Biden and Harris to square off in Round 2 of Democratic presidential debate

[Orton Rd]

Tax the rich, everyone is a racist, tax the rich, late term abortions, orange man bad is about all they have. 2020 is over before it begins, these losers need to start thinking about 2024.

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

there is very little "unique" about my analysis

Unique in the sense your selections are not anywhere near the leading choices of polls or pundits. I was curious as to your thought process to arrive at your choices, not being critical of them...

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Unique in the sense your selections are not anywhere near the leading choices of polls or pundits. I was curious as to your thought process to arrive at your choices, not being critical of them...

I don't agree. The only outlier from more mainstream perception of the top tier is Castro. He's a long shot but he had a good debate night and he's not doing as well as he should be doing based on his talent. Also I've ruled out Bernie. I don't see a path for him. His space includes Warren and she is doing much better. Bernie was cute in 2016, but I don't see the demand for a cranky old Jewish man (yes I can say that) in this more recent political environment. Yeah he gets credit for moving the party more left. He should leave it at that and find a way to exit with dignity. 

 

BTW, after I wrote that I saw Rahm Emanuel on Colbert. His top tier picks were pretty much mine. Obama's chief of staff ain't chopped liver. I was silly to originally leave out Biden because yes it probably will be him. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, TopDeadSenter said:

An astoundingly ignorant and racist comment. Vilifying a whole race due to  a few members of the race holding non progressive views is text-book racism, and a real no no these days. Shocking stuff.

Agreed that type of comment would see most members having a week off!

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I think the most important thing no matter what is getting rid of the current occupant of the white house. I see him as an existential threat to American democracy.

The problem i see with this idea is that it does nothing to prevent 45 version 2.0, in fact it may precipitate a worse version of him.

 

Without effective policy which quickly and obviously improves people's lives, a win for wins sake in 2020 is an empty victory. In the current political climate if the electorate feels they were played by the Dems into accepting a do-nothing same-same incrementalist and they perceive a business-as-usual, Beltway bubble form of govt they will dump that govt for whatever the GOP is offering up faster than you can say Trump's your uncle.

 

[mikebike]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

BTW, after I wrote that I saw Rahm Emanuel on Colbert. His top tier picks were pretty much mine. Obama's chief of staff ain't chopped liver

I watched RE on Colbert as well. All i could think was why in God's name would anyone listen to this very old-school, Chicago-style prototypical lying politician in this day and age. His thought process hasn't evolved since the 2008 election. He still believes that Obama introducing Romney-care when he held all the political capital in the country was a great thing. His thought process is what led to 45.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

I watched RE on Colbert as well. All i could think was why in God's name would anyone listen to this very old-school, Chicago-style prototypical lying politician in this day and age. His thought process hasn't evolved since the 2008 election. He still believes that Obama introducing Romney-care when he held all the political capital in the country was a great thing. His thought process is what led to 45.

That's revisionist history.

ACA as it was just barely passed.

Purists can't seem to grasp such realities. 

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, mikebike said:

I watched RE on Colbert as well. All i could think was why in God's name would anyone listen to this very old-school, Chicago-style prototypical lying politician in this day and age. His thought process hasn't evolved since the 2008 election. He still believes that Obama introducing Romney-care when he held all the political capital in the country was a great thing. His thought process is what led to 45.

Yeah he seemed to have not been great as Chicago mayor which was a shame both for himself and for Chicago. 

His thought process is more or less still quite mainstream DEMOCRATIC, as is mine, as is the majority of democrats that are going to vote in the DEMOCRATIC PARTY primary. You may not like that, that's your right, but I'm talking about getting real about what this process is about. 

What's real right now is that the reason the democrats took the house in 2018 had almost nothing to do with far leftists. It had to do with left centrists or even centrists that won in "trump" districts. 

A lesson for 2020 for sure. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[Guitarzan]

1 hour ago, WayWokeWhiteGuy said:

 

In my opinion, most of Biden's baggage is out, not so with Booker. The right will have a hay-day with Booker, and rightfully so.

 

In a choice between Trump and Mayor Pete, who do Blacks vote for?

 

 

They will tear Biden apart between his shady China and Ukrainian deals. Once the Russian collusion delusion is traced back to Obama/Biden he’s toast. 

 

America isn’t ready for a queer president that hates Christians. 2020 will have the highest black turnout for Trump of any president. IMHO

[mikebike]

53 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Bernie... a cranky old Jewish man (yes I can say that)...

Hmmm... is that really true on an anonymous forum?

 

How is it any different than an anonymous poster disparaging Cornel West by calling him "a cranky old n-word man" then saying it's ok I'm black?

 

How the heck would we know?

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, mikebike said:

The problem i see with this idea is that it does nothing to prevent 45 version 2.0, in fact it may precipitate a worse version of him.

 

Without effective policy which quickly and obviously improves people's lives, a win for wins sake in 2020 is an empty victory. In the current political climate if the electorate feels they were played by the Dems into accepting a do-nothing same-same incrementalist and they perceive a business-as-usual, Beltway bubble form of govt they will dump that govt for whatever the GOP is offering up faster than you can say Trump's your uncle.

 

I totally agree the 45 fans are not going away. It's tragic but he's changed the U.S. political landscape for at least a generation. What I don't agree about is your implication that he won mostly based on economics. There is ample evidence he won mostly based on RACISM. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Guitarzan said:

They will tear Biden apart between his shady China and Ukrainian deals. Once the Russian collusion delusion is traced back to Obama/Biden he’s toast. 

 

America isn’t ready for a queer president that hates Christians. 2020 will have the highest black turnout for Trump of any president. IMHO

Democrats shouldn't waste any energy trying to get votes represented by the above demographic. Feel the hate. 

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Hmmm... is that really true on an anonymous forum?

 

How is it any different than an anonymous poster disparaging Cornel West by calling him "a cranky old n-word man" then saying it's ok I'm black?

 

How the heck would we know?

Oh please.

 

Quote

 

‘I Wrote The Damn Bill!’ Bernie Wants YOU To Elect A Cranky Old Jewish Man

 

Bernie Sanders and his staff are leaning into his cranky Jewish elder persona after Tuesday night’s Democratic debate in Detroit, seizing on the senator’s pissed-off exclamation about the provenance of the Medicare for All bill to produce a new set of swag like stickers emblazoned with his words for the ages — “I wrote the damn bill!” — on stickers and T-shirts.

Sanders’ first words also struck the perfect note: “You’re wrong!” he said in response to Congressman John Delaney’s comment that “Medicare for All” is “political suicide.”

 

 

https://forward.com/fast-forward/428658/bernie-sanders-healthcare-jewish/

Edited August 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Democrats shouldn't waste any energy trying to get votes represented by the above demographic. Feel the hate. 

 

More than a little ironic that he uses Woody Guthries guitar as his avatar.

[mikebike]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's revisionist history.

ACA as it was just barely passed.

Purists can't seem to grasp such realities. 

It "just barely passed" because 44 was enamoured with the idea of bipartisanship with a party which was never gonna work with him. He missed his window to make good on "hope and change" purely through his own delays in trying to work with Mitch which was an obviously flawed strategy. Dems still don't get it... most of the centrists still believe they can "work with" the current crop of 45 apologist GOP members.

 

You are gonna have to tell me what a "purist" is. I haven't heard that handle used before.

Edited August 2, 2019 by mikebike

[Guitarzan]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

Tax the rich, everyone is a racist, tax the rich, late term abortions, orange man bad is about all they have. 2020 is over before it begins, these losers need to start thinking about 2024.

Democrats will cease to exist after they loose 2020. 

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, mikebike said:

It "just barely passed" because 44 was enamoured with the idea of bipartisanship with a party which was never gonna work with him. He missed his window to make good on "hope and change" purely through his own delays in trying to work with Mitch which was an obviously flawed strategy. Dems still don't get it... most of the centrists still believe they can "work with" the current crop of 45 apologist GOP members.

The only one that seems to believe that is Biden and in that sense I agree with you. They're wrong. They can't. The U.S. is polarized beyond much hope of repair UNLESS the democrats can overwhelmingly win the presidency, keep the house, and senate. Not at all likely. Interestingly MAYOR PETE is on to something about this. He is the only one talking about significant STRUCTURAL REFORM that could actually change this environment. Even if he isn't nominated, which he probably won't be, I hope his ideas on that are carefully considered. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[thasoss]

A sorry bunch...the lot of them

[mikebike]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

His thought process is more or less still quite mainstream DEMOCRATIC...

Which is the thought process which led to the Dems losing 1000s of seats nationwide at all levels - Fed, state, and municipal. And which led to 45. And which will do nothing to improve the lives of everyday Americans. Great choice as a guru.

[Guitarzan]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I totally agree the 45 fans are not going away. It's tragic but he's changed the U.S. political landscape for at least a generation. What I don't agree about is your implication that he won mostly based on economics. There is ample evidence he won mostly based on RACISM. 

After you state Blacks are homophobic, and call Sanders a cranky old Jew,  you say Trump supporters are Racist?  Amazing!

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

Which is the thought process which led to the Dems losing 1000s of seats nationwide at all levels - Fed, state, and municipal. And which led to 45. And which will do nothing to improve the lives of everyday Americans. Great choice as a guru.

You overestimate the level of my fandom.

Where I differ from the purists is that I think just getting rid of a white nationalist authoritarian demagogue president is a big and necessary accomplishment in itself. 

To pass big stuff you need a massive overall victory. Frankly I don't see how that is going to happen in 2020 regardless of who the dems put up. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, pegman said:

I think it is not race but religion at play there. Seems blacks on whole are more religious than democrats are. 

Yes as a demographic they are more church going than democrats as a whole and many churches do preach homophobia.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Guitarzan said:

Democrats will cease to exist after they loose 2020. 

Do you have inside information from Stephen Miller? 

[mikebike]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I totally agree the 45 fans are not going away. It's tragic but he's changed the U.S. political landscape for at least a generation. What I don't agree about is your implication that he won mostly based on economics. There is ample evidence he won mostly based on RACISM. 

He won because he wasn't what is usually on the menu. People (in the swing states and rust belt who are truly hurting) didn't want political SOP, They knew that standard politicians were not on their side and they were/are desperate.

 

45 hasn't really changed squat regarding the political landscape. 30% of the country has always been/thought that way and always will. It is the nature of humans. What he has changed is giving their thoughts a platform and the veneer of legitimacy.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, mikebike said:

He won because he wasn't what is usually on the menu. People (in the swing states and rust belt who are truly hurting) didn't want political SOP, They knew that standard politicians were not on their side and they were/are desperate.

 

45 hasn't really changed squat regarding the political landscape. 30% of the country has always been/thought that way and always will. It is the nature of humans. What he has changed is giving their thoughts a platform and the veneer of legitimacy.

I don't agree.

All kind of hatred are much more out in the open since his election.

He clearly stokes that up. 

There will be future "trump" like far right wing white nationalist candidates and they might actually be competent.

But one area of scary effectiveness by "trump" (he farmed it out) is with the courts.

He has changed the courts massively and not only the supreme court. This will negatively impact today's babies. 

Anyone remotely progressive should be feeling depressed because massive damage has already been done. 

Beating him in 2020 won't be a cure all, not even close.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You overestimate the level of my fandom.

Where I differ from the purists is that I think just getting rid of a white nationalist authoritarian demagogue president is a big and necessary accomplishment in itself. 

To pass big stuff you need a massive overall victory. Frankly I don't see how that is going to happen in 2020 regardless of who the dems put up. 

Probably not, but I can see it happening in 2022.

[mikebike]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh please.

 

 

https://forward.com/fast-forward/428658/bernie-sanders-healthcare-jewish/

Its not that i dont understand that it is OK within the community (as with the Jewish newspaper article you linked to). The problem i see is that on an anonymous forum who's to know if you are really part of that community or just an arse trying to slip stuff in under radar?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

Its not that i dont understand that it is OK within the community (as with the Jewish newspaper article you linked to). The problem i see is that on an anonymous forum who's to know if you are really part of that community or just an arse trying to slip stuff in under radar?

You want to see my papers? I consider this line of your posting to be obnoxious and disingenuous.

[mikebike]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Interestingly MAYOR PETE is on to something about this. He is the only one talking about significant STRUCTURAL REFORM that could actually change this environment.

Interestingly he is not the only one. But I do like his ideas in this area a lot. My issue with Pete is that he doesn't seem to have the chops (or maturity - I don't know which) to deal with relatively minor issues in a medium-sized town... how will he be able to reign in a teetering democracy?

[Guitarzan]

12 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

More than a little ironic that he uses Woody Guthries guitar as his avatar.

Giovani Gentile gave birth to Fascism. Mussolini a Socialist admired Gentile and put his fascist ideas into action. Hitler and Stalin were great admires of Mussolini.  It was Mussolini’s fascist ideology that inspired Hitler to create the German socialist party. 

 

Woody Guthrie had a better understanding of the term fascist than you seem to have.   You should spend a little time, study some history, and find out the real meaning of the word.