Another Brexit thread, have a look anyway.

[Golden Triangle]

Yes, I know that this subject has been done to death on here, but......

 

Is it possible to get some independent, unbiased & logical views on the outcome of a no deal Brexit 

 

I have to say that personally I am horrified at the thought of BoJo taking us out without a deal, I think it's stupid and ultimately very damaging to our economy for many many years.

 

I didn't start this to provide a platform for uneducated rhetoric, I simply want to know whether or not you members that have a valid interest in this are happy staying in or coming out of the EU. 

 

My lifestyle has already been impacted on and it could get worse.........................................

 

Over to you.

 

 

[BritManToo]

Prevarication will be more damaging.

[vogie]

There is very little Boris can do if the EU won't renegotiate a deal, they have pushed us into a corner and they are not bothered who it hurts, including themselves.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

There is very little Boris can do if the EU won't renegotiate a deal, they have pushed us into a corner and they are not bothered who it hurts, including themselves.

Who pushed whom into a corner?

It's like starting a fight with the big guy and when the big guy holds you in the corner you complain: Why do you do that to me? You are so unfair...

[dode57k]

I don't live in the UK any more but continue to work there at least for the next couple of years. I think something we will need to be aware of is the likelihood that the British government will start to water down workers rights/protections. Maybot spoke of this when she was Home secretary.

There are many reasons why I think Brexit won't be good for Britain but this would be uppermost for me.

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Who pushed whom into a corner?

It's like starting a fight with the big guy and when the big guy holds you in the corner you complain: Why do you do that to me? You are so unfair...

 

 

Yep................. that's the trouble with 'negotiation'.

 

 

 

When you have a bully on one side it is difficult to gain agreement.......... but perhaps that was never the intention.

 

 

To answer the OP's question......................... OUT..................... no change from 3 years ago.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Jip99

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Who pushed whom into a corner?

It's like starting a fight with the big guy and when the big guy holds you in the corner you complain: Why do you do that to me? You are so unfair...

I have told you about your analogies, they don't work.

Boris wants a deal, if the EU won't talk, what can we do, the ball is in the EUs court and not ours, unless we accept the crumbs they have thrown on the floor for us to pick up. Which he looks like refusing.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I have told you about your analogies, they don't work.

Boris wants a deal, if the EU won't talk, what can we do, the ball is in the EUs court and not ours, unless we accept the crumbs they have thrown on the floor for us to pick up. Which he looks like refusing.

Let's try another example: You go to the car dealer and you tell him: I want a deal. I offer you this great deal. I will give you 10,000USD for this brand new luxury car. I want that deal.

And then you are somehow disappointed when the car dealer tells you that you can get a new small car for that money or maybe a big used car. But it's impossible that he give you the brand new sports car for 10k.

And then you walk out complaining that he is the bad guy because he didn't want to deal with you. That bad guy refused your offer. Yeah, sure!

[Jip99]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's try another example: You go to the car dealer and you tell him: I want a deal. I offer you this great deal. I will give you 10,000USD for this brand new luxury car. I want that deal.

And then you are somehow disappointed when the car dealer tells you that you can get a new small car for that money or maybe a big used car. But it's impossible that he give you the brand new sports car for 10k.

And then you walk out complaining that he is the bad guy because he didn't want to deal with you. That bad guy refused your offer. Yeah, sure!

 

 

Vogie was right.........................your analogies just don't cut it !                    ????

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

Vogie was right.........................your analogies just don't cut it !                    ????

Maybe I should try it according to the principle: How would you explain it to a 5 year old child?

The problem is I didn't explain anything to a 5 year old child for a long time so I won't even try.

[Blue Muton]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

There is very little Boris can do if the EU won't renegotiate a deal, they have pushed us into a corner and they are not bothered who it hurts, including themselves.

So much for the "unbiased & logical views".

[vogie]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's try another example: You go to the car dealer and you tell him: I want a deal. I offer you this great deal. I will give you 10,000USD for this brand new luxury car. I want that deal.

And then you are somehow disappointed when the car dealer tells you that you can get a new small car for that money or maybe a big used car. But it's impossible that he give you the brand new sports car for 10k.

And then you walk out complaining that he is the bad guy because he didn't want to deal with you. That bad guy refused your offer. Yeah, sure!

I've got an even better idea, let's stick to realities. Please answer this simple question, if the EU won't talk to us, what is Boris supposed to do, baring in mind we are leaving, it seems to me we have very little choice.

[Golden Triangle]

I just don't see the EU giving any quarter, they may well have the upper hand here, but other views are saying that without the UK then the EU is stuffed, I personally do not subscribe to that view, will the loss of 39 Billion GBP make a difference to the EU, I honestly do not know, maybe some of you slightly more politically astute members can fill us in, using a neutral standpoint of course.

 

I would rather not see the mods close this thread because of extreme views or bickering members but rather gather views from those that will be affected, me included.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

will the loss of 39 Billion GBP make a difference to the EU,

I can see them surviving the loss of 30% of their funding.

They can't afford to let the UK leave.

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's try another example: You go to the car dealer and you tell him: I want a deal. I offer you this great deal. I will give you 10,000USD for this brand new luxury car. I want that deal.

A better analogy would be the dealer saying

You're buying this car for $39 billion, even though you don't want it, and I'm not letting you leave the showroom until you've paid.

Edited August 6, 2019 by BritManToo

[Jip99]

17 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe I should try it according to the principle: How would you explain it to a 5 year old child?

The problem is I didn't explain anything to a 5 year old child for a long time so I won't even try.

 

 

Best advice OMF is ................................ stop using the principle of explaining it to 5 year olds.......... that is for remainers...... we are all growed up..... ????

[ThaiPauly]

I hate politics, I don't have much time for politicians either.

 

However from my own personal point of view I think the public were constantly lied to by Leave during the run up to the referendum, the Government could not lie. Dominic Cummings did a brilliant job of running the leave campaign, if you have seen the movie Brexit A Very Uncivil War you will get the picture of how the people were manipulated.

 

Maybe we will be better off out than in... but in my lifetime, what's left of it I am not expecting to see any benefits especially with no deal..All my income comes from the UK , so me like everybody else in that situation is at least 20% worse off than we were 3 years ago.

 

Why should I be happy that we are leaving under those circumstances? How will I be better off?

 

When we leave ..if without a deal which is how it's looking all of us who depend on our money from the UK to live on  can look to be maybe 35-40% worse off than before the referendum.

 

How is that a good thing?  Those that work here and make their money here are not much worse off,

I had a business in the UK which I sold to retire here, but my pensions and income from property are in the UK so have to be transferred here when I need money....However I won't bring millions over as I just don't want to have funds tied up in Thailand apart from what I have tied up in my house here.

 

I am fortunate that I brought my property when the baht was 75 to the pound, I pity anyone who is buying now!!

 

Anyway, I expect a lot of stick from you Leavers, but don't bother yourselves with justifying anything I have said here. It's my personal opinion formed after watching this circus for 3 years. I am not asking anyone to change their mind

If you are a Leaver you must have a good reason to be and I will respect that.

 

However "Be careful what you wish for"

 

So for me Brexit is a very bad thing.....

 

Another example, my son was the branch manager of an Estate Agency in Oxfordshire, he has had to quit his job because nobody is buying houses anymore with the threat of a 10% drop in prices as a result of a no deal. He was lucky, he found another job, he has a family to support. The manager of the lettings department was not so lucky he was made redundant.

This is happening everywhere in the property market

Edited August 6, 2019 by ThaiPauly
Smelling Pisstake

[damascase]

42 minutes ago, vogie said:

There is very little Boris can do if the EU won't renegotiate a deal, they have pushed us into a corner and they are not bothered who it hurts, including themselves.

You weren’t pushed into a corner - you started off in that corner position and didn’t take any action to get out of it. Don’t keep blaming the EU for having developed a plan while you didn’t bother to come up with one.

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, damascase said:

You weren’t pushed into a corner - you started off in that corner position and didn’t take any action to get out of it. Don’t keep blaming the EU for having developed a plan while you didn’t bother to come up with one.

 

 

Bugger!...... and there was me thinking that we were working hand in hand with our European allies.

[dode57k]

Another possible downside to leaving is how much of the 39 billion will be spent on replacing the billions Europe give in funding to many parts of the UK? I'd suggest nowhere near.

[damascase]

39 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Yep................. that's the trouble with 'negotiation'.

 

 

 

When you have a bully on one side it is difficult to gain agreement.......... but perhaps that was never the intention.

 

 

To answer the OP's question......................... OUT..................... no change from 3 years ago.

What if the UK negotiators had come up with some ideas or even the outline if a plan? Going into negotiations of whatever kind without a clue of which direction to take puts you in a weak position.

[CNXexpat]

18 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

I just don't see the EU giving any quarter,

You are a member of a tennis club. You are a good player and make that the team wins some trophies. Now you decide that you want all the honor for yourself, the yearly fees are too expensive and want to leave the club. What are you usually do? You say "I am leaving now", pack your stuff and go away. But you don´t do that. You go to the club manager and say: "I want to leave this club, I don´t want to pay the fees anymore, I don´t like the fixed times for trainings, I hate to drive with the ugly club bus and also I hate some of the team members. BUT! If I am out I still want to have the discount for members at the restaurant, I want an invitation for the Christmas party, I want to use the club pool for free and, and, and". What do you think will the club manager tell you? Do you really think you are in the position to demand something?

 

Yes, I know my analogy fits not 100% - but it´s very similar. 

[Jip99]

7 minutes ago, damascase said:

What if the UK negotiators had come up with some ideas or even the outline if a plan? Going into negotiations of whatever kind without a clue of which direction to take puts you in a weak position.

 

 

IMO Article 50 should have made provision for that.

 

Direction was simple..... it was OUT........ the issue was that both sides largely sat on their thumbs for 3 years. Theresa May was never in touch with what Brexit should look like. In fairness, neither did the EU because this hasn't cropped up before. 

[brokenbone]

eu has given their final offer, gb has given their final offer,
its an impasse. gb stands to lose far more,
its now for the brits to calculate/gamble if short term losses outweigh long term profit or the other way around

[david555]

[Slip]

11 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

You are a member of a tennis club. You are a good player and make that the team wins some trophies. Now you decide that you want all the honor for yourself, the yearly fees are too expensive and want to leave the club. What are you usually do? You say "I am leaving now", pack your stuff and go away. But you don´t do that. You go to the club manager and say: "I want to leave this club, I don´t want to pay the fees anymore, I don´t like the fixed times for trainings, I hate to drive with the ugly club bus and also I hate some of the team members. BUT! If I am out I still want to have the discount for members at the restaurant, I want an invitation for the Christmas party, I want to use the club pool for free and, and, and". What do you think will the club manager tell you? Do you really think you are in the position to demand something?

 

Yes, I know my analogy fits not 100% - but it´s very similar. 

When I was a kid I hated Sunday school, but my mum always told me that if I didn't go, then I couldn't go to the Sunday school summer picnic.  Brexiteers want the picnic, but they don't want to go to Sunday school, and they think that they are so important that they shouldn't have to.

 

(I also used to stamp my feet and throw little tantrums as we see on a daily basis here and in UK politics from the leave side, but she was spot on.)

Edited August 6, 2019 by Slip

[CNXexpat]

29 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Bugger!...... and there was me thinking that we were working hand in hand with our European allies.

Allies = team. And you want to leave the team. You want to play alone or build a new team. Up to you. No problem. But why do you think you have the right to demand something from the team you left?

[Aforek]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

..., if the EU won't talk, what can we do, the ball is in the EUs court and not ours, ...

????????????

 

EU talks for three years already and you ( you ? are you Britain ? ) say no , no, no all the time

what can EU say more ? I remind you and everybody  that it's Britain who wanted to leave, in a such case, you can't discuss the conditions; if you were fired, ok, you can discuss, but not here; problem is that Britain wants to leave with everything and giving nothing ( have the cake and eat it ( or something like that, don't remember the correct expression ) 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Aforek

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Allies = team. And you want to leave the team. You want to play alone or build a new team. Up to you. No problem. But why do you think you have the right to demand something from the team you left?

 

 

Putting words in people's mouths again..... seems to be an EU/remainer trait.

 

 

Where did I say anything about having the right to 'demand' anything ?

 

 

Having decided to leave the 'team' I would want, and expect, to be able to AGREE the basis on which we play together in the future. No demands there, just mutually acceptable terms  on which we can work together .......... you know,  you need us as much as we need you as far as trade is concerned.... This is not about demands, it is about future relationships.

 

 

 

An analogy (OneMoreFarang please note????) ...... if I chose to leave my golf club I would expect to agree the basis upon which I could play there in the future. I would next expect the same terms as fee paying members.

 

But wait........... my golf club does set out the terms on which non-members can play............................. perhaps they should re-write Article 50 because the b4stards in the EU couldn't manage it.

 

 

[Handsome Gardener]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Prevarication will be more damaging.

Why and how ?

 

If the prevarication was to allow a deal to be implemented it would be hugely beneficial