Need Work Permit To Sell On Amazon ?

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

Does any one know if a work permit is needed if i sell on amazon by FBA (fulfilled by amazon)?

(Can be also sales of digital assets like photos, or sales on ebay, facebook, ext.)

it is allmost a passive income, because the goods are sitting in amazon warehouses in

europe / US, and they take care for the order, shipping ext.

Does the thai law reuires opening a company for such an internet business , and get

thai partners, emplyees ext. (for the work permit), or are there any

new regulations, considering the global nature of the digital economy?

Edited July 25, 2019 by metisdead
Unnecessary usage of ALL CAPS removed from topic title.

[NCC1701A]

 

5 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

Does the thai law

how will they know?

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

10 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

 

how will they know?

the bank will tell them.

that is, if you do deposit substantial amounts in any bank , in or

out of thailand.

[NCC1701A]

Just now, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

or out of thailand. 

out of Thailand? I don't see how that is possible.

and don't use a Thai bank to receive funds. 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

the bank will tell them.

Who will they tell?

Banks only deduct taxes for interest earned on saving accounts and send it to the revenue department.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

first, these days, banks in all major financial centres, singapore hongkong, sweatzerland and of course

all the EU / US countries, require their customers to declare in which

country they pay taxes, in case they are not residents of the bank's country.

 

second, many e-commerce web sites, especially U.S. based, require you to delare

in which country you are a tax resident, and will deduct the taxes on your earnings

according to the tax treaty U.S. has with of that country.

 

for example, in a web site where i sell stuff, passively, they will deduct only 5% for thai resident,

but will take 30% of earning from residents of countries with no tax treaty with the U.S.

and than there are the work permit laws in thailand, so i just wonder

if there are any changes in those laws in case of "digital" earning.

 

for example, if i stay in thailand on retirement extention visa, but still have my income

from web sites located outside of thailand, will the immigration consider it a work

that requires work permit ?? or just pay the tax?

[darrendsd]

19 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

first, these days, banks in all major financial centres, singapore hongkong, sweatzerland and of course

all the EU / US countries, require their customers to declare in which

country they pay taxes, in case they are not residents of the bank's country.

Thailand has signed up for this but is not expected to start sharing tax info with other countries for another 3-4 years

 

21 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

second, many e-commerce web sites, especially U.S. based, require you to delare

in which country you are a tax resident, and will deduct the taxes on your earnings

according to the tax treaty U.S. has with of that country.

I've never heard of this happening however I know from experience that ebay UK dont deduct any tax - the USA may be different but as far as I am aware it is the responsibility of the seller to pay taxes not for websites to collect them

 

The Bank won't tell Immigration that you have the money coming in - I expect it will be coming in from a different country? How will they know it's from working? The only way the may suspect is if the money comes direct from Paypal

 

You work at home - unless you don't go around telling everyone you are working you are fine from a WP point of view

 

 

[Matzzon]

Out of the information you give, that are mostly misleading or dead wrong, I can only assume that you want to follow the law to the last little dot in the book.
 

If that is the case, what you are asking about is not allowed according to the Thai law.

To go by the book, you would need to register a company, and have a work permit and also pay taxes in Thailand regarding the company and your income if you stay in Thailand over 180 days a year. To get the work permit you would also need to have thai citizens employed. Normally 3 for each foreigner working or get away with 2 if you are married and your wife work in the same company.

However, There are still many people working with drop shipping, which is what you are talking about, living in Thailand without any registered company here.

[arithai12]

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

first, these days, banks in all major financial centres, singapore hongkong, sweatzerland and of course

all the EU / US countries, require their customers to declare in which

country they pay taxes, in case they are not residents of the bank's country.

 

second, many e-commerce web sites, especially U.S. based, require you to delare

in which country you are a tax resident, and will deduct the taxes on your earnings

according to the tax treaty U.S. has with of that country.

 

for example, in a web site where i sell stuff, passively, they will deduct only 5% for thai resident,

but will take 30% of earning from residents of countries with no tax treaty with the U.S.

and than there are the work permit laws in thailand, so i just wonder

if there are any changes in those laws in case of "digital" earning.

 

for example, if i stay in thailand on retirement extention visa, but still have my income

from web sites located outside of thailand, will the immigration consider it a work

that requires work permit ?? or just pay the tax?

For such queries, better go and talk to an agent specializing in work permits/tax for foreigners, first interview might even be free. Whatever we say on the forum is not something you can claim to your defense later.

 

IMHO you don't need a WP - not to mention how to get it. There was a thread some time ago quoting an interview with a top Thai officer, showing much leniency for such cases - sorry I don't remember more.

Indeed, as your "work" is online, who is going to know about it. Assuming you do it from home, and best using a VPN. Similar to what many do e.g. concerning stock market investments.

 

As for tax however, if you don't pay tax in your home country already, you may want to consider the option of paying in Thailand at least for the amounts you transfer here to support your living. It's not expensive at all, and will put your mind at rest.
 

ps: I hope it's not dentures that you are selling on Amazon.

[jackdd]

The main question here is: Where is your registered business?

If you have a registered business / company in a country outside Thailand and just do work for this business while in Thailand in your condo / house (and don't buy or sell products within Thailand), then currently the authorities don't consider this as working in Thailand, so you don't need a non-b visa / work permit.

[NCC1701A]

you know what i did? i stopped working so now i don't pay any taxes. its cool.

[bigginhill]

Basically you want to be registered here so to pay 5% instead of 30% tax, but if you register you may be "working". 

What would the registering be? At thai tax office, at Amazon?

Does Amazon have to send you the money to the country you are registered at?

Think you need expert advice

[Dnyy]

It's not much different from other digital nomads and technically requires a WP. If you did not open an Amazon US account yet, make sure that you provide details from an address where you can provide a utility bill in your name otherwise you run into account verification issues. Also, Amazon US does not transfer to Thai bank accounts but you have to use Hyperwallet.

[dcnx]

8 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

the bank will tell them.

that is, if you do deposit substantial amounts in any bank , in or

out of thailand.

They don’t.

 

The banks don’t give anything to immigration. Yet. 

[NightSky]

WP

 

All work requires a work permit however some people don't get one and keep it under the radar if they only have passive international income streams as they believe that it might not be classed as work if found out and they are not taking jobs or business away from locals.

 

Taxes

 

If you sell on Amazon in the United States then legally you should pay sales taxes on those sales in the USA since your inventory has a physical nexus in the US. Its complex but visit a site like taxjar.

 

 

As for corporate taxes or personal taxes on profits, these taxes are due where either your company or you are personally resident ????

 

To get around that pay yourself to an offshore bank and save the money there for 12 months before repatriating it into Thailand. However legally you should pay taxes somewhere and actually an offshore account isnt as easy to secure these days due to FACTA and CRS.

 

In my opinion Its best to bite the bullet and pay some tax somewhere and sleep well at night ????

 

[CNXexpat]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 11:19 AM, NCC1701A said:

 

how will they know?

Jealous neighbour who knows, jealous "friends", post office worker, ex distributor...

[sunnyboy2018]

On 7/25/2019 at 5:30 AM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

the bank will tell them.

that is, if you do deposit substantial amounts in any bank , in or

out of thailand.

Link payments to your Non Thai bank

[sunnyboy2018]

On 7/25/2019 at 6:25 AM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

first, these days, banks in all major financial centres, singapore hongkong, sweatzerland and of course

all the EU / US countries, require their customers to declare in which

country they pay taxes, in case they are not residents of the bank's country.

 

second, many e-commerce web sites, especially U.S. based, require you to delare

in which country you are a tax resident, and will deduct the taxes on your earnings

according to the tax treaty U.S. has with of that country.

 

for example, in a web site where i sell stuff, passively, they will deduct only 5% for thai resident,

but will take 30% of earning from residents of countries with no tax treaty with the U.S.

and than there are the work permit laws in thailand, so i just wonder

if there are any changes in those laws in case of "digital" earning.

 

for example, if i stay in thailand on retirement extention visa, but still have my income

from web sites located outside of thailand, will the immigration consider it a work

that requires work permit ?? or just pay the tax?

Are you actually resident in Thailand and if so by what legal definition.  I live in Thailand but am resident in the UK according to the IR.

[NightSky]

it’s a controversial subject with no clear answer, thailand labour rules donot accomidate new circumstances.

 

if you are not doing anything except answering a few emails each day then I wouldn’t bother setting up a company and hiring Thais to get a wp for that.

 

if however you are sourcing products, packing and shipping/ receiving large deliveries regularly then that is more involved and more likely to attract attention as ‘work’

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by NightSky

[TheThai]

If you have the money from sales direct deposited into a U.S. bank, file taxes in the U.S.,  You can still claim residency in the U.S. while living in Thailand.  They have agencies in states with no state taxes, such as Nevada, Florida, and Texas which provide an address to claim residency and will forward your mail to you, just to assist with avoiding state taxes.  You use their address for your bank account.  There is nothing to tie you to Thailand.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by TheThai

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

11 hours ago, NightSky said:

WP

 

All work requires a work permit however some people don't get one and keep it under the radar if they only have passive international income streams as they believe that it might not be classed as work if found out and they are not taking jobs or business away from locals.

 

Taxes

 

If you sell on Amazon in the United States then legally you should pay sales taxes on those sales in the USA since your inventory has a physical nexus in the US. Its complex but visit a site like taxjar.

 

 

As for corporate taxes or personal taxes on profits, these taxes are due where either your company or you are personally resident ????

 

To get around that pay yourself to an offshore bank and save the money there for 12 months before repatriating it into Thailand. However legally you should pay taxes somewhere and actually an offshore account isnt as easy to secure these days due to FACTA and CRS.

 

In my opinion Its best to bite the bullet and pay some tax somewhere and sleep well at night ????

 

I DON'T try to evade paying taxes.

taxes are not the problem.

the problem in thailand is the work permit.

it is hard to obtain (if you don't want to open a corporation and hire

3 thai workers - or just pay them salary...just to get work permit...??!),

so i was wondering if there is any way around the work permit,

if i sell stuff online, even in thailand, on a retirement visa extention.

 

for example, LAZADA.CO.TH invite selelrs in english and gives

the options to sell as individual or a corporation.

so i was wondering, maybe they know something which i don't know,

maybe there are new rules around selling online, and WP is not required

to some semi-passive sales...

https://pages.lazada.co.th/wow/i/th/sell-on-lazada/sell?spm=a2o4m.home.header.d2.6a30719cODXoeI&hybrid=1

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

11 minutes ago, TheThai said:

If you have the money from sales direct deposited into a U.S. bank, file taxes in the U.S.,  You can still claim residency in the U.S. while living in Thailand.  They have agencies in states with no state taxes, such as Nevada, Florida, and Texas which provide an address to claim residency and will forward your mail to you, just to assist with avoiding state taxes.  You use their address for your bank account.  There is nothing to tie you to Thailand.

 

interesting, but i am not a U.S. person, and anyway the problem is not taxes

but work permit.

my main question is if i can do some online sales white in thailand without WORK PERMIT,

will it be considered illegal by IO?

I know i can do it off the radar, but i wonder what the law says, because some

web sites, even in thailand, offer sales on line for foreigners even as individuals (not

corporations).

 

https://pages.lazada.co.th/wow/i/th/sell-on-lazada/sell?spm=a2o4m.home.header.d2.6a30719cODXoeI&hybrid=1

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

10 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Link payments to your Non Thai bank

i acctually plan to become a thai tax resident, becuase the tax

laws in thailand are less cruel than in many other countries.

 

but the main issue is the WP

[TheThai]

2 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

interesting, but i am not a U.S. person, and anyway the problem is not taxes

but work permit.

my main question is if i can do some online sales white in thailand without WORK PERMIT,

will it be considered illegal by IO?

I know i can do it off the radar, but i wonder what the law says, because some

web sites, even in thailand, offer sales on line for foreigners even as individuals (not

corporations).

 

https://pages.lazada.co.th/wow/i/th/sell-on-lazada/sell?spm=a2o4m.home.header.d2.6a30719cODXoeI&hybrid=1

Yes I saw that on Lazada myself.  I can only speculate, but my guess would be you would need a work permit based on the fact you would definitely be based in Thailand, working in Thailand, banking in Thailand, and therefore paying taxes to Thailand.

Maybe Lazada provides information/Assistance with getting a WP for those interested in selling their products.  Maybe you should inquire with them.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

On 7/25/2019 at 7:40 PM, dcnx said:

They don’t.

 

The banks don’t give anything to immigration. Yet. 

THE banks do tell immigration.

i was wasked few times by banks here if i have work permit.

acctually, many banks will not even open an account without work permit.

and ALL banks will not give credit card without work permit.

it is not systematic, but if immigration ask the bank, here in thailand,

sure they will give all info.

[watcharacters]

On 7/25/2019 at 12:25 PM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

second, many e-commerce web sites, especially U.S. based, require you to delare

in which country you are a tax resident, and will deduct the taxes on your earnings

according to the tax treaty U.S. has with of that country.

 

Are you a tax resident of Thailand?

 

[Gumballl]

27 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i acctually plan to become a thai tax resident, becuase the tax

laws in thailand are less cruel than in many other countries.

 

but the main issue is the WP

You would also need to convert your type of visa. In other words, you would no longer be able to claim that you are retired (if you are working).

Edited July 28, 2019 by Gumballl

[ChipButty]

I would think you would have to be moving a lot of stuff to make it profitable when you take into account the cost of changing your visa, work permit, Thai staff, insurance for the staff, 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

On 7/28/2019 at 3:59 PM, ChipButty said:

I would think you would have to be moving a lot of stuff to make it profitable when you take into account the cost of changing your visa, work permit, Thai staff, insurance for the staff, 

TRUE. it is acctualy expensive for a foreigner to obtain a work permit

as self employed. just opening the company is around 2000 USD,

excluding annual maintanance, and than the need to employ 3 thai workers,

or paying for someone to show it (some law offices do it).

that is why i was wondering if there are any different regulations

in case of web based business, which does not require workers

but can pay handsomely in taxes.