American man one of three foreigners honored on Thai Language Day

[Orton Rd]

50 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

A nice positive article.  Pity the curmudgeonly comments didn't match its tone. 

Not really the poor bugger who has been here since childhood and done so much for the language- but still no nationality so he will be in the 90 day reporting and TM30 queue just like the rest of us. These are the novelty falang awards.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Orton Rd

[atyclb]

7 hours ago, Jane Dough said:

I think your mate's wife is either humoring you or fed up with the badgering. 

 

The words for dog and horse may utilize the same consonant and vowel sound but are completely different and if they were mispronounced by a Thai in a sentence anyone would spot it. The fact that foreigners might do that and the context would make it clear does not prove your point that Thais talking to Thais might rely on context.

 

It's a bit like not making a song and dance if someone said to you "I'd like Fried Lice". Of course the meaning would be clear but every native speaker would hear the mistake - it would be up to them if they corrected it or made anything of it. 

 

I would agree with you that foreigners incorrectly pronouncing tones can get by to a degree with context, however. Though for my own part I always thought that it would be best if I learnt to concentrate on the tones and pronounce Thai accurately. It has served me very well. 

 

BTW if you are wondering about my credentials to comment on this matter I can tell you that I was a Thai teacher in Thailand for 20 years. Udom in Phrae is personally known to me and he contacted me on messenger to say he had won the award and gave me a link to the Thai media about it. I wrote the OP.

 

It is true that he has been here since childhood and would therefore pronounce Thai as a native. His skill and perhaps the reason for the award is that he utilizes local dialect in a clever and humorous way to such a degree that he has tens of thousands of followers. He is not your average run of the mill speaker of Thai, but he isn't Thai he is American. 

 

I'm envious of his award and also think the others who got it are very deserving in different ways. The vitriol of some people on this thread smacks of individuals frustrated by the fact they are useless in the Thai language. They have learned to dismiss people who do learn Thai in order to disguise their inadequacies.

 

Learning spoken Thai - and reading and writing too - is absolutely fundamental to a happy life in Thailand. If you say you are happier without it then I would say - you'd be even happier with it.

 

This aspect of living in Thailand forms part of my weekly column that will appear on Sunday, should you be interested.

 

Rooster

 

 

100% correct about tones for dog and horse and very clearly written differently also.

 

basically most thais just are astounded by a caucasian speaking their language because their education and culture do not teach that the human brain capability is limitless.  there are tons of clever asian american immigrants that speak english great and can also understand regional accents and make witty jokes-phrases but they are not celebrated.

 

the guy in question is american only because place of birth and passport but his upbringing and education is in thailand albeit influence from family. if he gets a thai passport and gives up usa passport will he still be american?

[Andrew Dwyer]

Whats the reason for learning the thai alphabet if you're not going to write thai. Are you saying it helped you with speaking skills at the end of the 40 hours? 
 
I want to learn the language but dont know where to start to be honest

Try downloading an app called Pocket Thai Master, the 1st 5 lessons are free and then if you like it you pay £9.99 for another 32 lessons.

The format is excellent IMHO and as it is on your phone you access it easily and can review each lesson as much as you like before committing to pay for the rest .

You might get funny looks as you are reciting the tone practice lesson on a bench outside Big C , well i did anyway !! [emoji51]

[rvaviator]

Try downloading an app called Pocket Thai Master, the 1st 5 lessons are free and then if you like it you pay £9.99 for another 32 lessons.

The format is excellent IMHO and as it is on your phone you access it easily and can review each lesson as much as you like before committing to pay for the rest .

You might get funny looks as you are reciting the tone practice lesson on a bench outside Big C , well i did anyway !! [emoji51]

Its4thai is also good - use it on my phone - focusing on the Thai script


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[atyclb]

i used this free android app. can learn every consonant and vowel.  has built in tests.  also used software that did the same thing on a desktop computer. pantip plaza sells cd's.  app was product of an aussie university thai language department. cant remember name. initially seems very difficult but with daily study it gets easier. 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by atyclb

[bristolgeoff]

A few yrs ago I met a sth African woman who was born in Thailand,her parents or father something to do with DEA.she got a thai passport /citizenship.a mth later the law was changed for foreigners born in Thailand and it stopped.she was entitled to 3 passports I believe.if he was trying for citizenship like winning the lottery in Thailand.

    The sth African lady was very lucky and i don,t think they are many like her.my other friend got one thru his father who is thai.he has not used it fully but it makes his life easy for staying and buying property in the future.he speaks thai,the sth African lady knows she is lucky and what it can do with work or property as well.just comes down to the parents sometimes

[atyclb]

On 7/27/2019 at 12:05 PM, davidst01 said:

Whats the reason for learning the thai alphabet if you're not going to write thai. Are you saying it helped you with speaking skills at the end of the 40 hours? 

 

I want to learn the language but dont know where to start to be honest

 

learning the consonants, vowels, and tone marks and pronouncing them correctly is fundamental. it also is a great help learning new words because you see it's structure.  thai transcribed to karaoke like english is phonetically 98% incorrect.

[Just Weird]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 12:43 PM, Sticky Wicket said:

You seem to be confused by virtually every post. I suggest maybe some comprehension lessons, I think they have them on youtube 

That's because there are so many posts here that do not make a lot of sense to the rational and literate.

[Briggsy]

21 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Is there an award for the longest attempt to learn Thai but still an abysmal failure? tried since 1994 yet cannot speak, read or write it, happily it is totally useless outside of the country anyway. I even have trouble getting the girls at Big C to understand our member number, so I printed it out and stuck it on the back of my phone. I wish i could speak it, but it's a hopeless dream now.

Refreshingly honest of you to share your failure. Believe me, many have failed.

 

There are four very common errors which lead to this.

1. First language and accent interference. Let's say you are from Salford and have a marked Salford accent which you cannot "turn off". You may be speaking Thai in a Salford accent. Results is the Thais cannot understand you. 

 

2. You didn't learn methodically in the beginning. You picked up random phrases in the bars and off other farangs. The result is inappropriate use of words and syntax with many omissions and gaps in vocabulary. Result is the Thais may recognise the odd word but don't get what you are on about.

 

3. Pronouncing based on Roman spelling. Doomed to failure. I have a friend who learnt a considerable vocabulary but was totally unable to communicate. He wanted a glass. "Kaew" he shouted reportedly at the store owner to no avail. His pronunciation sounded nothing like the Thai pronunciation. Result is the Thais cannot understand you.

 

4. Fossilised errors. If you have been making an error for a while, say more than 3 months, and not corrected it, the odds are you will be stuck with this error for ever. This is why it is important to keep trying to get it right when you first learn it. Result is you are screwed.

 

Do any of these apply to you?

[Fred white]

19 hours ago, atyclb said:

i used this free android app. can learn every consonant and vowel.  has built in tests.  also used software that did the same thing on a desktop computer. pantip plaza sells cd's.  app was product of an aussie university thai language department. cant remember name. initially seems very difficult but with daily study it gets easier. 

 

 

Can you give the name of the app or maybe a link thanks

[Orton Rd]

44 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Refreshingly honest of you to share your failure. Believe me, many have failed.

 

There are four very common errors which lead to this.

1. First language and accent interference. Let's say you are from Salford and have a marked Salford accent which you cannot "turn off". You may be speaking Thai in a Salford accent. Results is the Thais cannot understand you. 

 

2. You didn't learn methodically in the beginning. You picked up random phrases in the bars and off other farangs. The result is inappropriate use of words and syntax with many omissions and gaps in vocabulary. Result is the Thais may recognise the odd word but don't get what you are on about.

 

3. Pronouncing based on Roman spelling. Doomed to failure. I have a friend who learnt a considerable vocabulary but was totally unable to communicate. He wanted a glass. "Kaew" he shouted reportedly at the store owner to no avail. His pronunciation sounded nothing like the Thai pronunciation. Result is the Thais cannot understand you.

 

4. Fossilised errors. If you have been making an error for a while, say more than 3 months, and not corrected it, the odds are you will be stuck with this error for ever. This is why it is important to keep trying to get it right when you first learn it. Result is you are screwed.

 

Do any of these apply to you?

Two may do but I don't go with the no Roman spelling. Mrs is a Thai language teacher for over 20 years, she uses that method with good results, apart from me of course. She has had learners speaking, reading and writing to a fairly high standard but always starts off with romanised words. My problems are memory and not being able to identify tones-at all.

[KhaoYai]

22 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

100% correct about tones for dog and horse and very clearly written differently also.

I am fully aware that it is written differently - and if pronounced correctly, spoken differently too. My point is that in general conversation, Thai's rarely differentiate between tones and use context instead.  My mate's wife is not the only one who agrees with that - we actually recorded about 15 minutes of conversation between friends (Thai and foreign) in restaurant one evening. I then brought up the subject and to a man, all the Thai's swore they used the tones. They changed their mind when the recording was played - in it, you could clearly hear 'wrong' tones. The only time when they clearly used the tones was when they were talking to a foreigner.

 

Come on guys - we are talking about people who mostly say mai loo when the actual word starts with an R - mai roo.

 

In general I find Thai's insistence on correct tones to be confusing - they actually manufacture words such as Yipoon and Campoocha because they supposedly cannot get their tongue's around the correct pronunciation. Yet years ago I sat in a travel agents office trying to get information on travelling to Koh Chang - which I was wrongly pronouncing as Koe Chang as is common for foreigners. I'd have thought travel agents staff might 'get' what I was asking about but they didn't - 3 of them just chatted away muttering my words Koe Chang over and over again in a questioning manner. I then pointed to the island on a map..................."ahhh Koh Chaeng" and all was OK again.

 

This is not a criticism, its an observation but I would compare it to comprehension in the UK. I live in a tourist area in the UK and I'm often asked for directions by either foreigners or non locals. Quite often they will pronounce a town or place name very wrongly but it doesn't take a degree in dialects to know what they mean. With Thai's on the other hand, if you are just slightly off, they don't understand you at all. However, as per my original point - try listening to their general conversations together (not to you) - rarely are the tones used, context is.

Edited July 28, 2019 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

On 7/27/2019 at 6:05 AM, davidst01 said:

Whats the reason for learning the thai alphabet if you're not going to write thai.

A friend has lived in Thailand for over 20 years, speaks and writes Thai fluently. He has advised me that although the actual writing may look complicated and daunting, if I learn it, I will learn to speak Thai more easily.

[atyclb]

25 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

23 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

100% correct about tones for dog and horse and very clearly written differently also.

I am fully aware that it is written differently - and if pronounced correctly, spoken differently too. My point is that in general conversation, Thai's rarely differentiate between tones and use context instead.  My mate's wife is not the only one who agrees with that - we actually recorded about 15 minutes of conversation between friends (Thai and foreign) in restaurant one evening. I then brought up the subject and to a man, all the Thai's swore they used the tones. They changed their mind when the recording was played - in it, you could clearly hear 'wrong' tones. The only time when they clearly used the tones was when they were talking to a foreigner.

 

Come on guys - we are talking about people who mostly say mai loo when the actual word starts with an R - mai roo.

 

In general I find Thai's insistence on correct tones to be confusing - they actually manufacture words such as Yipoon and Campoocha because they supposedly cannot get their tongue's around the correct pronunciation. Yet years ago I sat in a travel agents office trying to get information on travelling to Koh Chang - which I was wrongly pronouncing as Koe Chang as is common for foreigners. I'd have thought travel agents staff might 'get' what I was asking about but they didn't - 3 of them just chatted away muttering my words Koe Chang over and over again in a questioning manner. I then pointed to the island on a map..................."ahhh Koh Chaeng" and all was OK again.

 

This is not a criticism, its an observation but I would compare it to comprehension in the UK. I live in a tourist area in the UK and I'm often asked for directions by either foreigners or non locals. Quite often they will pronounce a town or place name very wrongly but it doesn't take a degree in dialects to know what they mean. With Thai's on the other hand, if you are just slightly off, they don't understand you at all. However, as per my original point - try listening to their general conversations together (not to you) - rarely are the tones used, context is.

 

 

yes, many butcher the language and take the lazy route of speaking.  i liken it to Caribbean spanish vs well spoken colombian spanish though many colombians on their caribe coast speak poorly also.

Edited July 28, 2019 by atyclb

[atyclb]

2 hours ago, Fred white said:

22 hours ago, atyclb said:

i used this free android app. can learn every consonant and vowel.  has built in tests.  also used software that did the same thing on a desktop computer. pantip plaza sells cd's.  app was product of an aussie university thai language department. cant remember name. initially seems very difficult but with daily study it gets easier. 

 

 

Can you give the name of the app or maybe a link thanks

 

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.foonugget.thaiscript&hl=en

[Fred white]

6 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.foonugget.thaiscript&hl=en

Thanks

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, Briggsy said:

On 7/27/2019 at 7:28 PM, Orton Rd said:

Is there an award for the longest attempt to learn Thai but still an abysmal failure? tried since 1994 yet cannot speak, read or write it, happily it is totally useless outside of the country anyway. I even have trouble getting the girls at Big C to understand our member number, so I printed it out and stuck it on the back of my phone. I wish i could speak it, but it's a hopeless dream now.

Refreshingly honest of you to share your failure. Believe me, many have failed.

 

There are four very common errors which lead to this.

1. First language and accent interference. Let's say you are from Salford and have a marked Salford accent which you cannot "turn off". You may be speaking Thai in a Salford accent. Results is the Thais cannot understand you. 

 

2. You didn't learn methodically in the beginning. You picked up random phrases in the bars and off other farangs. The result is inappropriate use of words and syntax with many omissions and gaps in vocabulary. Result is the Thais may recognise the odd word but don't get what you are on about.

 

3. Pronouncing based on Roman spelling. Doomed to failure. I have a friend who learnt a considerable vocabulary but was totally unable to communicate. He wanted a glass. "Kaew" he shouted reportedly at the store owner to no avail. His pronunciation sounded nothing like the Thai pronunciation. Result is the Thais cannot understand you.

 

4. Fossilised errors. If you have been making an error for a while, say more than 3 months, and not corrected it, the odds are you will be stuck with this error for ever. This is why it is important to keep trying to get it right when you first learn it. Result is you are screwed.

 

Do any of these apply to you?

 

add;

 

# not applying oneself in a way that would lead to success

 

# too many hangovers getting in the way of learning

[atyclb]

another one i used was rosetta stone thai. it is interactive and has exams. go at your own pace.  definitely helpful but they stopped developing thai language so you are stuck as theres no higher levels. it is helpful after you have a grasp of the alphabet. what helped me a lot with the alphabet were childrens videos used by thai children to get first intro to language. lots of them and big c has as well as bookstores. akin to sesame street for thai

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by atyclb

[Orton Rd]

Tried Rosetta stone. linguaphone and that Becker woman's books as well as several others. One of the Mrs Students wrote quite a good one, tried that as well. Certainly not going to bother again at my age.

[atyclb]

5 hours ago, Fred white said:

Can you give the name of the app or maybe a link thanks

 

 

this is the other one i used that i could remember.  can find at pantip plaza

 

 

[djayz]

On 7/27/2019 at 8:14 AM, Assurancetourix said:

As a native french speaker I have never learnt english like that ...

Maybe it's a new way to write and/or speak ?

I always learned that after the preposition "to" there must be an infinitive

 

To learning ?

Is this correct english?

 

 

Maybe to learn ?

 

Correct me if I wrote an error.

My apologies for the delay in replying. 

 

Yes, the English is correct and no, it's not new. 

When it comes to + gerund

e.g. When it comes to Thai food, I really like "dtom ka gai".

When it comes to booking (gerund) a plane ticket, I always choose my flights based on ...

Hope this clears up the confusion.

Edited July 29, 2019 by djayz

[Galactus]

On 7/26/2019 at 4:55 PM, zydeco said:

Hmm. Three pretty dubious descriptions. Agriculturalist? Does that mean "farmer?" Got a work permit for that? 

and you must be a wanna be immigration officer to ask that?

are you jealous or something man?

 

good for Thai authorities to acknowledge some foreigners in Thailand doing good things.

Hoping to see a foreigner at 18:00 national anthem clip in TV too one day.

[Solinvictus]

Nice article!