Israel announces new homes for settlers, Palestinians in West Bank ahead of Kushner visit

[Boon Mee]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

Palestinians have been screwing themselves for the last 70 years, and by the look of things, they are very adamant to continue to do so... 

Hear, hear. 

Truer words were never spoken. 

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which does not preclude this being an overt provocation.

 

That would be a Pavlovian "analysis". Or one that focuses on nitpicking. Maybe both. Either way, it doesn't contribute a whole lot to the discussion.

[Orton Rd]

11 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Does'nt excuse what the Israeli's have been doing since 1967 though, does it?

Self preservation and self defense by a nation surrounded by enemies, I would say it does.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Self preservation and self defense by a nation surrounded by enemies, I would say it does.

 

That might justify holding on to the conquered territory. A whole different ballgame when it comes to them illegal Israeli settlements.

[thaiguzzi]

6 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Self preservation and self defense by a nation surrounded by enemies, I would say it does.

Er no.

I would say war crimes and rules of the Geneva Convention have been broken many times in the last 50 odd years.

You would of thought, of all the peoples in the world, the Jews would have learned some humanity and empathy from what they experienced themselves during the Holocaust.

Do unto you as.... etc etc....

[Elfin]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

They are supposed to make better choices when choosing ways to oppose Israel.

So you agree with the BDS movement then?

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, Elfin said:

So you agree with the BDS movement then?

 

No, I don't. And you know this. Stop trolling.

[dexterm]

3 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

They have been screwing themselves since the 1930's when they turned down an offer from the Brits of having 80% of the land for their own country, they just could not stand the Jews having the other 20%. After 1947 when they turned down 50% from the UN the Arab armies invaded newly formed Israel and it took the Jews a year to beat them, and so the attacks went on until 1967 when this land was taken over from attacking Arabs. Palestinians are only victims of their own hate and shortsightedness. Over 95% of occupied land including Sinai and Gazza have been given back to the Arabs. If Israel ever gave up the west bank it would be used as a base to fire rockets from by these so called Palestinians who never seem to know when they are beaten. They have never been interested in a 2 state solution only one state- theirs.

Palestinians turned down deals in the 1930s and 1940s because they were unfair; exactly the same reason they are rejecting Trump's deal of the century now.

 

What right have foreign powers to dictate the giving away of Palestinian land to a minority influx of European immigrants?

 

BTW if by the 1930s you mean the Peel Commission 1937, Zionists turned down that deal too simply because they wanted even more land..exactly the same reason they are building settlements in the illegally occupied West Bank today. Do they ever learn? If Zionists had accepted the 1930s deal, it would have alleviated the tragic consequences of the Holocaust.

 

And despite all the wars, all the ethnic cleansing, all the false hopes, all the phony deals, all the influxes of illegal immigrants, all the support material and political that Israel gets from friends in high places, Palestinians are still the majority indigenous population in Palestine, and they are there to stay.

So Israel , having rejected Palestinian building permits for years, needs to come up with something better than a handful of Palestinian permits now probably as a sop to Kushner's imminent visit.

Edited August 1, 2019 by dexterm

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

I think it's pretty much established by now that as far as you're concerned, any "deal" ought to have been rejected. What you routinely fail to address is that said rejectionism did not promote the Palestinian cause one bit, and in fact, made their situations worse - over and over again.

 

If you want to go on about how Israel shouldn't exist, or shouldn't have been formed - go right ahead: that's about as expected from your inflammatory tirades. Same comment stands, as to this position not being helpful much to the Palestinian cause. More like the opposite.

 

Your last comment doesn't have anything to do with what you posted, and doesn't even make sense as a stand alone line. There is no "So", it doesn't follow that Israel "needs to come with" anything.

 

[dexterm]

39 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

I think it's pretty much established by now that as far as you're concerned, any "deal" ought to have been rejected. What you routinely fail to address is that said rejectionism did not promote the Palestinian cause one bit, and in fact, made their situations worse - over and over again.

 

If you want to go on about how Israel shouldn't exist, or shouldn't have been formed - go right ahead: that's about as expected from your inflammatory tirades. Same comment stands, as to this position not being helpful much to the Palestinian cause. More like the opposite.

 

Your last comment doesn't have anything to do with what you posted, and doesn't even make sense as a stand alone line. There is no "So", it doesn't follow that Israel "needs to come with" anything.

 

Just because someone offers you a lemon deal doesn't mean to say you have to take it.

 

The only reason Palestinians have continued to suffer is because of the bully Zionists who have far more military power and international influence amongst the cowardly west.

 

Zionists think they have immunity to do what they like and so far there have been few consequences. But the Palestinians are still there, and Israel's problem with the majority indigenous population has not gone away. Israel continues to dig a bigger hole for itself.

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but bends towards justice" (Martin Luther King)
It's only been 70 years since Israel's founding...early days yet.

[dexterm]

I guess that Netanyahu's ploy of 6000 homes for Israeli Jews and 700 permits for Palestinians is paving the way for some sort of annexation of Area C, more than half the West Bank in area but with the fewest Palestinians. We want your land but not your people.

 

Well it may get the nod from Trump, but that's about all. The global community won't endorse it. Palestinians just have to say no and stay put. US and Israeli administrations come and go but the Palestinians remain. 

 

[Morch]

Just now, dexterm said:

Just because someone offers you a lemon deal doesn't mean to say you have to take it.

 

The only reason Palestinians have continued to suffer is because of the bully Zionists who have far more military power and international influence amongst the cowardly west.

 

Zionists think they have immunity to do what they like and so far there have been few consequences. But the Palestinians are still there, and Israel's problem with the majority indigenous population has not gone away. Israel continues to dig a bigger hole for itself.

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but bends towards justice" (Martin Luther King)
It's only been 70 years since Israel's founding...early days yet.

 

Unless you missed it, all the "deals" passed through regardless of Palestinian rejectionism and violence. So nothing much was gained choosing that path.

 

As for the usual "only reason" bit - of course, anything which might imply Palestinians and Palestinian leadership are somehow accountable or responsible for anything is to be denied and rejected. And that "cowardly" West joke on top - I seem to recall many backers of the Palestinians having quite a bit of oil, money and influence, but eh...

 

Kinda doubt you've got a clue as to what "Zionists" think. Especially as you regard these as a single entity, with no differences of opinion. And yes, obviously the current right wing trend is ultimately a shot in the foot when it comes to Israel and Zionism. That doesn't make it a general Zionist position nor does it do away with expecting a measure of accountability from the Palestinian side.

 

Quoting MLK is cute, guess you don't like the ones where he said positive things about Israel, though

 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, dexterm said:

I guess that Netanyahu's ploy of 6000 homes for Israeli Jews and 700 permits for Palestinians is paving the way for some sort of annexation of Area C, more than half the West Bank in area but with the fewest Palestinians. We want your land but not your people.

 

Well it may get the nod from Trump, but that's about all. The global community won't endorse it. Palestinians just have to say no and stay put. US and Israeli administrations come and go but the Palestinians remain. 

 

 

I doubt Netanyahu himself wants to annex anything much. More to do with upcoming elections and the political make up of Israel's right wing. He's probably more aware than you, when it comes to international support and censure of such a move. And the same goes for playing this card on the domestic front.

 

Your last bit is more nonsense, especially seeing as the main Palestinian ethos related to the so-called "right of return". As in all them Palestinians who did not "remain".

 

The global community will not endorse any such annexation. Doubt the USA will as well (outside of Trump's administration). But as such things are more likely to materialize slowly, over time, reactions tend to get eroded. Actions even more so.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Unless you missed it, all the "deals" passed through regardless of Palestinian rejectionism and violence. So nothing much was gained choosing that path.

 

As for the usual "only reason" bit - of course, anything which might imply Palestinians and Palestinian leadership are somehow accountable or responsible for anything is to be denied and rejected. And that "cowardly" West joke on top - I seem to recall many backers of the Palestinians having quite a bit of oil, money and influence, but eh...

 

Kinda doubt you've got a clue as to what "Zionists" think. Especially as you regard these as a single entity, with no differences of opinion. And yes, obviously the current right wing trend is ultimately a shot in the foot when it comes to Israel and Zionism. That doesn't make it a general Zionist position nor does it do away with expecting a measure of accountability from the Palestinian side.

 

Quoting MLK is cute, guess you don't like the ones where he said positive things about Israel, though

 

I believe that MLK died shortly after the colonization of the West Bank and Jerusalem began and when the discourse about Israel was quite different to what it is today. Seems unlikely he would have supported Israeli policy in Jerusalem and the occupied territories. 

And of course there is the usual the Palestinians are to blame, too. What did the Palestinians do to justify expulsion from their homes and laws that treated them unequally? And you lay the blame for the violence on them? Convenient.

[miamiman123]

I do not think netanyahu will return as PM after September. 
 

[wabothai]

10 hours ago, Atens4 said:

Never ending story.....ongoing no end in sight

There is light at the tunnel when both trump and netanyahu are history.

[Morch]

51 minutes ago, miamiman123 said:

I do not think netanyahu will return as PM after September. 
 

 

Too early to tell, and a whole lot can happen between now and the elections. So far, polls do not support the above statement.

 

30 minutes ago, wabothai said:

There is light at the tunnel when both trump and netanyahu are history.

 

Doubtful this relies on anything much. It ignores that replacements may either be more hawkish, or less politically secure. It also disregards the Palestinian side's (or rather, sides) contribution to maintaining the conflict. Once Abbas is out of office (always around the corner, that) - a whole lot could change there, and not necessarily for the better.

 

Be careful what you wish for is a good phrase to bear in mind, in this context.

 

[Bigz]

11 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Does'nt excuse what the Israeli's have been doing since 1967 though, does it?

Sort of does. The Israelis learned that they can never trust the Arabs and given the chance they'll do everything they can to drown all Jews in the Mediterranean. Nevertheless Israel can't sweep the problem under the carpet forever. A fair peace needed for both sides urgently. The Palestinians are fast breeders and they will be the majority in Israel eventually.