Mild Criticism?

[bluesofa]

Quite a few times I’ve heard people criticising someone else using the phrase ‘ngee ngow’.

I thought it meant 'idiot', or even just 'difficult to get on with'?

As I’m not sure of the spelling I tried spelling it in Thai and translating to English using Google translate. This was the result:

 

งีเง่า idiot, silly

 

งี่เง่า dumbass, stupid

 

Have I got it correct, or is there a different spelling/tone I’ve missed?

[ColeBOzbourne]

I just recently learned the term from a friend, so I'm not sure how accurate I am, but I believe your second spelling is correct (งี่เง่า) and both syllables are high tone. I think your definition is correct: silly, dumbass, foolish.

[uhuh]

This is not just a mild criticism. 

 

It is both falling tone.

[bluesofa]

2 hours ago, uhuh said:

This is not just a mild criticism. 

 

It is both falling tone.

You're saying the second spelling I used is correct, as you say they are both both falling tone. That's great, thanks.

Could I ask for a more precise definition of the phrase though?

From the obscenities I'm aware of, it's not one of those, so could you perhaps explain it in a bit more detail?

 

In the past it was said to me in Bangkok by a guy trying to scam me, claiming he was a policeman. When I said I wanted to see his police ID, the guy used the phrase towards me before driving off.

I once heard a grandmother use it to describe her adolescent grandson.

 

[PatOngo]

Can't for the life of me think where one would use such a phrase in this wonderful country!????

[jackdd]

I asked my girlfriend, the first explenation which she gave me was something like dense / obtuse / slow witted

[uhuh]

2 hours ago, bluesofa said:

You're saying the second spelling I used is correct, as you say they are both both falling tone. That's great, thanks.

Could I ask for a more precise definition of the phrase though?

From the obscenities I'm aware of, it's not one of those, so could you perhaps explain it in a bit more detail?

 

In the past it was said to me in Bangkok by a guy trying to scam me, claiming he was a policeman. When I said I wanted to see his police ID, the guy used the phrase towards me before driving off.

I once heard a grandmother use it to describe her adolescent grandson.

 

A translation that has been given before was "dumbass". Is "dumbass" a mild criticism?

[bluesofa]

1 hour ago, uhuh said:

A translation that has been given before was "dumbass". Is "dumbass" a mild criticism?

I'm assuming you think it isn't? As I'm not American and guessing that it's an American phrase. Although I've heard it, I don't know how 'offensive' it is considered.

 

That's why I asked, in the hope I'd spelt it correctly and if the translation I quoted was correct, or someone might offer an alternative.

 

edit: I've just been offered 'stupid, silly, idiotic' by someone using a different translation option.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by bluesofa
addendum

[villagefarang]

Personally I consider that term too offensive to use to someone’s face.  To be honest I haven’t heard it used for years in my circles.

[sammieuk1]

I always find being called a flat chested water monitor hilarious because one part of it just isn't true anymore ????

[bluesofa]

22 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

Personally I consider that term too offensive to use to someone’s face.  To be honest I haven’t heard it used for years in my circles.

Thanks for replying.

Just to be pedantic, I take it the google translation is pretty close then, as you obviously understand it?

[BritManToo]

'ngee ngow' means they don't know what they want and are never satisfied, closest English word 'flighty'.

Nothing to do with stupid or dumb or slow witted, usually applied to women.

 

flighty

fickle and irresponsible.

synonyms:fickle, erratic, changeable, inconstant, irresolute, mercurial, skittish, whimsical, capricious, volatile, unsteady, unstable, unbalanced, impulsive

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by BritManToo

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, uhuh said:

A translation that has been given before was "dumbass". Is "dumbass" a mild criticism?

It's almost a compliment where I am

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, jackdd said:

I asked my girlfriend, the first explenation which she gave me was something like dense / obtuse / slow witted

So, were they describing nearly every minister in the current administration, and Prayuth too? 

[rabas]

At home I get งี่เง่า when less than obedient and it's fairly common. The sense is when someone is frustrating, not doing something the right, correct, or desired way, causing general trouble or confusion in some activity. It is slightly insulting but often used jokingly.  BritManToo above gives a good list of triggers.

 

Stupid is โง่, also a falling tone, f)ngo, and I'm told never call someone โง่ unless you mean it.

 

They will often combine โง่งี่เง่า  f)ngo f)ngee f)ngao! for good effect which can be used playfully with care, but also used in great frustration.

 

Similar useful rhyming patterns:

ซื่อบื้อ : f)seu f)beu  both falling tones, closer to absurd than  งี่เง่า

ดื้อดึง : f)deu deung  falling-central tones, very stubborn.

 

All can be combined for effect. When asked for a TM30 you might say  ซื่อบื้อ คุณ โง่งี่เง่า ผมไม่ทำ. f)seu f)beu khun f)ngo f)ngee f)ngao phom mai tham!  They will call you ดื้อดึง.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by rabas

[bluesofa]

Thanks to BritManToo and rabas for the very comprehensive explanation of the phrase.

It's actually as I assumed it might be, rather than the Google offering which I thought was too abrasive.

[tgeezer]

The Thai definition of งี่เง่า ว. โง่มาก

In longdo app. dictionary there are examples containing the word งี่เง่า used to translate from English publications so can be a little difficult to fathom sometimes. 

Probably the one that fits mild criticism is this one. 

1. Oh good, I thought that you were an idiot.  โอเยี่ยม นึกว่ากำลังทำตัวงี่เง่า 

I think that the English comment means that whatever was said or done by the object and which appeared idiotic to the speaker has now become clear.  

Oh excellent, for a moment there, I imagined that you were being stupid. 

2. Is that not a little convoluted even for the two of you? 

นั่นจะไม่เป็นเรื่องงี่เง่าไปหน่อยเรือ ถึงแม้คนทำจะเป็นเธอสองคนก็เถอะ 

I wonder what people think about เรื่องงี่เง่า being translated as convoluted.  

Does it show a cultural difference in that to convolute any story is to be stupid? 

Convoluted ที่ซับซ้อนมาก 

 

 

3. And I really hate those stupid headbands. ฉันเกลียดที่คาดผมงี่เง่าพวกนี้จริงๆ เลย, ไม่... 

Obviously lifted from a book and in my opinion useless because if in context headbands are being described as stupid it appears to me that งี่เง่า refers to ผม in this extract. 

 I welcome criticism of my interpretations and if anybody has the longdo app. suggest that it could be useful as a basis for interesting discussions.

Edited August 10, 2019 by tgeezer

[bluesofa]

19 hours ago, tgeezer said:

The Thai definition of งี่เง่า ว. โง่มาก

In longdo app. dictionary there are examples containing the word งี่เง่า used to translate from English publications so can be a little difficult to fathom sometimes. 

{snipped}

Thanks tgeezer.

I think the translations offer a good understanding of the phrase.

I'm pleased you mentioned logdo online dictionary as I haven't come across that before. I've now bookmarked it.

 

This is the (large) Thai-English dictionary I have, but the phrase isn't in there:

[tgeezer]

4 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Thanks tgeezer.

I think the translations offer a good understanding of the phrase.

I'm pleased you mentioned logdo online dictionary as I haven't come across that before. I've now bookmarked it.

 

This is the (large) Thai-English dictionary I have, but the phrase isn't in there:

Thanks for responding. 

Did you spot my mistake? 

ฉันเกลียดที่คาดผมงี่เง่าพวกนี้จริงๆ เลย 

I did not parse this well at all and didn’t know the first meaning of คาด ก. พันโดอยรอบแล้วทำอย่างใดอย่างหนึ่งเช่นผูกหรือกลัดเป็นต้นเพื่อไม่ให้หลุด. 

So that now makes the object of เกลียด ที่คาดผม  ‘that which encircles the hair and is made tight is’= headband.  

I am glad that I figured that out!   

เข็มขัด น. ที่คาดเอว that which encircle the waist .....

คาดเข็มขัด tighten the belt. 

 

I find dictionaries more useful for finding derived words, often if you get one letter wrong in longdo a word can not be found.  

 

edit. the English for ผูกหรือกลัด  , The headband I visualised was elastic so the elastic secured it allowing me to ignore ผูกหรือกลัด  the definition actually says encircle then secure in some way eg. with a knot or pin . 

Edited August 11, 2019 by tgeezer

[bluesofa]

tgeezer,

I really wish I could say I was good enough to be able to spot these thing. I'm definitely not, so no I didn't.

 

I did notice คาดเข็มขัด is 'tighten the belt'.  

คาด on it's own I see as 'expect'? How does combining it with เข็มขัด make it become tighten the belt (probably seat seat belt)?

[tgeezer]

4 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

tgeezer,

I really wish I could say I was good enough to be able to spot these thing. I'm definitely not, so no I didn't.

 

I did notice คาดเข็มขัด is 'tighten the belt'.  

คาด on it's own I see as 'expect'? How does combining it with เข็มขัด make it become tighten the belt (probably seat seat belt)?

 

[tgeezer]

There are two definitions of คาด I found คาด ๒ ก. which was what I expected to find but didn’t notice this ๒. 

I then tried to make ผม the pronoun when had I just read the sentence: subject ฉัน verb เกลียด object ที่คาดผม adjective or modifier งี่เง่า .

As someone has already commented Thai is simple. 

คาดเข็มขัดนิรภัย tighten the ‘ไม่มี -danger- belt’ or Seat belt in vehicles. 

[Isaanbiker]

 

โง่ = stupid, silly, dumb- ngo:h ( falling tone) 

ความโง่ = stupidity, foolishness - khwaam ngo:h ( falling tone)

 

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[tgeezer]

20 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

 

โง่ = stupid, silly, dumb- ngo:h ( falling tone) 

ความโง่ = stupidity, foolishness - khwaam ngo:h ( falling tone)

 

 

I thought that we had passed this stage in our investigation. 

 

On 8/7/2019 at 10:41 AM, BritManToo said:

'ngee ngow' means they don't know what they want and are never satisfied, closest English word 'flighty'.

Nothing to do with stupid or dumb or slow witted, usually applied to women.

 

flighty

fickle and irresponsible.

synonyms:fickle, erratic, changeable, inconstant, irresolute, mercurial, skittish, whimsical, capricious, volatile, unsteady, unstable, unbalanced, impulsive

 

Flighty is not necessarily wrong because somebody has obviously used งี่เง่า to say those things and it has taken hold.    To then take a thesaurus and research the synonyms is not the best way to learn Thai in my opinion.  

 

งี่เง่า I would say is not a good characteristic to have and it shares that characteristic with all of the English synonyms listed above in the context of a relationship between a woman and a man.   A woman might be said by some to be งี่เง่า (flighty? ) to ‘play around’ when she has a loving family for example but better to consult a E-T dictionary if flighty is the word wanted. 

flighty [ADJ] ที่เปลียนใจง่าย (one)who easily changes their mind.   

 

The declaration that it has “Nothing to do with stupid or dumb or slow witted, usually applied to women” is not what people in the wider society understand to be the meaning.

 งี่เง่า ว. โง่มาก 

 

I prefer to disassociate English from Thai and would much rather look up an English word and increase my vocabulary by understanding the definition in Thai. Increasingly Thai words have become more and more adequately defined in Thai as my understanding of Thai has increased. This has made me out of step with other learners.