Phuket Immigration Strikes Again

[y_us2]

Despite what everyone else is saying concerning the total required in the bank if you are married to a thai lady remaining the same on your yearly visa renewal,(Bt200,000) if you are already in the system, Phuket Immigration now says otherwise.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/firstweek/news.asp#2

Capt Krissarat was crystal-clear, however, on this point. “This applies not only to first-time applicants but also to renewals. People who previously had to show 200,000 baht in a bank account, however long they have been here, will have to increase the amount to 400,000 baht. “This will apply to all applications submitted on or after July 10.”

These guys in Phuket believe they can make their own laws I think.

So who is correct?

Guidance greatly appreciated from a long stander in thailand.

[astral]

I shall be applying in Sri Racha at the end of this week.

I will post a report once I have news here

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Despite what everyone else is saying concerning the total required in the bank if you are married to a thai lady remaining the same on your yearly visa renewal,(Bt200,000) if you are already in the system, Phuket Immigration now says otherwise.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/firstweek/news.asp#2

Capt Krissarat was crystal-clear, however, on this point. “This applies not only to first-time applicants but also to renewals. People who previously had to show 200,000 baht in a bank account, however long they have been here, will have to increase the amount to 400,000 baht. “This will apply to all applications submitted on or after July 10.”

These guys in Phuket believe they can make their own laws I think.

So who is correct?

Guidance greatly appreciated from a long stander in thailand.

And no combination of income and savings henceforth. It is one or the other according to Captain Krissarat.

[easymoney]

Phukett is not Bangkok and Bangkok says different. Over the years have watch Phukett Immigration office 180 out from Main office Bangkok.

[slim]

Yesterday (1st July) I was granted a one year extension to my non-immigrant O visa on the grounds "married to a thai" (as they stamp on their records).

They confirmed/required (in my case) 400,000b showing in my bank book with a guarantee letter from my bank. They weren’t waiting for the new legislation to come into effect and it was made clear to us (by one of the department heads who we asked to see) that this requirement applies to everybody. The Immigration officer laughed when I mentioned those grandfathered in the system already. We were told categorically this was not the case.

They also wanted documentary evidence of my permanent address and a copy of our marriage certificate.

They told me that showing 800,000b in the bank makes the whole procedure a formality and having Thai children also weighs heavily in your favour.

However, this process is only the first stage in being granted a visa extension. If they are satisfied with everything your passport will be stamped:-

APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF STAY IS UNDER

CONSIDERATION OF THE POLICE DEPT . APPLICANT

MUST CONTACT THE TEMPORARY PERMIT SECTION

IN PERSON ON date

On the date shown (about 6 weeks after interview) you will have to report back to Immigration, who would have had back a police report on where you are claiming to live.

Its vitally important that the police visit you at the address given at interview.

A couple next to us at interview had given a Bangkok address and then gone to Phuket for 6 weeks. The police had gone round on several occasions, the couple had never been there and the police had reported back "not at address shown".

Their visa application was rejected.

If the police report is favourable, you will then be granted the 12 month extension.

Another very important point. Do not leave the Kingdom in the period between interviews without notifying Immigration. The temporary stamp (above) invalidates your existing entry permit. If you leave the Kingdom you will need a new entry permit to gain entry to the Kingdom.

If you’ve never been to Immigration at Bangkok (Suan Phlu) it’s a bit confusing so here’s the format.

1. At window 1 you’ll find application form TM47

2. Fill it in and include all copies of documentary evidence*

* Don’t bother having photocopies printed before hand – the paper in the photocopiers at Immigration have Immigration Office stamped on – they prefer these.

3. Pass everything to window 2 (including 1900b fee)

4. Wait wait wait wait wait until called

5. You’ll be given back all your documents including a stamped receipt.

Take this to room 102 (straight on at main entrance past the photocopier and toilets on your left)

6. Take a number from the desks headed non-business !!!!!!!!

7. Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait until its your turn.

8. If everything’s in order and you give a good interview you should be ok.

Hope this helps

[rodcourt49]

Capt "K" mentions that the new applicant needs apply 1 month prior to expiration of present one year visa. Do Thai Immig then give 1 monthly extensions whilst the application is being processed. If this is the case, I was told by an official in CM that this process of getting a Marry Visa can take up to 4 months? Do they hopefully extend you 4 times or is there a limitation to the number of extensions one can get, and secondly does the applicant need to exit and re-enter or are they just "stamped" at the local Imm Office? Can anyone assist please?

[h5kaf]

I have applied for an extension on marriage grounds many times and the same system seems to apply at Phuket. Admittedly they are much less friendly now than in the past. Its as if they want to ask for as much paper as possible and search for reasons to exclude. But if you have the paper they want then it is straightforward. However Bangkok has to approve all applications and the Phuket officers stamp your passport with a 1 month extension. You have to report on the stated day recorded on this monthly extension (unless it is a weekend when you should report on the previous Friday). When you report they will stamp another month in youir passport and continue to do so until your 1 year extension comes back from Bangkok. 2 years ago it took 4 stamps before I got the big one. This is a minor inconvenience and once the main paperwork is done they will continue to stamp you in every month.

[Bangkok Barry]

I have a question. Currently, I 'import' money each month from the UK which puts me inside the new 400,000 annual cut-off. But in three or four years I will retire and will have only a minimal income available from there.

I will then live on the income of my wife, who I've presently been married to for 13 years. We have recently bought a house in the country, and she will by then be running a business on the internet selling - well, that's confidential because it has the potential to be a decent earner.

The point is, I will not then qualify for the one-year 'O' visa under the 400,000 rule. Where does that leave us?

[astral]

This really is getting to be a joke.

Now he says we cannot mix income and money in the bank - GREAT.

Perhaps he should go and read the current regulations before opening his big mouth, it has always been either Income or Money or a combination. If this is the way they are going to play it then married people will be leaving in droves.

[lopburi3]

The point is, I will not then qualify for the one-year 'O' visa under the 400,000 rule. Where does that leave us?

Hopefully at or close to age 50 and able to change to a long stay (retirement) visa? If not use what you have incoming and bank account at 400k and you may well be approved after explaining the situation.

[Mr_Pedantic]

England welcomed my Thai wife with open arms. She could stay as long as she liked. Could get a job. When she got pregnant she got free dental charges, free prescriptions, even a free eye test. She had no holdups in the English airports as she came and went. Didn't have to check in with immigration every 90 days, didn't have to leave the country every 90 days. Héll she could even buy her own house/land if she had the money.

Thai authorities just do not want long term 'visitors', they want the foreigners who come for 2-3 weeks spend all their money and go home. Very soon they will have their wicked way as they make it almost impossible for anyone to stay on a long term basis and these people will find other destinations like Vietnam and Cambodia that are like Thailand used to be.

[Martin]

In reply to rodcourt 49, Nong Khai keep giving one-month extensions until they are informed by BKK that the application for the longer extension has been approved. Presumably other offices would do the same.

In reply to Mr Pedantic, I feel that Thailand has welcomed me, as a foreigner husband, pretty well equally, though slightly differently, to England's welcome to his wife. And I find the differences (land ownership, no NHS, and employment permission) quite understandable in view of the different countries' histories and cultures. I see no machiavellian plot, or likelyhood, that suitable (stress, suitable) farang residents will be barred.

There is a useful look at the "Uncertainty........." (about whether men who are already in receipt of such a visa and can't meet the new financial requirements will be able to get an extension) on the webpage http://www.thaiimmigration.com/inv/index.php?showtopic=39

It does seem probable that nobody staying here for years is going to be thrown out just because they can't meet the new financial requirements.

The straws in the wind do seem to point towards a situation that BKK may well let an extension happen, even though there is a shortfall on the savings/income requirement if the applicant's record is good. (And I would guess that BKK may well expect a note on the file of papers that the local office sends to them, saying that the applicant seems to be an otherwise suitable resident).

I know that our Western upbringing has conditioned many of us into thinking that everything should be cut-and-dried, and clearly black-or-white and fixed-price. But this is the other side of the world where the concepts of rubber time, and bargaining about everything, are more part of the culture. (As they were in the West in the days before industrialisation, and the Quaker philosophy/culture of "Let your Ay be Ay, and your Nay be Nay"). So having to go by the straws in the wind is quite alien to us. But, I guess, we just have to work at it. Maybe it is not too big a price to pay for being able to live here comfortably on a small pension, rather than very frugally in the West. (But surely we can all afford one well-pressed, long-sleeve shirt, one pair of well-ironed trousers, and one pair of well-cleaned shoes. I really wince if I turn up at Immigration and see that the smartly-turned-out Police Officer is having to deal with a scruffy-looking individual in T-shirt, shorts and sandals. Good manners in Thailand includes matching our dress to the occasion.)

On the subject of reports of interviews of officials by reporters, it is best to remember that we only read what the reporter thinks was the reply to what the official thought was the question. And in this case we only read a translation of what the reporter thinks was the reply ........So we must accept that we may well hear differently-nuanced views.

[Foggy Bottom]

(Quoting)He concluded, “We are just doing our job, keeping the country safe from the bad foreigners. That’s why we have had to introduce this new requirement, to ward off problems created by such people.”

When will the government wake up to the fact that in the main it is ONLY the "bad" people who have enough spare cash from their "activities" to leave this amount on deposit at the derisory interest rates offered by Thai Banks.

"honest people" simply don't have that sort of money to ignore during retirement unless they cut all strings with home country and sell their house etc - which is a much stronger commitment to living in Thailand than shifting a few bags of narcotics or crates of guns to fund the visa deposit at the bank.

Why don't they just offer retirees a visa "to end of life" and have them give the 400,000 to the government?

(edit) But that said I still maintain that Immigration are just the messengers and enforcers of central government policy so there's no need to get riled at them. They are as "powerless" over the new rules as we are.

[john b good]

This business really pi**ses me of.

What is really going on in this country.

I mean some peon in Phuket making statements on a national subject.

If immigration has something to say it should come from Bangkok and not some <deleted> in the provinces wanting to get his name in print (it's well known that Thais adore publicity "they can then show the missus and the kids look see daddy is in print and everyone thinks he is a big man")

Thats why this country can't get it's <deleted> together, i.e. one guy says we are going to purchase Liverpool another says no were not, or Thaksin thinks it's OK to talk to the Muslims in the south and Big Jiew says no it's not Ok

There is no wonder they don't have many orchestras, they would all be playing different music.

There is no hope in the present century of Thailand becoming anything other than a 3rd world country. The only problem is the frustration and confusion they create along the way.

[KevinN]

The same rules for Bangkok, Nong Khai,Chiang Mai and any other office of immigration will never be the same, Because according to the minister of immigration, Each immigration district office is autonomus and each can make their own rules and how they enforce them. The posted rules by immigration are only guide lines.

So it apperas that each office can say and do as they please. But if you have met all the rules set down by the main immigration office,then at least you have a point to start.

I have been to the office to get a renewal and had what was listed in the rules, and so stated it,and the interviewing officer said "I know what it says,But here is what I say" and I had to do exactly that.

[ThaiPauly]

England welcomed my Thai wife with open arms. She could stay as long as she liked. Could get a job. When she got pregnant she got free dental charges, free prescriptions, even a free eye test. She had no holdups in the English airports as she came and went. Didn't have to check in with immigration every 90 days, didn't have to leave the country every 90 days. Héll she could even buy her own house/land if she had the money.

Thai authorities just do not want long term 'visitors', they want the foreigners who come for 2-3 weeks spend all their money and go home. Very soon they will have their wicked way as they make it almost impossible for anyone to stay on a long term basis and these people will find other destinations like Vietnam and Cambodia that are like Thailand used to be.

Whilst I am pleased for you in this respect and maybee one day I could benefit from such a situation. but only if I had NO CHOICE! My personal opinion is that this is the WHOLE PROBLEM with the UK, ENGLAND WELCOMES EVERYBODY WITH OPEN ARMS anyone seems to be able to get in and thats one of the reasons I got out, there are so many scroungers and malingerers coming in from abroad that in some areas it really is "Spot the white man" or Christian or Catholic as the case may be, I am not a racist by any means but England has gone to the dogs,Iand I am fed up paying such high taxes to support these people. I certainly would not want to live there anymore, its worth all this f####g immigration hassle just to live in LOS.

[wjta]

Do you think the same rules apply to retirement visas? I just got mine and I'm on my way to Phuket end of June. I'm concerned about the residency requirement as my stated place of residence might change.

As I understand it, immigration isn't saying you have to keep money in the bank--just showing 20,000 baht a month will do the same. That seems about right for supporting a family in Thailand at a reasonable standard.

If we aren't paying income tax or property in Thailand, and we live simply and don't pay a lot of VAT, who is paying for all the infrastructure that we enjoy? Compared to other countires with a low cost of living, Thailand's roads and airports and trains are not so bad, you know.

I think what the Thais mean by "bad" foreigners are those who take as much as they can get while giving as little as possible in return. I don't think they care *that* much how we make our money, as long as we spend some of it in Thailand and don't make trouble while their supervisor is watching.

For solitary retirement, they ask for 60,000 baht a month or 800,000 baht in the bank. Explain the logic of that to me! Maybe they are taking into account the costs of purchasing companionship ;-)

Nobody in the US even bothers to complain about the INS or expects them to be rational. The fact that people are still complaining about immigration in Thailand seems like a good sign to me!

[African]

Does this only apply to people from western countries?? I know many people who have moved to Ubon from Laos and I am SURE that these people don't have B400,000 or whatever they want.

This amount seems high to me, anyway. I could live for 7-8 years in South Africa off B800,000; why do I need so much money here??!?! Yeen Ta Fo is only 20 baht.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Does this only apply to people from western countries?? I know many people who have moved to Ubon from Laos and I am SURE that these people don't have B400,000 or whatever they want.

This amount seems high to me, anyway. I could live for 7-8 years in South Africa off B800,000; why do I need so much money here??!?! Yeen Ta Fo is only 20 baht.

It is 400k for someone married to a Thai. A retiree needs 800k. And them's the rules that you are required to abide by.

[AlexInKK]

Wjta,

It looks like 40,000 baht a month will be required, rather than 20,000 (quote below).

Now that is an excessive amount.We shouldn't be expected to live any better than a Thai, as a minimum, IMO, The point is that we're married to Thais (for type-O's) and the aim is to keep families together without becoming a burden or drain on Thai society.

And 90% of Englsih teachers-a major occupation-don't make that amount.

-sorry, copy and paste function inoperable, so no quote. Re-read the beginning of the article though, for the expected monthly minimum...

Alex

"

[Dutchy]

Wjta,

It looks like 40,000 baht a month will be required, rather than 20,000 (quote below).

Now that is an excessive amount.We shouldn't be expected to live any better than a Thai, as a minimum, IMO, The point is that we're married to Thais (for type-O's) and the aim is to keep families together without becoming a burden or drain on Thai society.

And 90% of Englsih teachers-a major occupation-don't make that amount.

-sorry, copy and paste function inoperable, so no quote. Re-read the beginning of the article though, for the expected monthly minimum...

Alex

"

The aim is not to keep families together, if you can't provide the required funds families will have to split up or you'd have to make monthly border crossings. This from already limited funds to make things easier for those who want to stay with their family.

How can a married foreigner become a burden on Thai society?

You are btw expected to live better than any Thai as you can't benefit from the 30 baht health scheme, you don't have a pension even if you work for Thai governmnet organizations. (schools) And you'd often have to pay ten time the local rate for entrance fees, you naturally need to make more than locals then...

A Thai woman can't support her husband, in order to do that she's have to transfer 400,000 baht abroad, transfer it back to her husband's account and leave it there, Never mind the low interest. It's stupid but it's the way things are done here...

Dutchy

[ChiangmaiJim]

Last week I called into Chiangmai Immigration to ask them what documentation I would need for my "Suporting spouse visa" I was given a leaflet listing all the criteria, unfortunately it was written in Thai, probably another filter! I was told that the money situation was 200,000 Baht, however if you had more than this amount then it would look considerably better!!!

On Monday last, 31st. May, I went along to immigration with all the paperwork, ie. Marriage cert, Birth cert of our son, House registration book, Bank book and letter from bank, I also took my wife and son.

The whole process took about 3 hrs. as the place was packed out, I had to sign lots of photocopies and answer a few simple questions, I paid 1900 Baht and had a piece of paper stapled into my passport informing me that I have to return in 90 days time and should I overstay I will be fined up to 5000 Baht with an additional 200 Baht per day on top of that.

The immigration people were very polite and friendly and I of course was dressed smartly and very polite. No problem at all.

[royar2002]

Last time (May 26) when I did my 90 days report at Suan plu, I was told that I don't have have to report personally anymore, I can fill out the paper they give me, make copies of all pages in my passport and send it to them by post.

Is 90days report by post new or something they not allways practice.

[KhunLing]

England welcomed my Thai wife with open arms. She could stay as long as she liked. Could get a job. When she got pregnant she got free dental charges, free prescriptions, even a free eye test. She had no holdups in the English airports as she came and went. Didn't have to check in with immigration every 90 days, didn't have to leave the country every 90 days. Héll she could even buy her own house/land if she had the money.

Thai authorities just do not want long term 'visitors', they want the foreigners who come for 2-3 weeks spend all their money and go home. Very soon they will have their wicked way as they make it almost impossible for anyone to stay on a long term basis and these people will find other destinations like Vietnam and Cambodia that are like Thailand used to be.

Agreed totally. My wife could do all that in Australia.

The only 'inconvenience' we had was her degree wasn't recognised. Even that was minor, as she could do a 'bridging' course...

Conversely, I have no rights in Thailand. Our house, my visa status, everything is ridiculous.

We choose to live in Thailand as we love the country.

It's time the Thai officials realised this.........

[lopburi3]

Is 90days report by post new or something they not allways practice.

They have allowed it for those outside of Bangkok but previously never 'advertised' it as being available to those inside the city. I had to ask during last visit to get information sheet.

[translator]

Bloody good news and about time the immigration got in line with the rest of the world.

An offical release with inclusion of common sense, at last.

Been reading sweaty posts and replies about this matter for a few months now and you finally know whats happening to ya...

Well done immigration, a pat on the back from me....

[Felt 35]

My experience is that it’s not so much about bank deposits or income or a mix, which counts most, but to creep.

I couldn’t do this things listed below, but sure this is three unnecessary and inhuman things excepted.

Rule 1. Spend some money on clothes and gold chains and dress up like someone you not are.

Rule 2.Go in like a dumb cheep, your woman speaks for you. If they ask questions, “SMILE”, but don’t say a word.

Rule 3. Make the officer(s) feel big, use shoes without heels, and bend your knees or best creep.

Congratulations the visa is yours…..wife…..

[JimGant]

I paid 1900 Baht and had a piece of paper stapled into my passport informing me that I have to return in 90 days time

Does anyone know what you would need to do should you have to leave Thailand during that 90 day 'hold'? What kind of stamp would you need to get allowing you to reenter Thailand without a new visa, and to resume the 90 day countdown? Can you get the multiple entry stamp for 3800 baht at the same time you plunk down the 1900 baht per above, allowing you to leave Thailand during this 90 day interim period?

90 days seems like a lot of time to be put on 'hold.' Enough time for an emergency to crop up in farangland.

[huski]

I paid 1900 Baht and had a piece of paper stapled into my passport informing me that I have to return in 90 days time

Does anyone know what you would need to do should you have to leave Thailand during that 90 day 'hold'?

you are just reporting your address every 90 days, not put on "hold"

What kind of stamp would you need to get allowing you to reenter Thailand without a new visa, and to resume the 90 day countdown?

you need a multi entry visa or an extension/re entry permit to re enter without losing your visa. you never resume the 90 day countdown, if you leave thailand during that time the "90 day notification clock" restarts when you re enter thailand.

Can you get the multiple entry stamp for 3800 baht at the same time you plunk down the 1900 baht per above, allowing you to leave Thailand during this 90 day interim period?

the multiple re entry permit can be obtained for 3800 baht after you receive an extension in your passport. some one year extensions are completed in one day, most are not. if you leave thailand during an extension, get a re enty permit from immigration or the airport . note this re entry permit will be dated to expire with your current extension.

[Axel]

I paid 1900 Baht and had a piece of paper stapled into my passport informing me that I have to return in 90 days time

Carefull, it seems to me there are two or more things mixed up. You paid 1900 Baht? Should be the fee for extension of the visa. There shoul be a chop in your passport that either says, "...please call again on ......(date so and so) or "Permitted to stay until...."

Either date is the validity of your present visa. Apply for a re-entry permit which will be granted valid up to the same date. Either single (Baht 1000) or multiple (Baht 3800). Consider, once your visa expired or extented your re-entry no longer valid and you need a new one.

The 90 days thing, is obviously your address reporting, which is free of charge.