Does the Average 50 Yr Old Thai hv 800k

[thaicurious]

4 hours ago, Airalee said:

Interesting.  Thanks.  It would be nice if for all stats like that (wealth, income, debt) that we could see both median and mean.  

 

I also wonder if it could be adjusted for population size.  People above the median in China is double the population of the US.  I wonder what the median of the top 25% (350 million people) in China would be.

You're welcome. I showed just the median because while not a per capita figure (as I was really looking for savings per capita per country) it gives a relative figure that anyone can see where they land compared to that country's middle. The means is less telling in that regard as high earners (ie silicon valley skewing results) makes an individual comparison less relevant, but comparing mean to population shows better the wealth of a nation overall. A much larger mean though with fewer population could be much less wealth than a smaller mean of a larger population.

 

As to slicing info into whatever segments you'd want to study, be that percentile or age bracket or by race or by gender or whatever, you can probably google keywords to find that info. For instance...

 

3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Americans have been told for decades starting in the 70's you would need 2 million dollars to retire at 65. So that is what a lot of people have done.

https://www.bankrate.com/personal-finance/median-net-worth-by-age/

Net worth of U.S. adults

Americans' median net worth is $99,646; half of adults' net assets total more than that figure — half less.

 

Here’s a breakdown of the median net worth by age:

Ages 18-34: $11,266

Ages 35-44: $61,146

Ages 45-54: $127,044

Ages 55-64: $191,836

Ages 65-74: $229,425

Ages 75 and older: $271,162

 

Those figures include assets minus debts and it states it includes retirement accounts but I don't know if it shows Social Security or private pensions because though you can't sell those, they certainly provide a stream of income which is as much a part of wealth as collecting rents or dividends.

 

That's where figuring net worth gets a little tricky.

 

Say you had a house that would net $350k on sale. Well, the safe withdrawal rate of 4% makes an income stream from that of $14,000/year before taxes & fees.

 

But say you held onto that $350k house, rented, netting $18k/yr. Well, the 4% (which allows for inflation) safe draw that would give an initial 18k/year is 18,000 x 25 or $450k.

 

So if you sell, you bank $350k for an income of $14k but if you hold your income is $18k for a virtual bank of $450k, $100k more than if you sell. What then your net worth?

 

Same thing with Social Security or a private pension. Say you get $18,000/year CPI adjusted. You don't have that in the bank. But without that stream of income--which not everyone has paid into throughout their working life to later receive--you'd need another $450k to produce that safe withdrawal. Now what if you live another 30 years into your 90s assuming now in 60s. That pays out over half a mil. So, again, what was your net worth?

 

So I think these absolutes are general numbers that are interesting for comparisons but that the more clear picture comes from looking at streams of income (& expenses, for that matter). I would include in that even money not spent. For instance, an ageing expat might have a Social Security income stream to pay Thailand rents but an ageing Thai person might live with his children and not paying rent also has measurable value.

 

I tend to look less at absolute bottom line numbers and more in terms of do I have funds for Chiang Mai or Jomtien or Bangkok and which income streams add up to which lifestyle.

 

53 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

if a 50 year old man doesn't have the equivalent of 800,000 Baht in liquid or semi-liquid assets, then it's time to sit down with a financial planner to hear the bitter reality. It is very difficult place to be and deserves serious attention.

 

Truth is at that age, a westerner should have AT LEAST 10x that much in liquid assets.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/11/how-much-money-americans-have-in-their-savings-accounts-at-every-age.html

The typical American household has an average of $8,863 in an account at a bank or credit union...That’s purely in liquid savings, so it doesn’t include retirement funds or other investments.

 

Age 34 and younger

Singles with children: $1,350

Singles with no children: $2,729

Couples with children: $3,682

Couples with no children: $4,727

 

Ages 35 to 44

Singles with children: $2,422

Singles with no children: $3,693

Couples with children: $10,399

Couples with no children: $5,306

Ages 45 to 54

Singles with children: $4,163

Singles with no children: $5,763

Couples with children: $15,589

Couples with no children: $11,483

 

Ages 55 to 64

Singles with children: $6,911

Singles with no children: $6,786

Couples with children: $17,587

Couples with no children: $15,722

 

Ages 65 to 74

Singles with children: $6,652

Singles with no children: $7,292

Couples with children: $13,164

Couples with no children: $15,297

 

Age 75 or older

Singles with children: $6,909

Singles with no children: $9,981

Couples with children: $8,967

Couples with no children: $16,025

[Fex Bluse]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

...

@thaicurious

 

Thanks. If I had the time to look myself, I would be interested in the following:

 

1. median wealth which is less affected by high and low outliers

2. not across entire national populations but for expatriates who have emigrated or those who plan to

 

In my opinion, retiring well in a different country requires a different financial health and probably higher than the median of the national population from which a person emigrates.

 

Anyway, most of the world's population is not healthy financially. Westerners should be better off than most others. And Western expatriates should be among the most well-off financially. Theoretically, that is.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Fex Bluse

[Curt1591]

On 8/6/2019 at 6:38 PM, kokesaat said:

Everyone won't agree, but if you don't have 800k in assets, you probably shouldn't be considering retiring in a different country.....any country.

Yes; he could stay home and buy another car with it!

If one is of retirement age, and doesn't have 800,000 baht in assets, one is probably on the dole

Edited August 11, 2019 by Curt1591

[1FinickyOne]

I hear things like 50% of people in USA don't have $400 liquid assets... 

 

This is very distressing for wealthy people to have to watch, which is why they needed to relieve the stress with a big tax cut for the upper 1%... 

[Drax]

7 hours ago, amykat said:

Why don’t you change to dating her??  Upgrade things???

 

Well my gf friend flies first class to nyc and has a collection of Chanel bags and Hermès bags and lots of watches and under 30 and single.... there’s also this lb I know who is really rich and stays in London most of time and single. 

 

Meanwhile my gf has almost no savings lol. Spends all her income in stupid things. But whatever. Money isn’t everything, plus other people money aren’t your money so.. end of day just make sure the person your with doesn’t take advantage of you and be happy together and work for your own stuff. 

[Drax]

2 hours ago, thaicurious said:

You're welcome. I showed just the median because while not a per capita figure (as I was really looking for savings per capita per country) it gives a relative figure that anyone can see where they land compared to that country's middle. The means is less telling in that regard as high earners (ie silicon valley skewing results) makes an individual comparison less relevant, but comparing mean to population shows better the wealth of a nation overall. A much larger mean though with fewer population could be much less wealth than a smaller mean of a larger population.

 

As to slicing info into whatever segments you'd want to study, be that percentile or age bracket or by race or by gender or whatever, you can probably google keywords to find that info. For instance...

 

https://www.bankrate.com/personal-finance/median-net-worth-by-age/

Net worth of U.S. adults

Americans' median net worth is $99,646; half of adults' net assets total more than that figure — half less.

 

Here’s a breakdown of the median net worth by age:

Ages 18-34: $11,266

Ages 35-44: $61,146

Ages 45-54: $127,044

Ages 55-64: $191,836

Ages 65-74: $229,425

Ages 75 and older: $271,162

 

Those figures include assets minus debts and it states it includes retirement accounts but I don't know if it shows Social Security or private pensions because though you can't sell those, they certainly provide a stream of income which is as much a part of wealth as collecting rents or dividends.

 

That's where figuring net worth gets a little tricky.

 

Say you had a house that would net $350k on sale. Well, the safe withdrawal rate of 4% makes an income stream from that of $14,000/year before taxes & fees.

 

But say you held onto that $350k house, rented, netting $18k/yr. Well, the 4% (which allows for inflation) safe draw that would give an initial 18k/year is 18,000 x 25 or $450k.

 

So if you sell, you bank $350k for an income of $14k but if you hold your income is $18k for a virtual bank of $450k, $100k more than if you sell. What then your net worth?

 

Same thing with Social Security or a private pension. Say you get $18,000/year CPI adjusted. You don't have that in the bank. But without that stream of income--which not everyone has paid into throughout their working life to later receive--you'd need another $450k to produce that safe withdrawal. Now what if you live another 30 years into your 90s assuming now in 60s. That pays out over half a mil. So, again, what was your net worth?

 

So I think these absolutes are general numbers that are interesting for comparisons but that the more clear picture comes from looking at streams of income (& expenses, for that matter). I would include in that even money not spent. For instance, an ageing expat might have a Social Security income stream to pay Thailand rents but an ageing Thai person might live with his children and not paying rent also has measurable value.

 

I tend to look less at absolute bottom line numbers and more in terms of do I have funds for Chiang Mai or Jomtien or Bangkok and which income streams add up to which lifestyle.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/11/how-much-money-americans-have-in-their-savings-accounts-at-every-age.html

The typical American household has an average of $8,863 in an account at a bank or credit union...That’s purely in liquid savings, so it doesn’t include retirement funds or other investments.

 

Age 34 and younger

Singles with children: $1,350

Singles with no children: $2,729

Couples with children: $3,682

Couples with no children: $4,727

 

Ages 35 to 44

Singles with children: $2,422

Singles with no children: $3,693

Couples with children: $10,399

Couples with no children: $5,306

Ages 45 to 54

Singles with children: $4,163

Singles with no children: $5,763

Couples with children: $15,589

Couples with no children: $11,483

 

Ages 55 to 64

Singles with children: $6,911

Singles with no children: $6,786

Couples with children: $17,587

Couples with no children: $15,722

 

Ages 65 to 74

Singles with children: $6,652

Singles with no children: $7,292

Couples with children: $13,164

Couples with no children: $15,297

 

Age 75 or older

Singles with children: $6,909

Singles with no children: $9,981

Couples with children: $8,967

Couples with no children: $16,025

It doesn’t make sense to keep too much money in bank lol. Interest is lower than inflation. What matters is the income from their assets and how liquid these assets are.  

[gearbox]

"I'm guessing it's a very small % of the population here with a liquid net worth of 800,000 baht."

 

I think on the surface you are probably quite right. To accumulate the amount a Thai should have a surplus every month to put money aside.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/1639170/revenue-department-targets-online-vendors

 

It looks like from a workforce of nearly 40 millions only 3.2 millions pay income tax, I would say the people who didn't pay tax don't have the resources to accumulate that kind of liquid asset.

 

 

[JAG]

On 8/7/2019 at 5:05 PM, marcusarelus said:

Why would you care? Is there a point to the question?  Or just another senseless anti Thai rant?

Perhaps the point, as with any thread about wealth/money, is to either 1): fuel resentment amongst those who don't have it, or 2): lead to a nice warm moist feeling amongst those who do have it.

 

A really successful thread will achieve both, and spin off some classic anti Thai rants as well

 

????

[KhunFred]

The only thing that counts is having at least 65 thousand baht a month in total income. My total income is about 80 thousand a month with no savings. How, exactly, am i unprepared for retirement?

[NCC1701A]

5 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Dear Walter White, those days are over now.

OK I will let my friend who just paid cash for two houses in the USA know.

[Rimmer]

My wife is not quite 50 but has more than 800k in two bank accounts and even owns two cars, is she average, I don't know.

 

But I suspect the OP is probably correct with his assumption that a very small % of the population will have a liquid net worth in excess of 800,000 baht.

I never see any large amounts printed on the ATM print outs slips that I pick up from the ground around the machines in an effort to keep the place tidy. 

[EricTh]

The average Thai do have at least 800k but that is tied down to their house asset and car asset.

 

You can't imagine the amount of renovation done and furniture that my neighbours bought. 

 

As for available cash, I don't think the average Thai would have that much floating in their bank accounts.

 

They would spend , spend and spend at shopping malls. Just look at the crowd there during the weekends.

Edited August 12, 2019 by EricTh

[emptypockets]

On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 10:59 AM, JimmyTheMook said:

 

Talking 800k liquid.

Such as being able to dump into a bank account and leave it there.

 

 

Why are you so concerned about how much the average Thai has in the bank?

Are you a social worker? Perhaps investigate how many Thai's have private health insurance if that makes you feel better. Or ask how many own land.

Contrary to what you, and a lot of farangs think, not all Thais live in bars or sell somtam from street carts. I realise the bar stool denizens and the overseas members whose only knowledge of Thailand is gleaned from this forum may not understand this.

 

My wife has three sisters and one brother - ALL own land and houses varying from farms in Rayong and  Surin to houses in Rayong and Bangkok. None, except me and the wife, live in Isaan. All the families have two or three cars plus motorbikes.

The sister and brother in Bangkok have holiday/weekenders in Rayong as well as their houses in Bangkok.. One of the younger sisters husband makes similar money to me, and I get paid from the west (around 350,000 a month). I guess that's what an education and hard work will do for you. He has also worked all over the world as a chemical engineer.

 

The average Thai doesn't need to apply for permission to live in Thailand every 12 months, or, indeed, ever.

What is the point of your thread? Are you one of the many struggling dream weavers who think they can live anywhere without sufficient funds, trying to justify the hardship you now find yourself in by blaming someone else?

 

To answer you original question. Yes 800k in the bank and in a lot of cases much, much more. Even the mother in law on her 700 baht pension has over a million.

800k baht is not a lot of money.

 

[emptypockets]

On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 4:48 PM, thaicurious said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

Country........Median Wealth (in US$)

Iceland.........203,847

Australia......191,453

France..........106,827

Canada.........106,342

UK.................97,169

USA..............61,667

China...........16,333

Russia.........2,739

Vietnam......1,806

Thailand......1,085

Myanmar.......739

Ukraine...........40

 

Absolute nonsense but I guess that's what you get when you rely on Wikipedia for your information. Try a more informed source:

Average Australian wealth

Australia’s average wealth per adult is $US430,777 ($A544,000), which is the second-highest in the world after Switzerland. However, Australia’s median wealth (the wealth of the middle wealthiest person in Australia) is the highest in the world, at $US225,000 ($A258,000).

Reference: www.smartcompany.com.au/finance/funding/here-s-why-australians-are-once-again-the-wealthiest-peo…

Edited August 12, 2019 by emptypockets

[emptypockets]

6 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

You do realise that a 3m condo that is mortgaged to the hilt by the bank is not a liquid asset you could cash in and walk away with money from ?

 

 

 

You do realise that many condos are not mortgaged to the hilt?

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

The only thing that counts is having at least 65 thousand baht a month in total income. My total income is about 80 thousand a month with no savings. How, exactly, am i unprepared for retirement?

Variations in exchange rate? A sudden health crisis? A change to immigration income requirements to say 100,000 baht a month?  A change to immigration requirements to a lump sum in the bank and no more monthly income allowed?

Need I go on?

 

Really, after a lifetime of work you only have 80,000 baht a month? 80,000 a month from dividends on investments or interest on savings I can understand.

I've been divorced twice so I understand financial crisis. No way I will retire based purely on a pension. No way.

Edited August 12, 2019 by emptypockets

[Beggar]

If they kick out all Thais that don't have at least 800k at the bank than Thailand would be very empty.

[Seth1a2a]

On 8/9/2019 at 7:01 PM, JimmyTheMook said:

Point is the assessment that a foreigner should have 800k liquid to sit in a bank account for a retirement visa when I feel the average Thai would seldom meet this requirement.

Look at it this way.......800k is absolutely your problem and not the Thais.

My Thai friend is worth 4 million USD easily and is supporting a family of 6 plus cook and cleaning staff .He has probably got 1,000,000.00  baht in the bank if that considering new cars for his kids and regular gifts to his wife.   

Don't discount  "value" for "cash"  . The powers that be came up with the 800,000 as an equivalent  amount for a non Thai to be considered as reasonably self sufficient. Why??? Because  "You" can't own property, "you" can't start a business and "you" can't work without complying with a dozen restrictions that Thais do not have to worry about.  Now all of a sudden you want them to comply with the rules they made to keep "you" in compliance to rules that they don't need to comply with to begin with.

    Bring your own baby bottle. Don't suck on theirs when your currency gets a bad exchange, when you run out of money for healthcare or if you blow it all on Pattaya, Phuket or Phitsanaluk  prostitutes........

Your question would only apply as a comparison if Thais were being asked to

produce 800000 to live/retire in your country and not theirs In my opinion ....... 

 

________________________________________________

Ask not, what another man's country can do for you. 

 

[Saltire]

"I started off with nothing and I still have most of it left"  - Seasick Steve

[Bangkokazy]

Should anyone retire in Thailand from the West, you need at least $ 200,000 k in a bank and a monthly pension  of $ 2000 k

[thaicurious]

6 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

@thaicurious

 

Thanks. If I had the time to look myself, I would be interested in the following:

 

1. median wealth which is less affected by high and low outliers

2. not across entire national populations but for expatriates who have emigrated or those who plan to

 

In my opinion, retiring well in a different country requires a different financial health and probably higher than the median of the national population from which a person emigrates.

 

Anyway, most of the world's population is not healthy financially. Westerners should be better off than most others. And Western expatriates should be among the most well-off financially. Theoretically, that is.

 

Such research might seem a bit niche so not sure you'll find it easily. Perhaps try an expat org, mag or dotcom that's done such surveys.

 

Retiring well means something different to each person. Some shop malls to try and make themselves happy; others get no thrill from champagne.

 

Income or "wealth" is relative to what you spend and to what stuff costs. $1,500 a month might buy a comfortable middle class carefully lived life in Chiang Mai or Rai, or a lower income life in Pattaya maybe risking minimal or no health insurance to pay higher rents or it might only pay for one month's health insurance premium Stateside. Alternatively, you might feel rich in Bangkok but poor in Monaco.

 

Differing costs of living means a person of lesser means in one location might be a person of adequate or even of considerable means in another.

 

4 hours ago, Drax said:

It doesn’t make sense to keep too much money in bank lol. Interest is lower than inflation. What matters is the income from their assets and how liquid these assets are.  

Generally true but also dependent on a person's comfort level and you simply never know with absolute certainty what might be tomorrow. Some are more comfortable in cash even if it just sits there being eaten by inflation. I rationalize the 800k baht, for instance, as a hedge against whatever remote possibility of a home country hyperinflation event which might last a year so it makes sense to me to put aside a year's living expenses in the currency of a country of residency.

 

As to what's liquid, also somewhat relative. Stocks/bonds considered liquid unless you just had a big drop that might make you want to hold for it to come back first. Alternatively, a house can be suddenly somewhat liquid if you bring your price low enough.

 

2 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Absolute nonsense but I guess that's what you get when you rely on Wikipedia for your information. Try a more informed source:

Average Australian wealth

Australia’s average wealth per adult is $US430,777 ($A544,000), which is the second-highest in the world after Switzerland. However, Australia’s median wealth (the wealth of the middle wealthiest person in Australia) is the highest in the world, at $US225,000 ($A258,000).

Reference: www.smartcompany.com.au/finance/funding/here-s-why-australians-are-once-again-the-wealthiest-peo…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

This is a list of countries of the world by wealth per adult, published annually in Credit Suisse's Global Wealth Databook.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_Suisse

Credit Suisse Group AG is a Swiss multinational investment bank and financial services company founded and based in Switzerland. Headquartered in Zürich, it maintains offices in all major financial centers around the world and is one of the eight global "Bulge Bracket" banks providing services in investment banking, private banking, asset management, and shared services.

[JimmyTheMook]

5 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Why are you so concerned about how much the average Thai has in the bank?

Are you a social worker? Perhaps investigate how many Thai's have private health insurance if that makes you feel better. Or ask how many own land.

Contrary to what you, and a lot of farangs think, not all Thais live in bars or sell somtam from street carts. I realise the bar stool denizens and the overseas members whose only knowledge of Thailand is gleaned from this forum may not understand this.

 

My wife has three sisters and one brother - ALL own land and houses varying from farms in Rayong and  Surin to houses in Rayong and Bangkok. None, except me and the wife, live in Isaan. All the families have two or three cars plus motorbikes.

The sister and brother in Bangkok have holiday/weekenders in Rayong as well as their houses in Bangkok.. One of the younger sisters husband makes similar money to me, and I get paid from the west (around 350,000 a month). I guess that's what an education and hard work will do for you. He has also worked all over the world as a chemical engineer.

 

The average Thai doesn't need to apply for permission to live in Thailand every 12 months, or, indeed, ever.

What is the point of your thread? Are you one of the many struggling dream weavers who think they can live anywhere without sufficient funds, trying to justify the hardship you now find yourself in by blaming someone else?

 

To answer you original question. Yes 800k in the bank and in a lot of cases much, much more. Even the mother in law on her 700 baht pension has over a million.

800k baht is not a lot of money.

 

 

Chill Sherm.

 

The average Thai lives next to you in Isaan.