UK PM Johnson tells EU: ditch backstop or face no-deal Brexit

[rooster59]

UK PM Johnson tells EU: ditch backstop or face no-deal Brexit

By William James

 

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson speaks during his visit to the West Midlands Police Learning & Development Centre in Birmingham, Britain July 26, 2019. REUTERS/Toby Melville/Pool/Files

 

MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson cautioned the European Union on Saturday that the "anti-democratic" Irish backstop must be ditched if they were to strike a Brexit divorce deal.

 

Johnson, since taking office on Wednesday, has repeatedly said that if the EU continues to refuse to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement agreed by his predecessor Theresa May, then he will take Britain out on Oct. 31 without a deal.

 

His biggest demand is that the most hotly-contested element of the Brexit divorce agreement, the Irish border backstop, be struck out of the Withdrawal Agreement, a demand that has angered Ireland and perturbed other EU capitals.

 

"If we get rid of the backstop, whole and entire, then we are making a lot of progress," Johnson said, when asked if it was only the Irish border backstop that he wanted changed.

 

Speaking before a Stephenson's Rocket, a 19th century steam locomotive, in the northern England city of Manchester, Johnson dedicated most of his speech to improving public services, transport and the internet and driving up economic growth.

 

"Our post-industrial towns have a proud, great heritage but an even greater future. Their best years lie ahead of them," he said, announcing new long-term rail links and promising immediate improvements to bus services.

 

That message, aimed at what Johnson called "left behind" towns, is seen as the early stages of an election campaign, even though Britain is not due a parliamentary election until 2022 and Johnson is adamant he will not hold one before Brexit.

 

His Conservative Party does not have a majority in parliament, is divided over how to deliver Brexit and under threat of a no-confidence vote when parliament returns in September.

 

ANTI-DEMOCRATIC

 

European leaders are prepared to talk with Britain's new leader over Brexit but have so far insisted they will not reopen the Withdrawal Agreement. Many EU diplomats think the United Kingdom will hold a snap election soon.

 

Johnson, who discussed Brexit with U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday, brushed aside those concerns.

 

"My friends, I do not want a no-deal Brexit, that is not where we're aiming, but we have to face the fact that at the moment we're being told, as we have been told for the last three year 'rien ne va plus' - 'the deal is fixed' - and can't be changed. I doubt that," he said.

 

Nevertheless, investors fear a no-deal exit would send shock waves through global markets and hurt the world's economy.

 

Ireland is crucial to any Brexit solution.

 

The backstop is an insurance policy designed to prevent the return of border controls along the 500-km (300-mile) land border between Ireland and Britain's province of Northern Ireland that were ended by the 1998 Good Friday peace agreement.

 

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said the question of the unification of Ireland and Northern Ireland would inevitably arise if Britain leaves the EU without a divorce deal on Oct. 31.

 

"The approach of the UK government is not going to be disengaged or aloof or waiting for them to come to us: we are going to try to solve this problem and we are going to do it in a spirit of friendship and cooperation," Johnson said.

 

"But we can't do it as long as that anti-democratic backstop, that backstop that seeks to divide our country, divide the UK, remains in place," he said. "We need to get it out and then we can make progress, I think."

 

The Withdrawal Agreement that May struck in November with the EU says the United Kingdom will remain in a customs union "unless and until" alternative arrangements are found to avoid a hard border.

 

Many British lawmakers oppose the prospect of being bound to EU rules and customs duties that would prevent Britain doing its own trade deals and leave it overseen by EU judges.

 

(Reporting by William James, Editing by Guy Faulconbridge abd Janet Lawrence)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-07-28

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[fishtank]

It was the British who wanted the backstop in the first place.

Plonker Boris don't seem to understand this.

If he and his muppets had voted for the deal months ago UK would be out by now.

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, fishtank said:

It was the British who wanted the backstop in the first place.

Plonker Boris don't seem to understand this.

If he and his muppets had voted for the deal months ago UK would be out by now.

And the pound would have tanked even more no doubt

[geoffbezoz]

"Speaking before a Stephenson's Rocket, a 19th century steam locomotive, in the northern England city of Manchester "

 

How ironic that he was speaking there when him and his dinosaur Brexiteers are intent on trying to put the UK back to their glory days of the 19th Century.

 

Time moves on Mr Johnson and accept that the UK has had its day, its some other countries turn now to dominate.

[Chomper Higgot]

“His Conservative Party does not have a majority in parliament, is divided over how to deliver Brexit and under threat of a no-confidence vote when parliament returns in September.“

 

And from that alone we know Johnson is making promises he knows he can’t keep. - AKA telling his customary porkies.

 

Beware the lies you want to hear!

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“His Conservative Party does not have a majority in parliament, is divided over how to deliver Brexit and under threat of a no-confidence vote when parliament returns in September.“

 

And from that alone we know Johnson is making promises he knows he can’t keep. - AKA telling his customary porkies.

 

Beware the lies you want to hear!

 

 

You seem to have overlooked this possibility of the 41 Labour MPs backing Boris.... which would make you out to be a liar.... ????

 

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1158175/Brexit-news-BBC-Labour-Party-Jeremy-Corbyn-Boris-Johnson-Brexit-deal-Caroline-Flint

 

 

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You seem to have overlooked this possibility of the 41 Labour MPs backing Boris.... which would make you out to be a liar.... ????

 

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1158175/Brexit-news-BBC-Labour-Party-Jeremy-Corbyn-Boris-Johnson-Brexit-deal-Caroline-Flint

 

 

All hypothetical as there has not been a vote in parliament yet to determine how many, if any, would vote for Boris.  That is unless there has been a parliamentary fantasy vote in your eyes, fantasy being the operative word I think.  From other commentary on BBC and Sky over the last few days there appears to be an opinion amongst respected political reporters that in fact should there be a vote on these issues Boris will have less votes than what TM had due to his increasing unpopularity.

Edited July 28, 2019 by geoffbezoz

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You seem to have overlooked this possibility of the 41 Labour MPs backing Boris.... which would make you out to be a liar.... ????

 

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1158175/Brexit-news-BBC-Labour-Party-Jeremy-Corbyn-Boris-Johnson-Brexit-deal-Caroline-Flint

 

 

You seem to have overlooked the prospect of a no confidence vote and a General Election

[vogie]

When countries like Germany, France, Belgium and Holland suffer the most when we leave without a deal, it would be in their interest to listen, I would have thought.

BTW, I think "plonker" Boris understands a lot more than most remainers on here whose sole intention is to demonize him instead of debating the subject at hand.

Edited July 28, 2019 by vogie

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

When countries like Germany, France, Belgium and Holland suffer the most when we leave without a deal, it would be in their interest to listen, I would have thought.

BTW, I think "plonker" Boris understands a lot more than most remainers on here whose sole intention is to demonize him instead of debating the subject at hand.

The nation that would suffer the most under no deal is the UK.

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You seem to have overlooked the prospect of a no confidence vote and a General Election

 

 

I haven't overlooked it, Corbyn has overlooked it.

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

All hypothetical as there has not been a vote in parliament yet to determine how many, if any, would vote for Boris.  That is unless there has been a parliamentary fantasy vote in your eyes, fantasy being the operative word I think.  From other commentary on BBC and Sky over the last few days there appears to be an opinion amongst respected political reporters that in fact should there be a vote on these issues Boris will have less votes than what TM had due to his increasing unpopularity.

 

 

It is all hypothetical because there will only be a vote on a deal if Boris presents a new deal...... otherwise Article 50 and 31st October.

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

It is all hypothetical because there will only be a vote on a deal if Boris presents a new deal...... otherwise Article 50 and 31st October.

Sorry, now you are in fantasy land. There will be no vote on a new deal as there will be no deal. Parliament will not allow leaving on the 31st to go through with no deal forcing Boris into an election ( well not actually as that is what he appears to be planning for anyway). So GE taking place will ensure parliament passes a vote requiring Boris to seek a further extension of time beyond the 31st

 

Sorry but that is the reality.

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The nation that would suffer the most under no deal is the UK.

So that makes it ok for other nations to suffer because they are suffering less than the UK, I'm sure there is some kind of logic in there somewhere, but for the life in me, I just don't see it.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

So that makes it ok for other nations to suffer because they are suffering less than the UK, I'm sure there is some kind of logic in there somewhere, but for the life in me, I just don't see it.

You don’t see the logic that someone doesn’t buy into an empty threat? 

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

Sorry, now you are in fantasy land. There will be no vote on a new deal as there will be no deal. Parliament will not allow leaving on the 31st to go through with no deal forcing Boris into an election ( well not actually as that is what he appears to be planning for anyway). So GE taking place will ensure parliament passes a vote requiring Boris to seek a further extension of time beyond the 31st

 

Sorry but that is the reality.

 

 

Time will tell..

 

 

Corbyn has shown he has no balls for a no confidence vote. Whilst the remoaners will attempt every trick in the book to being something into to prevent Article 50, my view is that they will fail.

 

That is much closer to reality.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

"Speaking before a Stephenson's Rocket, a 19th century steam locomotive, in the northern England city of Manchester "

 

How ironic that he was speaking there when him and his dinosaur Brexiteers are intent on trying to put the UK back to their glory days of the 19th Century.

 

Time moves on Mr Johnson and accept that the UK has had its day, its some other countries turn now to dominate.

Exactly, I saw the speech and he talked like his HS deal was pioneering progress, even had to prompt the audience, oblivious to the fact other countries have been operating HS networks for decades.

Every time I see Johnson speak he reminds me on one of the greatest orators in European history, there is a fine line between brilliance and insanity.

[sandyf]

"The Withdrawal Agreement that May struck in November with the EU says the United Kingdom will remain in a customs union "unless and until" alternative arrangements are found to avoid a hard border."

 

It is the intention of the UK to put an EU external border across the island of Ireland but the brexiteers do not like the idea of the EU having control of their own border. Who does that make sense to.

If the brexiteers idea of an open border is to be implemented between the north and south of Ireland, why shouldn't the same arrangement exist across all UK-EU borders. Wouldn't the EU be obliged to offer the same arrangement to all third countries on an EU external border.

Time for Johnson to face reality.

[AGareth2]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You seem to have overlooked the prospect of a no confidence vote and a General Election

MP's don't vote for Christmas

[twocatsmac]

58 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I haven't overlooked it, Corbyn has overlooked it.

Corbyn hasn’t overlooked it he’s terried of it. It’s the end for Jeremy if the result of a no confidence vote ends with an election.

Sadly for him he realises he could have seized power probably before the European elections but as usual lacked the gonads.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

When countries like Germany, France, Belgium and Holland suffer the most when we leave without a deal, it would be in their interest to listen, I would have thought.

BTW, I think "plonker" Boris understands a lot more than most remainers on here whose sole intention is to demonize him instead of debating the subject at hand.

it's a lose-lose situation, so face it as you voted for it, but don't expect Germans, French, the rest of the E.U to abide by your conditions since they did not vote.

It's no deal or no Brexit and of course, the rest of the E.U will suffer the consequencies much more than necessary, but as "Britain Trump" claimed, there are opportunities for the UK.

And don't forget to " Always blame the French" when it suits your agenda. 

  

  

Edited July 28, 2019 by Opl

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

MP's don't vote for Christmas

Generally, but the arithmetic would negate that statement.

Of the 650 MPs only 639 vote, the conservatives(your turkeys) have 312 MPs, well short of a majority, so the result would be unpredictable.

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, Opl said:

it's a lose-lose situation, so face it as you voted for it, but don't expect Germans, French, the rest of the E.U to abide by your conditions since they did not vote.

It's no deal or no Brexit and of course, the rest of the E.U will suffer the consequencies much more than necessary, but as "Britain Trump" claimed, there are opportunities for UK.

And don't forget .. " Always blame the French" when it suits your voters. 

  

  

Yes, it is a lose-lose situation, for the UK probably short term, I honestly believe that the EUs losses will be long term term though, but only time will tell.

If these losses have a negative impact on both sides most sides most people with half a brain would sit down and try to minimise the losses that each nation might incur, but no not the EU, their attitude (which dare I say is similar to yours) seems to be, let us inflict as much damage on the UK, even though we are going to hurt ourselves in the process too, cutting ones nose off to spite their face springs to mind.

Who is blaming the French, is that something that you have added to your post to give more bite, c'est la vie.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by vogie

[Opl]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes, it is a lose-lose situation, for the UK probably short term, I honestly believe that the EUs losses will be long term term though, but only time will tell.

If these losses have a negative impact on both sides most sides most people with half a brain would sit down and try to minimise the losses that each nation might incur, but no not the EU, their attitude (which dare I say is similar to yours) seems to be, let us inflict as much damage on the UK, even though we are going to hurt ourselves in the process too, cutting ones nose off to spite their face springs to mind.

Who is blaming the French, is that something that you have added to your post to give more bite, c'est la vie.

 

It's a repeated assertion you made that the E.U wants to punish the UK for leaving . And that's what you suppose I agree with despite I said everyone will suffer from the conséquences more than necessary. First because it ain't easy to try to remove an egg from an omelet and secondly because we - the rest- will pay the bill for the cake the U.K is having and eating. So the ones inflicting as much damage as possible on the other side is not the ones you mentioned, for instance, the UK can turn into fiscal paradise, it's your main Opportunity.

French bashing helps those who have no better trick to get support, rally voters, your "Britain Trump" called the French "turds", did'nt he ?      

Edited July 28, 2019 by Opl

[RickBradford]

1 hour ago, geoffbezoz said:

Parliament will not allow leaving on the 31st to go through with no deal

Note that the Leader of the House of Commons has stated publicly in the past few days that Parliament has already agreed to leaving, by invoking Article 50 and passing the Withdrawal Act.

 

That is, the legal default is to leave on Oct. 31, with or without a deal.

 

The only ways to prevent that, he said, are a new law (overturning the Withdrawal Act) or a new government (which may renegotiate with the EU).

[Pattaya46]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

If these losses have a negative impact on both sides most sides most people with half a brain would sit down and try to minimise the losses that each nation might incur, but no not the EU, their attitude (which dare I say is similar to yours) seems to be, let us inflict as much damage on the UK, even though we are going to hurt ourselves in the process too, cutting ones nose off to spite their face springs to mind.

It's not at all as I see things. EU clearly said many times that she doesn't want a no-deal exit, but what Boris is asking is a country (or group of) to accept to not have any control on a part of its frontier! It's just unacceptable.

As a hard border between the 2 Irelands is also inacceptable by all countries involved, the only solution found until now is this temporary backstop.

EU will agree to remove it... as soon as "alternative arrangements are found to avoid a hard border".

So what are these alternative arrangements that Boris propose? None...  (AFAIK).

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

Note that the Leader of the House of Commons has stated publicly in the past few days that Parliament has already agreed to leaving, by invoking Article 50 and passing the Withdrawal Act.

 

That is, the legal default is to leave on Oct. 31, with or without a deal.

 

The only ways to prevent that, he said, are a new law (overturning the Withdrawal Act) or a new government (which may renegotiate with the EU).

The leader of the house is Jacob Rees-Mogg  and it is the attorney general who provides legal government advice, not an extremist of the ERG clan

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Opl said:

It's a repeated assertion you made that the E.U wants to punish the UK for leaving . And that's what you suppose I agree with despite I said everyone will suffer from the conséquences more than necessary. First because it ain't easy to try to remove an egg from an omelet and secondly because we - the rest- will pay the bill for the cake the U.K is having and eating. So the ones inflicting as much damage on the other side is not the one you mentioned, for instance, the UK can turn into fiscal paradise, it's your main Opportunity.

French bashing helps those who have no better trick to get support, rally voters, your "Britain Trump" called the French "turds", did'nt he ?      

I think Boris was really having a go at Macron than the rest of France, one person saying something doesn't make the rest of the country think the same, Boris likes to get reactions and as you can see by this forum he has done quite well hasn't he.

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think Boris was really having a go at Macron than the rest of France, one person saying something doesn't make the rest of the country think the same, Boris likes to get reactions and as you can see by this forum he has done quite well hasn't he.

That's the same nonsense people write about Trump: it is about the reactions. No, it is not, it is calling people out when they talk nonsense. Only brainless supporters believe otherwise.

Edited July 28, 2019 by stevenl

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

So that makes it ok for other nations to suffer because they are suffering less than the UK, I'm sure there is some kind of logic in there somewhere, but for the life in me, I just don't see it.

Your are right. All suffer with this Brexit nonsense. There is no logic in it.

It gives only losers under the actors.

The winners of the European discord are the USA, China and Russia.