Another Brexit thread, have a look anyway.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I've got an even better idea, let's stick to realities. Please answer this simple question, if the EU won't talk to us, what is Boris supposed to do, baring in mind we are leaving, it seems to me we have very little choice.

The EU is talking to the UK since years. They negotiated a deal.

But now Boris tells the EU: You have to drop the backstop (which both agreed to), otherwise we don't talk to you anymore.

The EU insists on the backstop because it wants to keep the peace. The EU is also happy to remove the backstop if it is not necessary because the UK stays in the custom union.

Which part is so difficult to understand for Boris? If he wants a deal then he should go to Brussel and present his sensible deal. I am sure the EU would be delighted to listen to a sensible deal from Boris. Because it would be the first time that Boris even tries to talk to them without mocking them the next day in some UK tabloid.

[Handsome Gardener]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

There is very little Boris can do if the EU won't renegotiate a deal, they have pushed us into a corner and they are not bothered who it hurts, including themselves.

The deal was negotiated between the UK and the EU, give a reason why the EU should renegotiate  that when the person the UK elected as their leader agreed to it - this is a classic example of how the UK are going to have a torrid time negotiating deals post Brexit.

 

If you negotiate a deal, whinge endlessly about it, (and the head whinger Bojo voted FOR that deal remember) and then demand its reopened after you've agreed to sign it in order to make a name for yourself, who is going to want to trade with that level of immaturity ? 

 

 

[CNXexpat]

9 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Putting words in people's mouths again..... seems to be an EU/remainer trait.

 

 

Where did I say anything about having the right to 'demand' anything ?

 

 

Having decided to leave the 'team' I would want, and expect, to be able to AGREE the basis on which we play together in the future. No demands there, just mutually acceptable terms  on which we can work together .......... you know,  you need us as much as we need you as far as trade is concerned.... This is not about demands, it is about future relationships.

 

 

 

An analogy (OneMoreFarang please note????) ...... if I chose to leave my golf club I would expect to agree the basis upon which I could play there in the future. I would next expect the same terms as fee paying members.

 

But wait........... my golf club does set out the terms on which non-members can play............................. perhaps they should re-write Article 50 because the b4stards in the EU couldn't manage it.

 

 

"my golf club does set out the terms on which non-members can play"

That´s what the Britons think - but it´s wrong. You want the status of Norway and Switzerland but without following the rules these two countries have to follow with the EU. You want to have the right to play still in the golf club but you want to wear a football dress, you want to make a picnic on the green and don´t want to use the golf cart but your SUV. 

 

"...the basis on which we play together in the future…"

The basis are the WTO rules. That´s clear. Like every other country which have no trading contract with the EU. If you are out the EU can start to talk with the UK about a trading contract. But bad news, the trading contract with Switzerland and Canada needed around 10 years. 

 

I am a German and I am fit in economy. Believe me, the Germans are really sad that the Britons leave the EU. You made some problems in the last years, but we still love you. German companies invested a lot in the UK, they sell a lot in the UK and it´s not good for the German economy when you leave. But it was/is your wish. Up to you.

The Germans pay a lot of money to the EU and sometimes we are not happy with the EU - but we know that we have alone no chance against Mr. America First, China and the upcoming India. The UK thinks they will have a chance, they will make fantastic deals with the USA, China, India and so on. Well, perhaps, but I don´t think so. Every logic shows that the UK will lose a lot. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

IMO Article 50 should have made provision for that.

 

Direction was simple..... it was OUT........ the issue was that both sides largely sat on their thumbs for 3 years. Theresa May was never in touch with what Brexit should look like. In fairness, neither did the EU because this hasn't cropped up before. 

The UK parliament could have replaced her years ago. Why didn't they do that?

Especially Boris was always there to criticize. But when did he ever present any good workable ideas?

What did he do when he was foreign secretary? Anything positive?

And now people voted for him to be PM and they are surprised that he has no clue how to do that. Amazing UK!

[Handsome Gardener]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

A better analogy would be the dealer saying

You're buying this car for $39 billion, even though you don't want it, and I'm not letting you leave the showroom until you've paid.

Or to put it accurately - you AGREED to pay in 39 billion - why would you agree to pay 39 billion for something you don't want? I'm not letting you leave the showroom as this is what you ordered !

 

 

[Handsome Gardener]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The UK parliament could have replaced her years ago. Why didn't they do that?

Especially Boris was always there to criticize. But when did he ever present any good workable ideas?

What did he do when he was foreign secretary? Anything positive?

And now people voted for him to be PM and they are surprised that he has no clue how to do that. Amazing UK!

Well put but to add a little extra tragedy - the people of the UK didn't vote for him - he seized his chance on the back of 0.13% of the population voting for him through their Tory membership!

 

So 99.87% of the UK electorate had to sit back and watch a clueless moron waft into No 10 and take the reins of the 5th largest economy in the world. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

 

He has no mandate whatsoever to continue the carnage. Having said that brexiteers would vote for Tin Tin if he promised Brexit. 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Handsome Gardener said:

Well put but to add a little extra tragedy - the people of the UK didn't vote for him - he seized his chance on the back of 0.13% of the population voting for him through their Tory membership!

 

So 99.87% of the UK electorate had to sit back and watch a clueless moron waft into No 10 and take the reins of the 5th largest economy in the world. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

 

He has no mandate whatsoever to continue the carnage. Having said that brexiteers would vote for Tin Tin if he promised Brexit. 

"A clueless moron, now where have I heard that before? ????????????

[Handsome Gardener]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Best advice OMF is ................................ stop using the principle of explaining it to 5 year olds.......... that is for remainers...... we are all growed up..... ????

Or GROWN up as a 5 year old would say

[oldhippy]

I don't see the benefit of another election or referendum, with the British so entrenched in opposite views.

 

That goes for the people, the government, the opposition, the MP's.

The result would be in te range of 45-55 or 55-45.... with whatever result there would be almost half the population against it.

 

Cameron and May should never have played electoral games.

Unfortunately, real statesmen/women are hard to find, and building bridges is too much hard work.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by oldhippy
.

[sammieuk1]

One thing for absolute sure the poor will be poorer and end up paying for the rich to play their game of aspirations and whatever the dire outcome will still be rich ????

[Jip99]

33 minutes ago, Handsome Gardener said:

Or GROWN up as a 5 year old would say

 

 

You are clearly unfamiliar with Rugrats.........

[Jip99]

42 minutes ago, Handsome Gardener said:

Well put but to add a little extra tragedy - the people of the UK didn't vote for him - he seized his chance on the back of 0.13% of the population voting for him through their Tory membership!

 

So 99.87% of the UK electorate had to sit back and watch a clueless moron waft into No 10 and take the reins of the 5th largest economy in the world. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

 

He has no mandate whatsoever to continue the carnage. Having said that brexiteers would vote for Tin Tin if he promised Brexit. 

 

 

Talking of clueless morons, you are also clearly unfamiliar with the democratic process operating within UK parliamentary parties.

 

Your numbers are meaningless and pointless.......political parties choose their leaders, not the electorate.

[CNXexpat]

The UK car industry will get huge problems. After this CNN report BMW said, that in case of a hard Brexit they will leave the UK too with the MINI production.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/31/business/uk-car-industry-brexit/index.html

 

I read newspapers from both sides, pro and contra Brexit, to get a clear picture. Sometimes I think that the Brexiteers only read information from Brexiteers and close their eyes about facts from the other side. 

[oldhippy]

15 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Talking of clueless morons, you are also clearly unfamiliar with the democratic process operating within UK parliamentary parties.

 

Your numbers are meaningless and pointless.......political parties choose their leaders, not the electorate.

Of course political parties can choose their leaders, according to their own rules.

But how common is it that a newly chosen party leader automatically becomes PM?

Sounds very USSR to me.

Edited August 6, 2019 by oldhippy
.

[dode57k]

2 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

I just don't see the EU giving any quarter, they may well have the upper hand here, but other views are saying that without the UK then the EU is stuffed, I personally do not subscribe to that view, will the loss of 39 Billion GBP make a difference to the EU, I honestly do not know, maybe some of you slightly more politically astute members can fill us in, using a neutral standpoint of course.

 

I would rather not see the mods close this thread because of extreme views or bickering members but rather gather views from those that will be affected, me included.

Maybe not the replies you were looking for then? Pity ????

[Golden Triangle]

1 minute ago, dode57k said:

Maybe not the replies you were looking for then? Pity ????

I don't have a problem with the replies so far, therefore I don't understand your comment.

 

I wasn't looking for any particular type of comment, just that the conversation be kept civil with valid responses, unfortunately as far as I can tell yours doesn't fit that criteria, why would you say such a thing ? do you have an agenda ? Tell you what dode whatever unless you have something other than trolling in mind keep quiet please.

 

 

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

"subscribe to that view, will the loss of 39 Billion GBP make a difference to the EU"

 

AFAIK these billions are not lost, as they never existed in the first place. These seems to be just contractual money as per the EU laws to be paid on exit.  Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The 9 billion pounds hole in the EU budget is very small in comparison to the budgets of the EU states. If it is not there,  probably the net recipient countries will get less money, and that's all.

 

Here is a list of the government budgets, the German budget alone is around 2 trillion USD.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_budget

 

 

 

 

[jimballard]

I have not been in GB for 10 years but might have to go back soon. from what I am reading and hearing the country is tearing self apart and is busted. when I left I had never heard the word Brexit and nobody I knew was talking about leaving the EU. It seems now that people are not labour or tory they are leave or remain. Some of the stuff I read in the online daily mail is just crazy. WW2 stuff. Seems its going to take a long time to repair.

An old scottish guy I know in Ubon gets wild and angry about Brexit and hates the EU and muslims. I asked him when was the last time he was in GB, 20 years ago he says!!

[Handsome Gardener]

5 hours ago, jimballard said:

I have not been in GB for 10 years but might have to go back soon. from what I am reading and hearing the country is tearing self apart and is busted. when I left I had never heard the word Brexit and nobody I knew was talking about leaving the EU. It seems now that people are not labour or tory they are leave or remain. Some of the stuff I read in the online daily mail is just crazy. WW2 stuff. Seems its going to take a long time to repair.

An old scottish guy I know in Ubon gets wild and angry about Brexit and hates the EU and muslims. I asked him when was the last time he was in GB, 20 years ago he says!!

You hit the nail on the head - in approx. 20 years the vast majority of misguided uninformed old people that voted for Brexit will be dead and the newer generations can set about repairing the damage.

 

Its just a shame that the wrinklies didn't care about the people coming up behind them, presumably none of them have grandkids, and whose lives they will be damaging. 

 

When they do start to expire expect to see the levels of hatred, xenophobia and bitterness start to fall - its an old person trait.

[ThaiPauly]

6 hours ago, jimballard said:

I have not been in GB for 10 years but might have to go back soon. from what I am reading and hearing the country is tearing self apart and is busted. when I left I had never heard the word Brexit and nobody I knew was talking about leaving the EU. It seems now that people are not labour or tory they are leave or remain. Some of the stuff I read in the online daily mail is just crazy. WW2 stuff. Seems its going to take a long time to repair.

An old scottish guy I know in Ubon gets wild and angry about Brexit and hates the EU and muslims. I asked him when was the last time he was in GB, 20 years ago he says!!

How things can change in a very short time eh?

 

Just 4 years ago there was no such word as "Brexit" 6 months ago there was nothing called "The Brexit Party" and Boris Johnson was just the Mayor of London who everyone thought was a harmless buffoon!!

 

If only the clock could be turned back and everyone could vote on what they know NOW

[vogie]

1 hour ago, Handsome Gardener said:

You hit the nail on the head - in approx. 20 years the vast majority of misguided uninformed old people that voted for Brexit will be dead and the newer generations can set about repairing the damage.

 

Its just a shame that the wrinklies didn't care about the people coming up behind them, presumably none of them have grandkids, and whose lives they will be damaging. 

 

When they do start to expire expect to see the levels of hatred, xenophobia and bitterness start to fall - its an old person trait.

When they do start to expire expect to see the levels of hatred, xenophobia and bitterness start to fall - its an old person trait.

 

Judging by the responses on Brexit topics you appear to have got that back to front, it seems to be a remainer trait.

 

 

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

When they do start to expire expect to see the levels of hatred, xenophobia and bitterness start to fall - its an old person trait.

Plenty more middle aged people getting ready to replace the old folk that expire.

And they'll be even more bitter because they won't have pensions.

Edited August 7, 2019 by BritManToo

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Plenty more middle aged people getting ready to replace the old folk that expire.

And they'll be even more bitter because they won't have pensions.

You have quoted the wrong poster, I didn't say that britman.

[dode57k]

15 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

I don't have a problem with the replies so far, therefore I don't understand your comment.

 

I wasn't looking for any particular type of comment, just that the conversation be kept civil with valid responses, unfortunately as far as I can tell yours doesn't fit that criteria, why would you say such a thing ? do you have an agenda ? Tell you what dode whatever unless you have something other than trolling in mind keep quiet please.

 

 

Wow, that made me laugh. One of the strangest answers to a comment I've read in ages. Your opening post asked for serious/valid replies and what you seem to have is a load of people arguing. I'm on your side, at least I thought I was until I read your answer. I think you and I have totally misjudged each other.

Just one thing though I won't be told to keep quiet by anyone. IF I break the rules somehow then admins can step in. Suggest you put me on ignore if you don't like what I say. Have you read my two previous post on this thread? Is that not what you're looking for?

[evadgib]

Michael Portillo: The trouble with the Tories is a two part documentary from UK's Ch5 concluding tonight. It is of particular interest to the many non Brits posting on these boards.

HTH

Edited August 7, 2019 by evadgib

[david555]

5 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

How things can change in a very short time eh?

 

Just 4 years ago there was no such word as "Brexit" 6 months ago there was nothing called "The Brexit Party" and Boris Johnson was just the Mayor of London who everyone thought was a harmless buffoon!!

 

If only the clock could be turned back and everyone could vote on what they know NOW

If just turn clock 90 day ahead I think all go quicker …..I wonder if Bojo then still has a P.M. job ….? 

[Golden Triangle]

2 hours ago, dode57k said:

Wow, that made me laugh. One of the strangest answers to a comment I've read in ages. Your opening post asked for serious/valid replies and what you seem to have is a load of people arguing. I'm on your side, at least I thought I was until I read your answer. I think you and I have totally misjudged each other.

Just one thing though I won't be told to keep quiet by anyone. IF I break the rules somehow then admins can step in. Suggest you put me on ignore if you don't like what I say. Have you read my two previous post on this thread? Is that not what you're looking for?

It would seem that I'm guilty as charged, I have read every reply in this thread, what I sometimes don't do is to check who posted what, when I read your comment I took it as a baiting post suggesting I had an ulterior motive or hidden agenda, not so, so I apologise unreservedly. Okay. ????

 

[CG1 Blue]

20 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU is talking to the UK since years. They negotiated a deal.

But now Boris tells the EU: You have to drop the backstop (which both agreed to), otherwise we don't talk to you anymore.

The EU insists on the backstop because it wants to keep the peace. The EU is also happy to remove the backstop if it is not necessary because the UK stays in the custom union.

Which part is so difficult to understand for Boris? If he wants a deal then he should go to Brussel and present his sensible deal. I am sure the EU would be delighted to listen to a sensible deal from Boris. Because it would be the first time that Boris even tries to talk to them without mocking them the next day in some UK tabloid.

"The EU insists on the backstop because it wants to keep the peace."

 

Ok, so tell me this. If we have no deal by 31st October and the UK leaves the EU, what will happen on the Irish border on 1st November? 

 

If you tell me nothing will change, then why do the EU insist on a backstop anyway? 

If you tell me the EU / Ireland will work out a solution to prevent a hard border, then why have they not made this solution public? 

 

I'm curious as to why nobody is asking the EU what they're going to do about the border on 1st November if there is no deal. 

 

[ivor bigun]

I just don't see the EU giving any quarter, they may well have the upper hand here, but other views are saying that without the UK then the EU is stuffed, I personally do not subscribe to that view, will the loss of 39 Billion GBP make a difference to the EU, I honestly do not know, maybe some of you slightly more politically astute members can fill us in, using a neutral standpoint of course.
 
I would rather not see the mods close this thread because of extreme views or bickering members but rather gather views from those that will be affected, me included.

Its not just the 39 billion,its the fact that once we leave Germany and France will have to prop up the rest with their countrys money, for years and years ,and without our money .39 billion is just the start of their problems

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[oldhippy]

10 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

"The EU insists on the backstop because it wants to keep the peace."

 

Ok, so tell me this. If we have no deal by 31st October and the UK leaves the EU, what will happen on the Irish border on 1st November? 

 

If you tell me nothing will change, then why do the EU insist on a backstop anyway? 

If you tell me the EU / Ireland will work out a solution to prevent a hard border, then why have they not made this solution public? 

 

I'm curious as to why nobody is asking the EU what they're going to do about the border on 1st November if there is no deal. 

 

QUOTE:

I'm curious as to why nobody is asking the EU what they're going to do about the border on 1st November if there is no deal. 

 

ANSWER: the EU will treat that border just the same as it treats all it's borders with not members.

Or is the UK once again - now from outside the EU - going to expect preferential treatment?