Details of mandatory health insurance for Non-Imm O-A visas to be announced next week

[john west]

3 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Do you live in Phuket? Phuket is one place that the government incl. The Ministry of Health was thinking of when they got the idea for a mandatory accident insurance at the airport on arrival (just a small fee). The 300 million baht comes from an article in The Nation earlier this year. If you read newspapers and not only threads here,you might learn something about the real world. Learn how to use Google and a new world will open up for you. 

Max69xl
Yes remember seeing this and yes the small fee should be added on for all tourists everywhere, regardless of location and would bring in a lot of revenue,  but how this would be passed on would be interesting indeed.
Also for new applications from home country it is classified as an O/A Retirement and if one stay here than it is called an extension of stay and not a visa.
also and do not understand but have my Thai Family and basically have provided and look after my Dear Thai wife and 2 Granddaughters (well really Daughters as we treat them as such) but cannot get on the Family medical policy and have tried many times and after all most of us provide the vast amount of money needed.
Probably want high seperate insurance and the funding for and surely the 800k or 400k funds required for renewals and one can not touch it can be used for medical insurance or place funds in to another account for this purpose.
Medical insurance is very very hard to get at 69 indeed and yes only for O/A retirement  and the cover required or suggested very high for outpatients and low for inpatient cover.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by john west

[Melbun]

3 hours ago, Melbun said:

No I can't agree. Most tourists have comprehensive insurance. If they get banged up. They are covered. Just consider this _ 2 week millionaires are busy having a good time with "love". Older fellows have a great deal of opportunity go to the hospital for this and that illness, chronic aches and pains, alcoholism, diabetes, arthritis, chronic respiratory disease (bad air quality), bowel problems, investigative procedures, x-rays, colonoscopies, heart medication issues, renewal of doctors prescriptions, sleeping medication and the list goes on. And lets not forget about major operations.

Haha - no good looking sad Flexo - It's the truth mate - no denying it - any way you cut it.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Melbun

[malagateddy]

Howsabout 12000 baht from every one.. paid when you do your annual extensions of stay .. all the money going to the Thai health service ??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ThaiBunny]

17 minutes ago, john west said:

Max69xl
Yes remember seeing this and yes the small fee should be added on for all tourists everywhere, regardless of location and would bring in a lot of revenue,  but how this would be passed on would be interesting indeed.

AFAIK Thailand would be a trailblazer if all tourists had to pay an insurance levy. I can't think of another country where the government attempts to collect an insurance levy on travelers whether or not they have a visa (remembering that many countries are eligible for visa exempt)

Edited August 23, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[john west]

1 minute ago, malagateddy said:

Howsabout 12000 baht from every one.. paid when you do your annual extensions of stay .. all the money going to the Thai health service ??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

And all covered including ex-pats??/ and a medical card!!!

 

[chickenslegs]

5 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

.. all the money going to the Thai health service ??

We can dream.

[Melbun]

9 minutes ago, john west said:

And all covered including ex-pats??/ and a medical card!!!

 

 

12 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Howsabout 12000 baht from every one.. paid when you do your annual extensions of stay .. all the money going to the Thai health service ??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

That's about us$325 ... annually ?? Wouldn't think so. Private insurance in many western countries is in excess of over us$100 / month.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Melbun

[john west]

6 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

AFAIK Thailand would be a trailblazer if all tourists had to pay an insurance levy. I can't think of another country where the government attempts to collect an insurance levy on travelers whether or not they have a visa (remembering that many countries are eligible for visa exempt)

I know Bermuda does and also other Countries have departure tax a bit different I know.

[transam]

55 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

conditions for getting PR or benefits of having PR?  ????

 

First things first....????

[sumrit]

34 minutes ago, Melbun said:

That's about us$325 ... annually ?? Wouldn't think so. Private insurance in many western countries is in excess of over us$100 / month.

That shows just how much of a rip off private insurances are in Western countries are doesn't it.

 

When a foreigner goes to the UK on a LONG TERM VISA, as part of the visa application, they must pay about £200 per year to the UK NHS service to cover the cost of any NHS medical costs they might incur. 

 

That equates to less than 10k baht, or $300 per year (at today's lousy exchange rates). 

[Angry Dragon]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

Conditions for getting,  and add the cost of application, the 3 years unbroken work record on extentions, not visas and 100 per nationality per year and the more than one year wait for a decision etc etc.

Unless you want to invest 10,000,000 baht you most likely would never see again and I believe you still have to do TM30's and re-new everyear and pay extra everytime you leave the country.

 

yes, it was a pain, but i'm glad i did it, as it makes citizenship slightly easier.  FYI they rarely, if ever, hit the 100 per nationality per year limit.  From submitting the application to receiving the blue and red books and completing the process took 18 months.  No need to do TM30s or 90 day reporting.  Insurance is not an issue either, which is turning out to be a big plus.

 

[overherebc]

15 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

yes, it was a pain, but i'm glad i did it, as it makes citizenship slightly easier.  FYI they rarely, if ever, hit the 100 per nationality per year limit.  From submitting the application to receiving the blue and red books and completing the process took 18 months.  No need to do TM30s or 90 day reporting.  Insurance is not an issue either, which is turning out to be a big plus.

 

15 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

yes, it was a pain, but i'm glad i did it, as it makes citizenship slightly easier.  FYI they rarely, if ever, hit the 100 per nationality per year limit.  From submitting the application to receiving the blue and red books and completing the process took 18 months.  No need to do TM30s or 90 day reporting.  Insurance is not an issue either, which is turning out to be a big plus.

 

If you're happy good for you.

I just have the opinion I would never turn my back on my own country.

I will be returning in the next 18 months on a full time basis, always planned to.

Buy a small house and relax there as I'm entitled to do and insurance won't be a problem either.

I also believe anyone who turns their back on UK and becomes a citizen of here should have their right to settle back in UK revoked. ( I still pay tax on my income from UK by the way ). Their right to buy a house in UK should also be revoked and they should be  required to apply for and pay for a visa for visiting UK.

Just my thoughts.

[Melbun]

37 minutes ago, sumrit said:

That shows just how much of a rip off private insurances are in Western countries are doesn't it.

 

When a foreigner goes to the UK on a LONG TERM VISA, as part of the visa application, they must pay about £200 per year to the UK NHS service to cover the cost of any NHS medical costs they might incur. 

 

That equates to less than 10k baht, or $300 per year (at today's lousy exchange rates). 

Yes, truth in that statement. And a lot of people drop out of private insurance because it's perceived to be expensive. But the insurance companies can't be held entirely to blame. What drives the costing of health insurance is the high cost of medicine, purchase of medical equipment (X-ray, CT scanners, MRI etc) "high technology medicine" costing many millions of dollars. And dare I say it - the greedy medical profession.

[Melbun]

8 minutes ago, overherebc said:

If you're happy good for you.

I just have the opinion I would never turn my back on my own country.

I will be returning in the next 18 months on a full time basis, always planned to.

Buy a small house and relax there as I'm entitled to do and insurance won't be a problem either.

I also believe anyone who turns their back on UK and becomes a citizen of here should have their right to settle back in UK revoked. ( I still pay tax on my income from UK by the way ). Their right to buy a house in UK should also be revoked and they should be  required to apply for and pay for a visa for visiting UK.

Just my thoughts.

Wow that's a bit tough. A lot of countries allow dual citizenship with full rights. But as I've stated from the outset - why burn your bridges behind you, and pretend to yourself that the Thai's like you. They don't - and a farang will always be a farang. In their eyes you will never be like them. Nothing wrong with that - it happens in many countries. So why drop anchor in a nation, that will never regard you as one of them. BTW twenty or thirty years ago a foreigner attracted a lot of interest. Not any more.

[emptypockets]

On 8/22/2019 at 3:47 PM, Thaidream said:

We are much closer in thought on this issue- 

 

The actual  premise  behind insurance is that the insurance pool should include everyone of any age and indeed younger people who pay in are part of that pool.  An   a ctuary will  determine that there are more people below the age of 50 than above due to levels of mortality and therefore the pool will pay out more  as people age due to more illness.  But that is the whole point of everyone having insurance.  Coverage is needed at every age level and those who are retired and on a pension have no further earning capacity and live off a mostly fixed pension.

 

If the Thai social security system- the health coverage only was applied to thiose foreigners on one 1 yesar extensions/Visas - the money generated would more than make up for any payout.   The current charge for medical care if one is in the system is 457 Baht per month or approximately 5500 baht per month per person.  If there are 500,000 expats that become eligible (all Nationalities)- the money generated at the end of year 1  would be approximately $92 Million  (US Dollars at about 30 Vaht  to 1).

If 100,000 foreigners or 20% of the total used the Thai Government system each year and spent an average of 100,000 Baht (US3,333.99) that would be around $33 Million out of the original $92 Million.

The result of this - all long stay foreigners have medical coverage; The excess funds in the system can go to improved facilities or services in the Thai medical system which would be a boon for all Thai citizens. They could even tack on a 10% surcharge to the final hospital and this system would be much fairer than the worthless insurance coverge they are proposing.

 

I still believe  Healthcare is a human right- because the right to life is enshrined in all countries constitutions - and  Universal Healthcare as proposed by some members of the Thai medical establishment should not be used to generate profit or make doctors wealthy.

 

 

Your proposal looks good based on your assumed figures. The reality is very different. Expats, being on the whole older people, are likely to need more than an average of 100.000 bahts worth of healthcare.  Consider this : I read that over 75% of the TOTAL australian health care budget is spent on people in the last three months of their life. Staggering numbers. 

Redo you proposal using say 10 million baht average instead of 100,000. Don't forget that once something becomes 'free' people will overuse the service and people will flood into the country.

Supposing the government healthcare is opened to all - in my opinion the visa/ extension of stay would be adjusted to the point that only the very wealthy expats would remain in Thailand.

Be careful what you wish for. 

[overherebc]

2 minutes ago, Melbun said:

Wow that's a bit tough. A lot of countries allow dual citizenship with full rights. But as I've stated from the outset - why burn your bridges behind you, and pretend to yourself that the Thai's like you. They don't - and a farang will always be a farang. In their eyes you will never be like them. Nothing wrong with that - it happens in many countries. So why drop anchor in a nation, that will never regard you as one of them. BTW twenty or thirty years ago a foreigner attracted a lot of interest. Not any more.

Agree, but it's my thought dual citizenship should not be allowed. 

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Your proposal looks good based on your assumed figures. The reality is very different. Expats, being on the whole older people, are likely to need more than an average of 100.000 bahts worth of healthcare.  Consider this : I read that over 75% of the TOTAL australian health care budget is spent on people in the last three months of their life. Staggering numbers. 

Redo you proposal using say 10 million baht average instead of 100,000. Don't forget that once something becomes 'free' people will overuse the service and people will flood into the country.

Supposing the government healthcare is opened to all - in my opinion the visa/ extension of stay would be adjusted to the point that only the very wealthy expats would remain in Thailand.

Be careful what you wish for. 

Your point is well taken- but  the medical care is not free as i proposed-  It will  mean a payment of at least 5500 Baht per year plus a Government surcharge of 10% on the final bill.  As part of the proposal- I would initially lomit this to those married to a Thai and living in Thailand on a one year extension/Visa. I would also include a one year waiting period for the coverage- in other words one pays in advance for a year- then coverage begins.  

A full  year of payments would form the initial pool/ If successful- I would expand it to  Elite Visa holders and also the retired long stay population. My costs were based upon a population of expats totalling 500,000 but there could be as many as 1 million longstayers; married; retired etc which would increase the pool.

 

Figuring the payouts on 10 Million Baht is too high- rember that this type of coverage is for Thai Government hospitals only  not private hospitals.  The costs for government hospitals in Thailand is relatively small compared to the West or private Thai medical care.

 

I think part of the issue is that there are too many peole from all Nationalities that are getting 1 year extensions that do not actually have the required fundsand are using other means to get their extensions.  If these other means were eiminated and the financial requirements kept the same- I doubt there would be an explosion of people coming to Thailand for medical coverage- You still have to pay.  nother possibility is to put a surcharge on the annual fee to stay in the system for medical care- instead of 5500 Baht per year- it could be 10,000 Baht which would double the amount in the medical pool.

 

Someone who is  a trained actuary in Thailand and has access to the real numbers would need to do an analysis to see if this plan is feasible.

 

I am sure of one thing- the proposed premiums being touted  for long stayers insurance is completely unreasonable and  is a lose-lose

[sumrit]

42 minutes ago, Melbun said:

What drives the costing of health insurance is the high cost of medicine, purchase of medical equipment (X-ray, CT scanners, MRI etc) "high technology medicine" costing many millions of dollars. And dare I say it - the greedy medical profession.

So why does it only cost an average of just £200 per year for NHS treatment in the UK but cost a fortune in private hospitals everywhere else??? After all, were always being told the NHS is a first class service.

[overherebc]

55 minutes ago, overherebc said:

If you're happy good for you.

I just have the opinion I would never turn my back on my own country.

I will be returning in the next 18 months on a full time basis, always planned to.

Buy a small house and relax there as I'm entitled to do and insurance won't be a problem either.

I also believe anyone who turns their back on UK and becomes a citizen of here should have their right to settle back in UK revoked. ( I still pay tax on my income from UK by the way ). Their right to buy a house in UK should also be revoked and they should be  required to apply for and pay for a visa for visiting UK.

Just my thoughts.

Seems my post has made some people sad and confused.

Would love to know what's the reasons for the sadness and the confusion.

You think I'm sad and confused or you're sad and confused.

Do explain, please.

[totally thaied up]

34 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

 

I think part of the issue is that there are too many people from all Nationalities that are getting 1 year extensions that do not actually have the required funds and are using other means to get their extensions.  If these other means were eliminated and the financial requirements kept the same- I doubt there would be an explosion of people coming to Thailand for medical coverage- You still have to pay.

Medical is one of the biggest reasons why I want to get out of Thailand. I do not want to be paying a massive insurance bill every year once I hit 60 plus when I have free health cover back at home.

 

If such a scheme was floated, every man and his dog over 50 from other Countries would flood into Thailand, put up the 800K, pay the fees and be covered - yes, that would be a good deal and it would most likely mean people like me that want to leave due to medical reasons, would want to stay with my family. The addional stress this would place on the Thai system would be great. I really do not want to go back to Australia due to my wife but in the end, medical is going to push me out of here. My wife can get PR, come back home with me and be covered under Medicare. What is not to like about that!

 

Hell, being covered under the Thai public system would be great! Still, it will never happen. You only got to look how stressed the Thai public system is without adding a heap of geriatric foreigners with expensive health issues to enter the system. That would be stupid as they just now push us off to expensive private hospitals because we are supposed to have the money to pay.   

 

Nope, will never happen.

Edited August 23, 2019 by totally thaied up

[malagateddy]

Sorry..I meant only treatment in govt hospital and also pay for any prescriptions etc
NOT private hospitals obviously

That's about us$325 ... annually ?? Wouldn't think so. Private insurance in many western countries is in excess of over us$100 / month.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Thaidream]

22 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Nope, will never happen.

It will never happen unless someoine comes to power in Thailand that understand modern ways of looking at issues and actually sits down with the stakeholders and study the issue.

 

Univeresal Healthcare is complex but I firmly believe it can be worked out if people of good faith want it to work.  It maybe that the program is applied to  Expats married to Thais only and a 5-10 phase in period is applied to others.

 

I don't see the proplem of millions relocating to Thailand for medical care in a Thai Government Hospital- Even many Americans. Australians and UK citizens are having trouble coming up with 800K to put in a bank.  As a sidethought the program could be restricted to  those countries named in the O X Visa program.  There are losts of things that can be worked out if one wants to try.

 

It doesn't matter really because no one in the Thai government is going to listen to me or any other foreigner. Hell, I can't even get the US Embassy to reinstate the Embassy letters.

[lkv]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

My costs were based upon a population of expats totalling 500,000 but there could be as many as 1 million longstayers; married; retired etc which would increase the pool.

Not quite.

 

The so called migrant workers are already covered by an existing insurance scheme designed only for them.

 

"As of 2015, migrants pay an annual premium of 2200 baht ($63 USD), and undergo a 600 baht ($15 USD) annual health screening for TB, malaria and AIDS. They then receive a health care card that entitles them to treatment."

 

https://apolitical.co/solution_article/thailand-stops-disease-spreading-by-giving-irregular-migrants-healthcare/

 

The category you are describing falls under Temporary Stay (200,110)

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by lkv

[lamyai3]

On 8/18/2019 at 8:21 AM, rooster59 said:

On Friday, a senior executive from one of the insurance companies involved in the scheme told Thaivisa that the Office of Insurance Commission, the Ministry of Public Health, the Foreign Ministry and Immigration Bureau will announce the insurance requirements for  Non-Immigrant O-A visas on 22 August.

It's Friday night already - where's the flingin' flangin' announcement? 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

So why does it only cost an average of just £200 per year for NHS treatment in the UK but cost a fortune in private hospitals everywhere else??? After all, were always being told the NHS is a first class service.

Because the UK treats peole fairly and without any discrimination- if you legaly emigrate you can buy into the system. Al insurance is a pool and the more in it the cheaper it is overall based upon actuarial  analysis.

 

Thailand, like my country-the USA is interested only in a system that makes money for the private healthcare syste, The reason is that there are private, vested interests that will gain.

 

For profit insurance is interested in only one thing- as much profit as possible.  If one is seriously ill- the for profit insurance industry hopes the person dies as that eliminates  expenditures that drain their profit. And that is the reason- for profit insurance is to be avoided like the plague.  The only solution is for each Government to provide coverage for its citizens and residents.  The chalenge is how to fund it fairly and without favor.  IMO- the UK system founded in the 1930s is the best example of a fair and equitable system that provides quaility care.

[Tounge Thaied]

What does the "A" in "OA" stand for?

[lamyai3]

30 minutes ago, Tounge Thaied said:

What does the "A" in "OA" stand for?

Once the mandatory insurance goes through, it'll stand for ass-whupped. 

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Once the mandatory insurance goes through, it'll stand for ass-whupped. 

I have never seen an explanation if the A in O-A means anything. You have also the O-X visa, which is a 10 years visa, and X = 10.

[Max69xl]

8 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

I still don't hink it is the retiree or expats making the stink of unpaid bills for the most part.

I agree. I can't see them as runners.

They are also quite easy to track down. 

[Max69xl]

9 hours ago, rabas said:

38% of all British who travelled abroad did so without proper insurance. 22% admitted to travelling with no insurance at all.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/955239/holiday-travel-insurance-10-million-tourists-without-proper-cover

You are right, for some strange reason young people think it's overkill to have an insurance. Until they crash their motorbike.