UK PM Johnson tells EU: ditch backstop or face no-deal Brexit

[AGareth2]

7 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I don’t. 

 

I can recall you mentioning no deal in two separate posts when responding to one post of mine. 

"no deal" is a reality not an assumption

you used the word "assume" not I

[Bluespunk]

Just now, AGareth2 said:

"no deal" is a reality not an assumption

you used the word "assume" not I

You assume a no deal will go through parliament. 

 

Not a good idea to make assumptions in politics...

[George Aylesham]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

So that makes it ok for other nations to suffer because they are suffering less than the UK, I'm sure there is some kind of logic in there somewhere, but for the life in me, I just don't see it.

And sadly the Republic of Ireland too . . . . .And they didn't even vote

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

You assume a no deal will go through parliament. 

 

Not a good idea to make assumptions in politics...

it does not need to

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

it does not need to

Again an assumption, however please direct me to the legalisation that states parliament cannot stop a no deal brexit 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Bluespunk

[Jip99]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Yes, Lord Kerr was the secretary-general of the European Convention 2002/3 when it was written.

 

The author of the Article 50 clause that allows Britain to leave the EU has called for the Brexit process to be halted, saying that the “disastrous consequences” are “becoming ever clearer”. John Kerr, the former diplomat, is one of dozens of prominent Scots to sign an open letter urging a pause and a rethink. “In a democracy, it is always possible to think again and to choose a different direction. We need to think again about Brexit, to have a UK-wide debate about calling a halt to the process and changing our minds,” says the letter, whose other signatories include the former defence secretary George Robertson, the software entrepreneur Ian Ritchie and the historian Tom Devine.

https://www.ft.com/content/4f0163d4-6b0a-11e7-bfeb-33fe0c5b7eaa

 

 

No bias there then.

 

He should have written a much a much better version of Artivle 50.

 

 

[AGareth2]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

Again an assumption 

no

the law

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

no

the law

Really?

 

Direct me to the legislation/codicil/rule/law that says there cannot be an extension, acceptable to the EU, set to exiting the EU in order to prevent a no deal brexit.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Bluespunk

[tudorc]

Incredible how the UK media are cheering   Boris Johnson from the roof tops,

 

Lets not forget that Boris Johnson and Vote Leave, with their misleading, and some of it illegal activities,got the UK into this Brexit mess.

 

It,s about time they start thinking of the country and not  their selfs and party interests.

 

The Brexit financial cost to the country is running at 600 million a week.

The Tories have nearly doubled the UK goverment debt from below 1 Trillion in 2010 when they took power,to nearly 1.9 Trillion today.

They  have divided the country with their Toxic Brexit.

 

Remind me,why did we vote for Brexit:

Take back control of Immigration:

Johnson wants to give an amensty to 500 million illegals in the UK,

 

NHS-let USA private health and pharmas take control as part of USA -UK Free trade deal

 

Take control of borders-no border control on the island of Ireland

 

Btitish migrants living in TL,USA or even Europe, who have pounds in their pockets,starting to really feel the efects of Brexit.

 

Sterling heading for 1.20$, below 38BHT and sub 1.10€

[MBFC1960]

I think "blond" haircolor is coming into fashion for angloamerican leaders, though when i saw name Boris i thought <deleted> Jelcin is back ????

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

It needs repeating because you don't listen. You'll only believe it when it happens, but that's okay.

There's not a lot to discuss with rabid remainers who are brexitally bigoted. None of you will accept that there is another point of view.

So far I have encountered the opposite: remainers accept there is another point of view, but that point of view doesn't make any economic or logical sense.  Brexiteers seem in general to have a very limited outlook on society and many of the reasons given are either not justified or have no bearing at all in reality. On top of that, I am convinced a very important, mostly not spoken out loud, reason is an unjustified blame of the EU for immigration problems the UK is experiencing according to some.

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Really?

 

Direct me to the legislation/codicil/rule/law that says there cannot be an extension, acceptable to the EU, set to exiting the EU in order to prevent a no deal brexit.

google is your friend

[Bluespunk]

Just now, AGareth2 said:

google is your friend

Brexitocracy rule 3: when you can’t answer a question or back up a claim, tell someone, by one method or another, to do their own research. 

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Brexitocracy rule 3: when you can’t answer a question or back up a claim, tell someone, by one method or another, to do their own research. 

are you not capable?

[RickBradford]

11 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Really?

 

Direct me to the legislation/codicil/rule/law that says there cannot be an extension, acceptable to the EU, set to exiting the EU in order to prevent a no deal brexit.

There can be an extension - but Johnson has ruled that out.

 

So there has to be a new government in place which might opt for an extension. Or there has to be a new law passed, which overturns the Act of Withdrawal.

 

Whether that is actually correct, I don't know. It is the publicly stated view of the Leader of the House of Commons.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

There can be an extension - but Johnson has ruled that out.

 

So there has to be a new government in place which might opt for an extension. Or there has to be a new law passed, which overturns the Act of Withdrawal.

 

Whether that is actually correct, I don't know. It is the publicly stated view of the Leader of the House of Commons.

"So there has to be a new government in place which might opt for an extension. Or there has to be a new law passed, which overturns the Act of Withdrawal."

Or BJ has to show why is called a weather vane.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

There can be an extension - but Johnson has ruled that out.

 

So there has to be a new government in place which might opt for an extension. Or there has to be a new law passed, which overturns the Act of Withdrawal.

 

Whether that is actually correct, I don't know. It is the publicly stated view of the Leader of the House of Commons.

Indeed, johnson has ruled that out. 

 

However it is still only an assumption he will get his way.

 

Which is the point I was making. 

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

He should have written a much a much better version of Artivle 50.

 

If I remember right he has made comments to that effect.

We can all be wise in hindsight, but foresight is another matter.

 

Does he think that if Brexit goes badly the ball might still come free at the back of the scrum, and he might touch down in No 10? 

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/john-kerr-brexit-is-about-foreign-policy-why-is-britain-being-so-silent-a3617336.html

[RickBradford]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Indeed, johnson has ruled that out. 

 

However it is still only an assumption he will get his way.

 

Which is the point I was making. 

Yes, it is only an assumption.

 

There may be a General Election, and Johnson may be ousted. Or, there may be a majority in Parliament to repeal the Withdrawal Act.

 

Those are the only 2 mechanisms, according to the Leader of the House of Commons, under which the UK will not leave the EU on Oct. 31.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, AGareth2 said:

not if we leave with "No Deal"

Every chance that "No Deal" = "No Border".

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Yes, it is only an assumption.

 

There may be a General Election, and Johnson may be ousted. Or, there may be a majority in Parliament to repeal the Withdrawal Act.

 

Those are the only 2 mechanisms, according to the Leader of the House of Commons, under which the UK will not leave the EU on Oct. 31.

Possibly you are correct.

 

However, I don’t necessarily trust the word of jrm, he is after all an arch brexiteer. 

 

I assume you are referring to mogg in your post. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Bluespunk

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Every chance that "No Deal" = "No Border".

The Republic will fold

[RickBradford]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Possibly you are correct.

 

However, I don’t necessarily trust the word of jrm, he is after all an arch brexiteer. 

 

I assume you are referring to mogg in your post. 

Yes, Rees-Mogg.

 

I think it's unlikely that he would state this publicly if he knew it to be untrue, or if he could be easily contradicted. He seems to be quite a precise and factual person.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Yes, Rees-Mogg.

 

I think it's unlikely that he would state this publicly if he knew it to be untrue, or if he could be easily contradicted. He seems to be quite a precise and factual person.

Then we disagree on the trustworthiness of mogg. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Bluespunk

[RickBradford]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Then we disagree on the trustworthiness of mogg. 

I'm not arguing his trustworthiness.

 

I'm arguing that he would be stupid to publicly say something untrue or easily contradicted. He doesn't come across as stupid.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

I'm not arguing his trustworthiness.

 

I'm arguing that he would be stupid to publicly say something untrue or easily contradicted. He doesn't come across as stupid.

I never said he was stupid, I think he is untrustworthy, mendacious and rather arrogant, but stupid, probably not. 

 

However, I still would not trust or believe anything he says as being the exact truth. 

 

And as I have said my point was about making assumptions on a no deal brexit, not mogg. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Bluespunk

[beautifulthailand99]

Farage's view on LBC just now is Boris is talking no-deal tough , will get some modest changes to the WA and some re-wording to satisfy the Brexiteers and get that through parliament.  And as Farage says it will still be the worst deal in history - just with a few tweaks. As BoJo said it would be a million to one for a no deal and he has voted for the WA before as has JRM.  So most probably Brino here we come !

Edited July 28, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[RickBradford]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

I never said he was stupid, I think he is untrustworthy, mendacious and rather arrogant, but stupid, probably not. 

 

However, I still would not trust or believe anything he says as being the exact truth. 

Also, I don't see what benefit it would do to him to lie about this, either for himself or for Brexit.

 

He must know that those who disagree with him politically are going to urgently seek legal advice about what he stated, and challenge him on it if they can. So far, that hasn't happened.

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, Jip99 said:

You seem to have overlooked this possibility of the 41 Labour MPs backing Boris.... which would make you out to be a liar.... ????https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1158175/Brexit-news-BBC-Labour-Party-Jeremy-Corbyn-Boris-Johnson-Brexit-deal-Caroline-Flint

And how many Tories will NOT support Boris in a case of NO DEAL ?

 

One thing for sure: it shows how much the English feel themselves bound to a treaty of 20 years ago, their Good Friday Agreement, and how important their European colonies ( NI + Scotland) are for them.

Eire will never accept a hard border nor an open 499 km border with approx. 270 public roads that cross the border , and for sure will veto such an agreement.

 

• The 'backstop' was a British proposal, not one tabled by Ireland or ...

  https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/the-backstop-was-a-british-proposal-not-one-tabled-by-ireland-or-the-eu-1.3761566
  18 Jan 2019 ... The 'backstop' was a British proposal, not one tabled by Ireland or the EU ... As the vast bulk of Irish trade flows are with Britain rather than with .... the UK. This idea that Tony Blair or some other shadowy figure schemed up the ...

• Brexit: What is the Irish border backstop? - BBC News

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404
  11 Jun 2019 ... The backstop is a position of last resort, to maintain a seamless border on the island of Ireland in the event that the UK leaves the EU without ...

Edited July 28, 2019 by puipuitom

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Also, I don't see what benefit it would do to him to lie about this, either for himself or for Brexit.

 

He must know that those who disagree with him politically are going to urgently seek legal advice about what he stated, and challenge him on it if they can. So far, that hasn't happened.

Already discussed this to ad nauseam, you trust him.

 

I don't.  

Edited July 28, 2019 by Bluespunk