Thai tourism in trouble: And competitor Vietnam is "scary" for Pattaya

[Matzzon]

25 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Your little maths lesson does not take into account that many expats buy property here, where tourists do not.  So that's an impact on the property market, particularly in the tourist areas.

 

Many expats here buy a vehicle, particularly cars, where tourists do not.  So that's an impact on Thailand's vehicle manufacturing industry.

 

Many expats get into a relationship with a Thai national, supporting their extended families, where tourists do not.  So that's their wealth being spread among other Thai's.

 

Many expats buy or start a business here, where tourists do not.  So that's an impact on employment and taxation revenue, albeit, small.  

 

I agree with you Thailand does not care about western expats, but what's wrong with promoting Thailand as retirement destination for expats?  Something like the Malaysian model.  

 

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/

 

Expats buy TV's, beds, white goods etc, on top of food, gas, electric etc.  Then spend on activities like golf, and domestic travel. 

 

Other neartby countries are enticing this demographic, rather then rejecting them, or making it difficult for them.

 

They cause no trouble, bring in foreign currency, do not work here, and pay their bills. 

Regarding everything except buying a condo or building a house, you can smack in to the total general amount of 50 000 baht per month.

When it comes to building a house or buying condo, that is rather irrelevant for the state coffers, so they are not interested in that.

Regarding the last things. They are not making it difficult. It´s only you and the moaning bunch on this forum that have problem with this. You probably represent 3-5% which makes my caculation totally irrelevant too. ???? 

Like I said before. The ones that are happy with their lives and have no problem you never hear about or anything from.

Again we go to the hooligans on a football match. They probably represent an even smaller percent of the visitors looking at the match, but they are the ones you hear and see. ???? 

If you now anyway are going to say that I am all wrong. Let´s say I put another 20k baht every month on the general calculation for the rest of the expats life to compete with all the investments, business and condos as well as cars and houses the guys buy.

Ok, I give it to you. Now we are up about around 8 promille. And that made what kind of difference?

Edited August 27, 2019 by Matzzon

[lkv]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I agree, expats are not important, but expats are large consumers.  That's property, vehicles, furniture, household items like electronics, leisure activities etc.  Tourists do not contribute to the Thai economy through this type of consumption.

Consumption of expats vs their democratic ideas. Lol.

 

The only thing these people care about is how much money THEY make and for how long. The longer, the better.

 

For this to be achieved, they have to stay in power and not be overthrown by coups, revolutions and so on.

 

This is what "national security" really means. It's THEIR security.

 

Long staying foreigners do not fit well in this scenario.

Edited August 27, 2019 by lkv

[Matzzon]

12 minutes ago, Leaver said:

If Thailand is making things difficult for me, and Vietnam is making things easy for me, I go.  It's that simple.  I don't need to put up with Thailand's BS. 

 

I am not in Thailand out of charity.

You are clearly out of the opinion that Thailand makes it difficult for you. Read your own post. What are we talking about then?

Edited August 27, 2019 by Matzzon

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

They are not making it difficult. It´s only you and the moaning bunch on this forum that have problem with this.

 

And next week they change the rules again, and more people get caught up in the net and start moaning and look at leaving.

 

What do you think makes you immune from their future changes?

 

Would you like to have to pay 100k baht for a useless health insurance policy?

 

6 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

When it comes to building a house or buying condo, that is rather irrelevant for the state coffers

 

Don't you think the construction industry is an important industry?  It employs a lot of people.

 

[Matzzon]

14 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Don't you mean, Thai's in the tourism industry will suffer the actions of the wealthy Thai elite?

You need to ask yourself, who created the consequences. Then you would not need to ask that question. ???? (Means, yes!)

[Leaver]

9 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

You are clearly out of the opinion that Thailand makes it difficult for you. Read your own post. What are we talking about then?

 

I am considering Vietnam, but did you read the link about Malaysia?  That's quite an enticing offer for a retired expats.  Certainly when compared to the BS we put up with here.

 

You basically said it yourself, Thailand will not learn until it's too late.

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Leaver

[Leaver]

7 minutes ago, lkv said:

Long staying foreigners do not fit well in this scenario.

Neither does the average Thai citizen working in the tourism industry. 

[Matzzon]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Don't you think the construction industry is an important industry?  It employs a lot of people.

Oh dear! Are you going to bring up all production lines, products and services one by one and try to convince about that they will suffer soo much if the expat community wasn´t here? It´s starting to be riddiculous!

The contruction industry will be fine. Do I really have to make a new calculation about how much the house building expat stand for in the percentage of Thai building industry?

Just look at your own comment. If you are moving you love Thailand so much that you will come back as a tourist. If more people think like you then expats leaving also contribute to the building industry. They have to build more hotels.

[lkv]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

Neither does the average Thai citizen working in the tourism industry. 

The Elite does not care about Thais either. The poorer they are, the better. 

 

Middle class or too much education is not encouraged nor desired for the fuctionality of the regime. Otherwise, people think too much, talk too much, riot.

 

Look at Hong Kong now and how "thrilled" China is about the current events.

[Matzzon]

12 minutes ago, Leaver said:

What do you think makes you immune from their future changes?

Nothing makes me immune against the changes, and they can come over night. One thing, though, I´ve learned to roll with the punches and not walk straight into them. so, I will be fine. ???? 
 

Quote

 

Would you like to have to pay 100k baht for a useless health insurance policy?

Had a health insurance since I left for Thailand over 20 years ago. I do not see it as a useless thing someone force me to pay for. I see it as a responsible thing like everyone in a foreign country should be equipped with.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Matzzon

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Nothing makes me immune against the changes,

So give me an example of a change that would be a game changer for you. 

 

Just because others have experienced a change that has changed the game for them, no need to criticize them.

 

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Had a health insurance since I left for Thailand over 20 years ago.

 

Sure, as I do, but it's not some junk policy, bought in by the Thai government, so a foreigner qualifies for a visa. 

 

Wouldn't you find being forced to pay 100k for a useless health insurance policy, on top of your existing decent policy, somewhat distasteful? 

[lkv]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Wouldn't you find being forced to pay 100k for a useless health insurance policy, on top of your existing decent policy, somewhat distasteful? 

 

For an insurance provider to make it on the list of preferred providers, monetary cuts have to go all the way to the top. Everybody has to be well fed.

 

So when an expat purchases one of these insurances, they will feed tens of people in the chain.

 

You want to take food of their tables, just because you find it distasteful? ????

 

/end of sarcasm

Edited August 27, 2019 by lkv

[Matzzon]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

So give me an example of a change that would be a game changer for you. 

 

Just because others have experienced a change that has changed the game for them, no need to criticize them.

Not criticizing them. It´s there own choice. I do not think I can find something that would be a game changer that easy. It will really take sometime sitting thinking with a really good whiskey. ???? 
 

Maybe if they extended the closing hours at midday for the freedom to buy alcohol. (just kidding)

 

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Sure, as I do, but it's not some junk policy, bought in by the Thai government, so a foreigner qualifies for a visa. 

 

Wouldn't you find being forced to pay 100k for a useless health insurance policy, on top of your existing decent policy, somewhat distasteful? 

Yes, I would not accept that. It´s also not going to happen. The ones that today have a policy that are higher than the ones they offer and are guaranteed to work in Thailand are of course giong to be valid. All other stuff is just pure empty talking. (I hope ???? Otherwise, that would definately be the game changer you were earching for.)

[CharlieH]

Reported off topic post removed.

[Matzzon]

2 minutes ago, lkv said:

the list of preferred providers

Exactly! A list of preferred providers. Which automatically means there are other valid choices.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Matzzon

[lkv]

24 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Exactly! A list of preferred providers. Which automatically means there are other valid choices.

Yeah, you can count them on the fingers of one hand, they all would have "signed" profitable "arrangements" with decision makers.

 

Generally, the way business is conducted in Thailand, they would hold shares in those companies.

 

All the major Thai conglomerates would also include Army on their shareholder's list. It's good for business.

 

Doesn't matter too much which insurance you choose, as long as you get one from the list.

 

But of course, you have choices ????

 

In the West, we'd call it corruption and conflict of interests, here they call it: "making sure the long term guest is insured, because we care, and giving him choices of insurance providers".

Edited August 27, 2019 by lkv

[Leaver]

54 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Not criticizing them. It´s there own choice.

 

Many made their choice of Thailand a long time ago, under different rules. 

 

Now, the Thai government has changed the goal posts on them, and they are struggling.  This is not applicable to me, but there are many in this situation who are law abiding, do not work here, and pay their bills.

 

56 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, I would not accept that. It´s also not going to happen.

 

Never say never in Thailand. 

 

What would you do if forced to buy an expensive junk policy, on top of an already expensive proper policy?

 

This is just one example, but expats would have to ask themselves, "Is it still worth staying in Thailand?"

 

56 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

The ones that today have a policy that are higher than the ones they offer and are guaranteed to work in Thailand are of course giong to be valid.

 

You don't know that. 

 

 

[Leaver]

58 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Exactly! A list of preferred providers. Which automatically means there are other valid choices.

 

Yes, but they would be expensive junk policies designed purely as a visa requirement. 

 

You would still need your proper insurance policy. 

 

So, just another visa cost.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

Yeah, you can count them on the fingers of one hand, they all would have "signed" profitable "arrangements" with decision makers.

 

Generally, the way business is conducted in Thailand, they would hold shares in those companies.

 

All the major Thai conglomerates would also include Army on their shareholder's list. It's good for business.

 

Doesn't matter too much which insurance you choose, as long as you get one from the list.

 

But of course, you have choices ????

 

In the West, we'd call it corruption and conflict of interests, here they call it: "making sure the long term guest is insured, because we care, and giving him choices of insurance providers".

I agree.  This is typical of many things in Thailand, because the money must flow up, and towards Bangkok. 

 

It's one of the reasons Thailand's tourism industry is in the trouble it is in. 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Leaver

[Matzzon]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You don't know that.

Why did you only copy half, and changed the total of what I wrote? There was an I hope after. ???? 

 

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Why did you only copy half, and changed the total of what I wrote? There was an I hope after. ???? 

 

I think you will find most expats require consistency across the provinces, transparency, clear and concise laws, proper enforcement, and some common sense from the Thai government, not "hope."  ????

[Matzzon]

9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Now, the Thai government has changed the goal posts on them, and they are struggling.

What goal posts have been changed regarding the economy? The rules was written before most of them moved here, and they could clearly check up what was needed to live in Thailand. Ok, they did not enforce them as they do today, but if the law was there, the one move to a foreign bountry should be aware of them and see to that they can follow them.

Here there were many faking their monthly and yearly amounts on affidavits, and they are naturally hurting now.

The ones I feel sorry for, is the ones that are badly hit by falling currencies. But that you can not blame Thailand entirely for.

However, I am not affected of this anyway, like you. I have moved my money to secure places and much to Thailand. Actually richer than I was before.

[Leaver]

11 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

What goal posts have been changed regarding the economy?

Not so much to do with the economy, but more to do with changes to the visa requirements. 

 

Mainly, changes to the 800k / 400k method.  Longer seasoning period for the 800k, and 400k you can not access, at all.  Do you deny this?

 

11 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Here there were many faking their monthly and yearly amounts on affidavits, and they are naturally hurting now.

 

True, but amazing how visa agents can get around all of this.  ????  They just shaped the new rules to direct money to immigration, through agents. 

 

11 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

The ones I feel sorry for, is the ones that are badly hit by falling currencies. But that you can not blame Thailand entirely for.

 

I agree, but the baht is being held artificially strong.

 

11 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

However, I am not affected of this anyway, like you.

 

At this stage, I am also not effected.  I am in the process of weighing up whether it's worth staying here.  No problem for me if I have to leave. 

 

I'll see how things go with the agents, but no way would I move 800k here.

 

11 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I have moved my money to secure places and much to Thailand.

 

Thailand is not a secure place, but many are forced to move their money here.  There is a big difference. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Leaver

[Matzzon]

8 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Not so much to do with the economy, but more to do with changes to the visa requirements. 

 

Mainly, changes to the 800k / 400k method.  Longer seasoning period for the 800k, and 400k you can not access, at all.  Do you deny this?

No I not deny, but I consider that you will need much more than measly 800k baht to move to a foreign country and settle there to be a safe and thinking person that live in reality. Therefore locking or not is irrelevant when having more money. You just can´t live on the last stone of the pier.
 

Quote

True, but amazing how visa agents can get around all of this.  ????  They just shaped the new rules to direct money to immigration, through agents. 

Settled then. It is not so har. Actually easier than before.
 

Quote

I agree, but the baht is being held artificially strong.

Yes, that is an unrealistic value.
 

Quote

At this stage, I am also not effected.  I am in the process of weighing up whether it's worth staying here.  No problem for me if I have to leave. 

 

I'll see how things go with the agents, but no way would I move 800k here.

 

 

Thailand is not a secure place, but many are forced to move their money here.  There is a big difference. 

No the bigger part is not there. ????  Wish you luck with the agents then. ???? 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Matzzon

[Seeall]

On 7/23/2019 at 11:42 AM, Lucius verus said:

ANZ bank this morning offering 20.9 baht for your hard earned dollars.

You may as well just toss your money over the counter and go home.

PI's and Vietnam with weak currencies are going after the Aussie market as well as new direct  destination sri Lanka. Throw cheap Bali into the mix and others and Thailand is in trouble.

never give AU banks the chance, they have craprates..... move AU to Thai holding account.. check charts and rates and exchange when it is up... costs AUD 23 and 22 THB this end...

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, Leaver said:

Vietnamese rated the 5th happiest people in the world.

 

http://happyplanetindex.org/countries/vietnam

Not when this lot from Pattaya arrive there they won't be. 

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Not when this lot from Pattaya arrive there they won't be. 

At 20,000 Vietnam Dong for a beer in a bar, which is about 26.5 baht, I'm sure they will be happy.  ????

[Leaver]

14 hours ago, Matzzon said:

No I not deny, but I consider that you will need much more than measly 800k baht to move to a foreign country and settle there

Sure, but one of the many golden rules of Thailand, and South East Asia in general, is pay as you go. 

 

I am not moving 21,000GBP into an unstable country, and lose access to 10,500GBP of it, which only earns around 1.5%, just so I can do my own retirement visa and extensions. 

 

14 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Therefore locking or not is irrelevant when having more money.

 

I disagree.  I will not let the Thai government lock up my money.  Simple as that. 

 

I will not be forced to inject 800k into the Thai banking system.  I will happily leave Thailand, with no complaints, if that becomes the only option to remain here.

 

14 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Settled then. It is not so har. Actually easier than before.

Yes, using agents makes it easier, and probably cheaper, when you consider my 21,000GBP is earning way more than 1.5% sitting in a Thai bank, and I keep control of it. 

 

It will be interesting if they allow them to continue to operate, not only this first year, but for next year. 

 

I have spoken to a lot of people who have used agents this year, and at this stage, there's been no problems. 

 

I admit I was lazy with the 65,000 baht method.  I easily meet this criteria, but after reading about it has to be a certain transfer code, you have to bring your bank book every 90 days, and all the other BS, I decided to either use an agent here, or go to Vietnam. If I decide to stay, I will use an agent the first year, and start on the 65,000 baht method. 

 

I know the practice of using an agent for this purpose is illegal, so not too happy about it, but This Is Thailand. 

 

Vietnam does not have any of this money in the bank requirements.  Pay your money, here's your visa. It's a lot easier.  You do have to leave once a year, but that's no problem for me. 

 

 

[Ron jeremy]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Not when this lot from Pattaya arrive there they won't be. 

Stay the <deleted> away, I can actually sit on the beach promenade, and not beside some drunk or hooker. And stare out at a clean ocean, drinking a 50 cent beer. Don't turn this into soi buckow!????????

[Leaver]

13 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

Stay the <deleted> away, I can actually sit on the beach promenade, and not beside some drunk or hooker. And stare out at a clean ocean, drinking a 50 cent beer. Don't turn this into soi buckow!????????

Oh Oh, but with 50 cent beers it must be a 3rd World slum with no infrastructure.  Right?  ????????