3 times in Vietnam, equals a 1 year stay.

 

Then, you have to leave Vietnam, but you can come straight back on another 3 month multiple entry Tourist Visa, even on the same day.  If you arrange your visa online, you do not even have to a Vietnam Consulate in a nearby country.  Many cross a boarder, and turn around and come straight back across the boarder into Vietnam. 

 

You simplification of the Thai system that allows you a 1 year stay is misleading.  All you describe is what happens at the immigration office every 90 days and annually.  You don't mention the financial requirements, seasoning period, TM30, bank letters, monthly transfers etc.

 

If you want to compare "hardship" of a 1 year visa fro Thailand versus Vietnam, Thailand loses, both on cost, and on ease.  

 

This post hasn't even touched on the true cost, in money terms, of having your 800k / 400k tied up in a Thai bank, earning next to nothing.  

 

Vietnam's visa system is more user friendly.  Other than crossing a boarder once a year, there are requirements.  Many expats make that 1 year board run a visit to their home country, or to a nearby country for a sporting, cultural, shopping, or music event.

 

I will make my decision to stay or leave soon. If I decide to stay, I will be using an agent.   

 

 

I never spend more than 15min a year at Jomtien Immigration. My last 1 year extension took exactly 3min+1min waiting, the 90 days reports 1,5 min each when going there after 1pm, my extensions (1900 baht/year) are timed with my 90 days reports,so is the new (1 time only) 90 days check for >800k in the bank after 3 months. I'm staying 5min from my Immigration office. My bank is 80 meters from my immigration office, and after 12 o'clock I get my bank letter in 5 min incl. the bankbook update. Cost: 100 baht.

So, you're saying it's time consuming compared to VN? You don't know what your talking about.

Tell me how much you can accomplish in VN in 15min/year + 5 min travel time 4-5 times a year compared to what I just told you?

 

[Max69xl]

26 minutes ago, Leaver said:

So, how do they plan on enforcing the going under 400k throughout the year requirement?

To be honest, I don't think they have a clue. They must have missed it. They are not rocket scientists. I guess the only way is showing the bankbook when doing the 90 days reports. We have to see what happens. ????

Edited September 8, 2019 by Max69xl

[Leaver]

36 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Retrospectively when you apply for your annual extension 9 months later.

So, a bank letter with monthly balance certification?

 

In any case, more paperwork, more leg work, more waiting in a queue, more expense.

 

None of which exists in Vietnam. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Leaver

[Leaver]

21 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

I never spend more than 15min a year at Jomtien Immigration. My last 1 year extension took exactly 3min+1min waiting, the 90 days reports 1,5 min each when going there after 1pm, my extensions (1900 baht/year) are timed with my 90 days reports,so is the new (1 time only) 90 days check for >800k in the bank after 3 months. I'm staying 5min from my Immigration office. My bank is 80 meters from my immigration office, and after 12 o'clock I get my bank letter in 5 min incl. the bankbook update. Cost: 100 baht.

So, you're saying it's time consuming compared to VN? You don't know what your talking about.

Tell me how much you can accomplish in VN in 15min/year + 5 min travel time 4-5 times a year compared to what I just told you?

 

My 800k is in my home country earning between 6% to 8%.  What are you getting on your 800k, 400k of which you lose control of, that you are forced to put in a Thai bank, for a visa, at 1.5%. 

 

800,000k baht x 6% = 48,000 baht.

 

48,0000 baht + 1900 baht = 49,900 baht. 

 

This is the true cost of your visa, on top of all the other BS here.  Not the 15 minutes here, or the photo copy there, which you make sound so cheap and easy, which I find very misleading.

 

Then add re entry permits, around 5000 baht, TM30's, 90 day reports etc.

 

Compare this cost and hoops to the system in Vietnam, and you can see staying in Vietnam for 1 year is considerably cheaper and easier. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Leaver

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, Leaver said:

My 800k is in my home country earning between 6% to 8%

Which "home country" is that, and in what sort of investments?

[kinyara]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

You simplification of the Thai system that allows you a 1 year stay is misleading.  All you describe is what happens at the immigration office every 90 days and annually.  You don't mention the financial requirements, seasoning periods, TM30, bank letters, monthly transfers, re entry permits etc.

 

This post hasn't even touched on the true cost, in money terms, of having your 800k / 400k tied up in a Thai bank, earning next to nothing.  

 

I will make my decision to stay or leave soon. If I decide to stay, I will be using an agent.   

 

 

I simplify it because it's not in the least bit complicated, well to me anyway. 

 

TM30 - I go out of the country twice a year, by default eliminating 2 90 day reports, on arrival back I give my passport copy to my condo office who submit the details online to immigration.

 

Bank Letters - I get 1 a year which costs 150 baht and go off for a coffee for half an hour while they prepare it.

 

Re Entry Permits - I get 2 single entry ones a year and combine it with my 2 90 day reports, that saves about half an hour of my life a year.

 

Not sure what other "etc's" there are, that's it for me.

 

800k to 400k bank balance - Clearly stated, you've either got it or you haven't. I don't spend 400k in the 7 months I have access to my money, so I just bring enough cash back from my trips abroad to top up for the required period. Yet to meet a financial advisor who doesn't recommend having a percentage of an overall balanced portfolio in cash and as we know cash interest rates globally are <deleted>. I get more in my Thai account than I would instant access in my home country, it's available for a real emergency and of course I can take it with me should I choose to leave.

 

Honestly surprised you haven't made you're mind up about Vietnam when you are so convinced it suits your particular circumstance.

 

 

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

I simplify it because it's not in the least bit complicated, well to me anyway. 

 

TM30 - I go out of the country twice a year, by default eliminating 2 90 day reports, on arrival back I give my passport copy to my condo office who submit the details online to immigration.

 

Bank Letters - I get 1 a year which costs 150 baht and go off for a coffee for half an hour while they prepare it.

 

Re Entry Permits - I get 2 single entry ones a year and combine it with my 2 90 day reports, that saves about half an hour of my life a year.

 

Not sure what other "etc's" there are, that's it for me.

 

800k to 400k bank balance - Clearly stated, you've either got it or you haven't. I don't spend 400k in the 7 months I have access to my money, so I just bring enough cash back from my trips abroad to top up for the required period. Yet to meet a financial advisor who doesn't recommend having a percentage of an overall balanced portfolio in cash and as we know cash interest rates globally are <deleted>. I get more in my Thai account than I would instant access in my home country, it's available for a real emergency and of course I can take it with me should I choose to leave.

 

Honestly surprised you haven't made you're mind up about Vietnam when you are so convinced it suits your particular circumstance.

 

 

TM30 - do not exist in Vietnam.

 

Bank Letters - not needed in Vietnam.

 

Re Entry Permits - do not exist in Vietnam.

 

800k / 400lk equivalent - doesn't exist in Vietnam. 

 

Can't you see that all the things you call "simple" don't even exist in Vietnam, thus making things simpler there. 

 

I will probably use an agent and stay in Thailand, but I have looked right into Vietnam, as it's my Plan B.  This is why I reply to false and misleading posts, such as yours. 

 

This thread is about the tourists going to Vietnam, and how "scary" that is for Pattaya / Thailand.  Today's tourist is tomorrows retiree, and when the next wave of retirees compare visa systems, which one do you think they will view as more cheap and easy, thus, more user friendly?

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Leaver

[Max69xl]

30 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Retrospectively when you apply for your annual extension 9 months later.

That won't show if you were below 400k anytime in between the 90 days check and 2 months before next extension. 

[Max69xl]

12 minutes ago, Leaver said:

TM30 - do not exist in Vietnam.

 

Bank Letters - not needed in Vietnam.

 

Re Entry Permits - do not exist in Vietnam.

 

800k / 400lk equivalent - doesn't exist in Vietnam. 

 

Can't you see that all the things you call "simple" don't even exist in Vietnam, thus making things simpler there. 

 

I will probably use an agent and stay in Thailand, but I have looked right into Vietnam, as it's my Plan B.  This is why I reply to false and misleading posts, such as yours. 

 

There will be an equivalent for the TM30 in VN in the future,just wait and see. There are officially re-entry permits in VN,but you can fix that at immigration. At the moment there are no 1 year visas, only a 3 months visa that you can extend 3 times. That's 3 visits to the immigration office. Then you must leave the country and re-enter.

How is that convenient? 

About the >800k in the bank. You seem to think that every expat have problems meeting the financial requirements. That's not true,either. Maybe for you and your pals in your neighborhood. The money can be put in a FDA with 1,5-2% interest per year.Not so bad compared to a crappy savings account within the EU. Interest = 0%. You don't have to worry about bank letters anyway. I guess you can't afford having to park >800k in the bank. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Max69xl

[Leaver]

23 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Which "home country" is that, and in what sort of investments?

I'm from The UK, but I spent considerable time working in Australia.  I have investments and property in both places.

 

Below is an online comparison link.  For the example, I used "Multi Sector Balanced" and for the amount, I used $40,000AUD, which is close to 800,000 baht.  I will not say which fund I am invested in, but you can see their returns of between 6% to 8% averaged over 5 years.

 

https://www.canstar.com.au/compare/managed-funds/?profile=Multi-Sector+Balanced&amount=40000

 

As I have said, that 800k, 400k of which you can't even spend, makes for an expensive Thai visa.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Leaver

[IraqRon]

On 8/28/2019 at 10:34 AM, Ron jeremy said:

Stay the <deleted> away, I can actually sit on the beach promenade, and not beside some drunk or hooker. And stare out at a clean ocean, drinking a 50 cent beer. Don't turn this into soi buckow!????????

I felt exactly the same way during my visit to DaNang and elsewhere, the beach promenade was great, great seating on clean benches, by the way.  The seating/lounging areas on the beach were way cleaner , better organized and roomier than any similar thai beach areas I have been to.

[madmen]

There will be an equivalent for the TM30 in VN in the future,just wait and see. There are officially re-entry permits in VN,but you can fix that at immigration. At the moment there are no 1 year visas, only a 3 months visa that you can extend 3 times. That's 3 visits to the immigration office. Then you must leave the country and re-enter. How is that convenient?  About the >800k in the bank. You seem to think that every expat have problems meeting the financial requirements. That's not true,either. Maybe for you and your pals in your neighborhood. The money can be put in a FDA with 1,5-2% interest per year.Not so bad compared to a crappy savings account within the EU. Interest = 0%. You don't have to worry about bank letters anyway. I guess you can't afford having to park >800k in the bank. 

 

 

 

TM 30 already Vietnam and Cambodia

Feel sorry for the suckers that ran

 

 

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=782909

 

 

[moontang]

Has it occurred to anyone that it is unlikely Vietnam wishes to become a magnet for those unable to stay in Thailand, and the clampdown could be over due.  Some of the gold digging done by the VC girls is enough to make a Sathorn HiSo blush.  If it works for you, great, enjoy it while it lasts.  A few years is an eternity in a rapidly developing nation.  Met quite a few, who figured they would stay in Sihanoukeville forever..then came the Chinese.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

[ThomasThBKK]

3 hours ago, cerox said:

I leave Thailand in 5 weeks, will still come to visit every now and then.

 

Why spend 30k USD on Elite and plan my life ahead for 20 years when I can live in other countries who have developed a lot too. Pay as you go as someone here said before is also my thinking. Pay as you go was possible in some way for younger people with ED visa but now stopped.

 

For many retirees I think you complain on a high level; just deposit the 800k (it is still your money when you decide to leave)  - you have really no reasons to complain. Easy to get a visa.

 

Vietnam and Philippines both have easy visa. Philippines has SRRV visa starting at age 35; either invest in a condo or deposit 20k USD in bank. Second one is similar to retirement visa in TH when you lock some of your money, but I do not need to be 50 years old or buy myself into the Elite program.

 

Beeing an expat involves cost.

You don't sound like a thailand expat, more like a backpacker traveling around the world.

If you want to settle down in a country there's always money and visa stuff involved, no one would dare to even try this <deleted> in the US.

 

Education visas work totally fine, as long as you are a real student, none of the guys from Oxford and MIT that do research at Mahidol and co have ever had any Visa issues.

 

Guess you have worldwide income, have fun paying worldwide taxes on that in vietnam, cambodia,laos and co.

[ThomasThBKK]

Just now, moontang said:

Has it occurred to anyone that it is unlikely Vietnam wishes to become a magnet for those unable to stay in Thailand, and the clampdown could be over due.  Some of the gold digging done by the VC girls is enough to make a Sathorn HiSo blush.  If it works for you, great, enjoy it while it lasts.  A few years is an eternity in a rapidly developing nation.  Met quite a few, who figured they would stay in Sihanoukeville forever..then came the Chinese.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

They already clamp down, reject business visas as all agents just issued them on fake companies...

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, moontang said:

Has it occurred to anyone that it is unlikely Vietnam wishes to become a magnet for those unable to stay in Thailand, and the clampdown could be over due.  Some of the gold digging done by the VC girls is enough to make a Sathorn HiSo blush.  If it works for you, great, enjoy it while it lasts.  A few years is an eternity in a rapidly developing nation.  Met quite a few, who figured they would stay in Sihanoukeville forever..then came the Chinese.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

I totally agree. 

[ThomasThBKK]

14 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

There will be an equivalent for the TM30 in VN in the future,just wait and see. There are officially re-entry permits in VN,but you can fix that at immigration. At the moment there are no 1 year visas, only a 3 months visa that you can extend 3 times. That's 3 visits to the immigration office. Then you must leave the country and re-enter.

How is that convenient? 

About the >800k in the bank. You seem to think that every expat have problems meeting the financial requirements. That's not true,either. Maybe for you and your pals in your neighborhood. The money can be put in a FDA with 1,5-2% interest per year.Not so bad compared to a crappy savings account within the EU. Interest = 0%. You don't have to worry about bank letters anyway. I guess you can't afford having to park >800k in the bank. 

Don't listen to these vietnam people, TM30 equivalent exists in vietnam and even cambodia:

 

 

 

[moontang]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I'm from The UK, but I spent considerable time working in Australia.  I have investments and property in both places.

 

Below is an online comparison link.  For the example, I used "Multi Sector Balanced" and for the amount, I used $40,000AUD, which is close to 800,000 baht.  I will not say which fund I am invested in, but you can see their returns of between 6% to 8% averaged over 5 years.

 

https://www.canstar.com.au/compare/managed-funds/?profile=Multi-Sector+Balanced&amount=40000

 

As I have said, that 800k, 400k of which you can't even spend, makes for an expensive Thai visa.

Fidelity Contra Fund has returned about 9% per year for 50 years, average, but it still got cut in half in one 12 month period, so it is not a good comparison with government guaranteed fixed deposits, and neither is your comparison.

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

There will be an equivalent for the TM30 in VN in the future,just wait and see. There are officially re-entry permits in VN,but you can fix that at immigration. At the moment there are no 1 year visas, only a 3 months visa that you can extend 3 times. That's 3 visits to the immigration office. Then you must leave the country and re-enter.

How is that convenient? 

About the >800k in the bank. You seem to think that every expat have problems meeting the financial requirements. That's not true,either. Maybe for you and your pals in your neighborhood. The money can be put in a FDA with 1,5-2% interest per year.Not so bad compared to a crappy savings account within the EU. Interest = 0%. You don't have to worry about bank letters anyway. I guess you can't afford having to park >800k in the bank. 

Once again, more false and misleading information from you.

 

Foreigners are registered in VN, but it's not the foreigners responsibility to do so, just so they can be scammed out of 800 baht.  Hotels etc do it.  If they do not, they have a problem, not the guest. 

 

How can re entry permits exist when you have a multiple entry visa????????????????  You have to forget all Thailand's BS when discussing Vietnam's visa system.

 

The expats in VN use an agent to extend every 3 months, they do not have to go personally to the immigration office.

 

It's not about "parking" 800k, it's about being forced into a bad investment, for the sake of a Thai visa. 

 

I have 800k, but that does not mean I will transfer it to an unstable 3rd World country, costing me 50,000 baht a year, just so I can get a a visa?  Not to mention, I lose access to 400k of it.  Never going to happen, but I have no problems with the people who do, but just don't tell me your annual extension only costs 1900 baht.  ????

 

 

 

 

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, IraqRon said:

I felt exactly the same way during my visit to DaNang and elsewhere, the beach promenade was great, great seating on clean benches, by the way.  The seating/lounging areas on the beach were way cleaner , better organized and roomier than any similar thai beach areas I have been to.

Didn't you miss the smell of urine from the taxi drivers that constantly urinate on the trees near these beach benches?  ????

[Leaver]

8 minutes ago, moontang said:

Has it occurred to anyone that it is unlikely Vietnam wishes to become a magnet for those unable to stay in Thailand, and the clampdown could be over due.  Some of the gold digging done by the VC girls is enough to make a Sathorn HiSo blush.  If it works for you, great, enjoy it while it lasts.  A few years is an eternity in a rapidly developing nation.  Met quite a few, who figured they would stay in Sihanoukeville forever..then came the Chinese.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Pattaya being swamped by Chinese and Indians.  Same Same Sihanoukville, but without the casinos. 

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Beeing an expat involves cost.

You don't sound like a thailand expat, more like a backpacker traveling around the world.

If you want to settle down in a country there's always money and visa stuff involved, no one would dare to even try this <deleted> in the US.

 

Education visas work totally fine, as long as you are a real student, none of the guys from Oxford and MIT that do research at Mahidol and co have ever had any Visa issues.

 

Guess you have worldwide income, have fun paying worldwide taxes on that in vietnam, cambodia,laos and co.

I am an expat and have been living here for years. I don't personally see my life here as costly. My rent is 25-30% cheaper than in my home country. I am staying in a 76 sqm condo for a really low price. I have no problems what so ever at the local Immigration office. I have timed every needed visit with my 90 days reports. I can't complain about anything than maybe crappy exchange rates. But I can't do anything about that. Nothing to get a heart attack from. ????

[ThomasThBKK]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Foreigners are registered in VN, but it's not the foreigners responsibility to do so, just so they can be scammed out of 800 baht.  Hotels etc do it.  If they do not, they have a problem, not the guest. 

 

Same as Thailand, tons of people complain, and worst is vietnam blocks you from leaving the country if they think you didn't pay your taxes.

 

Nice prison to live in.

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, moontang said:

Fidelity Contra Fund has returned about 9% per year for 50 years, average, but it still got cut in half in one 12 month period, so it is not a good comparison with government guaranteed fixed deposits, and neither is your comparison.

I was simply asked where and what funds returned 6% to 8% returns.  So I provided some fund names from Australia and their returns.