Dream Shattered...

[helicoptor]

I came here with my fiancee and my baby son (11 months) in December 2006. I was offered a fantastic opportunity to head up a contracting company in Pattaya. Which I am presently doing successfully. Since we arrived the company has provided us with a beautiful house, car and a salary that means we did not have to scrimp and save. My fiancee has been to Thailand several times on holiday, to visit her father who lives here with his Thai Wife. The position I hold, although challenging is a dream come true for me, I thoroughly enjoy it.

The reality of moving here struck home with my fiancee shortly after we arrived; she discovered that living here and holidaying here are two different worlds altogether. She simply did not settle, nor did she (In my opinion) make any real effort to integrate into the ex-pat community. This caused tension and resulted in arguments regularly. Pattaya has a seedy side but nevertheless it has enough to offer everyone, a large ex-pat community, social groups etc.

On a daily basis my fiancee complained about missing her family, friends etc and I suggested she get a part-time job in a local school, she did so (as a TA) and was due to start but, on the day she was meant to start, she declared she wanted to go home 'for a few weeks'.

Since going back we have spoken on the phone and she has stated that she does not want to come back. Since returning to the UK she is happier and back in her 'comfort zone', this leaves me torn apart as I am now away from my son, and she has said that I now have to decide what is more important; my career or my family, I feel like I am being emotionally blackmailed.

Before moving to Thailand we sat down and I looked her in the eye and said, 'are you sure you want to do this?', She assured me it was as she was not happy bringing our son up in the UK - it meant me leaving a good job and selling everything in my home so I could rent my house unfurnished.

There is more to this but for now this will do. Apologies for my crap descriptive; I will never make it as a writer.

[helicoptor]

Sorry the sub-title is incorrect, it should read 'Wife to be'

[Ulysses G.]

I don't blame your fiance in the least. I can never figure out why a straight woman would want to live in Thailand.

As for you, stiff upper lip old chap. This is your chance to put all that money to good use. "Helicopter" should be what the girls in the bars are calling you, not just a bunch of old fogeys on the internet!

[cdnvic]

I don't think you are being blackmailed. Your finance did make the move and try it out but couldn't cope. Now she is offering you a simple choice. It's not an easy choice but it's one you have to make.

Sorry things didn't work out.

[samran]

Sorry to hear. My wife and I have had to sit down and figure out where we want to live and where we don't. It ain't easy. All the best with whatever you choose, but what ever happens, family comes first.

[helicoptor]

We agreed before we got here that we would give it a minimum 12 months come hel_l or high water and she has bailed out after 3. Her dad is very angry at her and he summed it up by saying ' the spoilt kid who doesnt want to play anymore and has taken the ball home'

[Pepe']

I'm truly sorry to hear this.

I know just how you feel.

My opinion for the little it's worth is to try to preserve your family at all costs.

It's time to reach deep so you can see clearly.

Good Health,

Pepe'

[Levent]

Sorry to hear about your difficult situation. You said it yourself, there is a big difference between coming here on a holiday and living here on a permanent basis. Moving to a foreign country is not a small thing, and I guess you will never really know whether you like it or not until you are actually there for a few months or so.

It sounds like the choice is yours and you will have to decide what's more important for you. It is a very though choice indeed.

[mpdkorat]

Sorry to here this. I do not know what to advise you. I hope it all works out for all of you.

Edited March 20, 2007 by mpdkorat

[samran]

Her dad is very angry at her and he summed it up by saying ' the spoilt kid who doesnt want to play anymore and has taken the ball home'

Look, you and her dad know her best, but the fact of the matter is that Thailand simply isn't right for some people. Expats get sent out here, and 3 months later they go home as their other halves (usually the wife) find that Thailand doesn't work for them.

Maybe, if she realises (again) that she hates the UK, and if work like you enough, then maybe you can work something out where she lives in BKK and you commute home on the weekends.

[Mobi]

Helicopter,

I am very sorry to hear of your plight.

You will receive a lot of advice here, some good some bad, some total crap. But that's the nature of an open forum.

Some farang women manage to settle into Thailand extremely well, and lead full and happy lives out here. However, for the most part it is a 'graveyard' for farang marriages, and I must have personally known dozens of farangs over the years who have brought their wives with them when they came here to work, only to see their marriages disintegrate before their eyes, and the wives take the next plane home.

There are many reasons for this - some obvious, and some not so obvious.

First and foremost, most western women immediately feel jealous of Thai women - jealous of the figures, their looks, the way they carry themselves, their smiles, and above all the jealous of the way that the farang men fall all over themselves when in their company. It is a fact of life, whether the farang women admit it or not. Even my 20 year old daughter, who is a leuk kreung and very pretty, keeps commenting on the Thai ladies' figures, and how they look so delicate and can wear such lovely clothes compared to her, and believe me my daughter is no slouch in the figure department.

Most farang women, whether they admit it or not, would be worried that their husband is going to stray. If not now, then one day in the future - maybe when the wife has put on a bit of weight and is not as attractive as she used to be. Of course Thai wives also have these worries, but they were born into this culture and are more able to deal with it emotionally.

Then apart from the jealousy and infidelity problems, there are the issues of simply living day to day in an alien culture that is so different the the one back home. For some reason, men often learn to adapt more than women. They are more able to accept the rough and tumble of a third world existence (of course, having a job, and booze and women ease the pain), but farang women are more likely to be sensitive to the culture they left behind and miss the comforts and benefits of 'western civilisation'.

I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know.

You have to decide what is more important for you. Your new life you have made for yourself out here, or a life back home with your fiancée and baby.

In my view, your decision should not be made on the assumption that it'll be best for the baby if you go home, as if you return and put up with an unhappy life, that would not be in the baby's best interests. I made that mistake too many times.

Good luck.

[helicoptor]

Thanks Mobi, as always eloquently put, I always look out for your posts

I think I need to stick to the original plan; 12 months come what may, I will post money home each month, concentrate on the job and who knows maybe I will get sick of Thailand but for now my lot is good, apart from the missing persons

[Trevor]

Bad luck old chap. My poor brother has lived with his British termagent wife for the past 12 years, and that's in England. Only suffers it for the sake of my niece.

You are number one, and your first priority is job and supporting yourself. With success at that women will come to you easily, no matter where. Men are naturally polygamous. You might want to consider making yourself a Thai family if that's where life has taken you. Don't get hung up on just one woman. Plenty more fish in the sea! And in the normal course of events you would still gain access to your son.

Get on with your life in sunny, happy Thailand. Good luck!

[Rimmer]

We have all been there and done that, in my case I was stuck in the desert with not another lady within 100 miles but in retrospect it was the best thing that ever happened to me

[old wanderer]

and she has said that I now have to decide what is more important; my career or my family, I feel like I am being emotionally blackmailed.

To me, a old guy that has gone through far too many wives, the above is the telling statement. You need to consider if your nature is to lead or to follow. Her statement clearly states she feels that she should be empowered to lead and set the standards.

You had a 12 month agreement, and then asses where the future would bring you. She broke it.

I do believe you should stay for the 12 months, and make no bones about she should be good for her word, or where will she break it next or demand next.

Do not make it easy for her, as she has a decision to make, if her small personal discomfort is worth breaking up an family and depriving your child from being with the father.

[soundman]

Bad luck old chap. My poor brother has lived with his British termagent wife for the past 12 years, and that's in England. Only suffers it for the sake of my niece.

You are number one, and your first priority is job and supporting yourself. With success at that women will come to you easily, no matter where. Men are naturally polygamous. You might want to consider making yourself a Thai family if that's where life has taken you. Don't get hung up on just one woman. Plenty more fish in the sea! And in the normal course of events you would still gain access to your son.

Get on with your life in sunny, happy Thailand. Good luck!

I think you are jumping the gun a little bit. Maybe helicopter is in a good marriage (that has a few hurdles being thrown in, what marriage doesn't?), & doesn't want to explore other options.......

Soundman.

[buriramboy]

Obviously with a child being involved it makes your decision harder, but in my opinion by her giving you that untimatum it shows her commitment (or lack of) towards you, and all i can say anyone gave me an ultimatum like that my decision would not come down favourably on their side.

BB

[November Rain]

First of all, I'd like to take issue with a couple of things previous posters have said - and I feel I am eminently qualified to do so, as I am one of the farang women they are generalising about!

UG - what on earth are you on about? You can't imagine why any straight farang woman would want to come here? Well, as a straight farang woman, shall I enlighten you? Pretty much the same reasons as you blokes, apart from the girls - and some of us have even gone so far as to <gasp> have relationships with Thai blokes as well. Talk about equal opportunities...

Mobi d'ark - Western women immediately feel jealous of Thai women whether they admit it or not? Really? And I guess you'd know being a Western woman? Oh, sorry, you're not, are you? I'm not jealous of Thai women. I'd like to get nice shoes to fit, but other than that I couldn't give a toss whether they are more petite than me, prettier than me, have better figures than me (subjective - Reubens would have preferred my figure, but even I would have been too skinny for him!) I've seen some of the blokes some of them end up with - I can assure you I'm certainly not jealous of that!

Please guys, don't generalise, esp when you don't know what you're talking about.

Back on topic, Helicoptor, I don't know your situation. It does sound to me that your fiancee didn't give it a fair try, three months isn't enough time IMO to adapt to a whole new lifestyle. However, a lot of people, particularly women do find it hard & very scary to break out of their comfort zone/rut & just can't handle the pressure of a completely new & different life. When I moved to LoS a female friend came with me & it was exactly the same story, she made no real effort to get a job, but moaned when they didn't fall in her lap, she didn't try to adapt & (like your fiancee) went back to UK within a few months.

I don't think she'll change her mind, from what you say, so you do need to decide what is most important to you. It's very sad that access to your child is caught up in this, but from what you've said, it looks like you're at stalemate at the moment. I think the ball is firmly in your court, but your decision has to be based on what you want. If you go back solely for her, you'll resent her & eventually your relationship will break down anyway. Good luck.

[Gary A]

Many of us, me included have lost our children to a hateful wife. Perhaps you're lucky that it happened now while at least you have a decent job. I won't burden anyone with a farang ex-wife story but believe me I was wronged BIG time.

[lannarebirth]

Assuning that the "There is more to this but for now this will do." part isn't any material breach of your girlfriends trust, by you, then I'd say she has done you wrong. One can't stay with a woman who breaks her word and arbitrarily decides what will be the new course of your life. This won't be the last time either IMO. I'm sorry about the boy, but maybe she'll decide in another 3 months she can't handle being a mother eiither.

[Mobi]

Mobi d'ark - Western women immediately feel jealous of Thai women whether they admit it or not? Really? And I guess you'd know being a Western woman? Oh, sorry, you're not, are you? I'm not jealous of Thai women. I'd like to get nice shoes to fit, but other than that I couldn't give a toss whether they are more petite than me, prettier than me, have better figures than me (subjective - Reubens would have preferred my figure, but even I would have been too skinny for him!) I've seen some of the blokes some of them end up with - I can assure you I'm certainly not jealous of that!

MY sincere apologies.

I should have said" MOST western women..."

Clearly you are one of the (several?) exceptions the proves the rule.

Good for you

Let's hope you're not in denial (only joking )

I did say that some farang women live happy and full lives out here, and you obviously fit into that category. May you enjoy many happy years in the LOS.

PS No, I'm not a western woman, but I have known a few who have been honest enough to admit what have I stated is true, in their case anyway.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Mobi D'Ark

[Chantal]

First and foremost, most western women immediately feel jealous of Thai women - jealous of the figures, their looks, the way they carry themselves, their smiles, and above all the jealous of the way that the farang men fall all over themselves when in their company. It is a fact of life, whether the farang women admit it or not. Even my 20 year old daughter, who is a leuk kreung and very pretty, keeps commenting on the Thai ladies' figures, and how they look so delicate and can wear such lovely clothes compared to her, and believe me my daughter is no slouch in the figure department.

Most farang women, whether they admit it or not, would be worried that their husband is going to stray. If not now, then one day in the future - maybe when the wife has put on a bit of weight and is not as attractive as she used to be. Of course Thai wives also have these worries, but they were born into this culture and are more able to deal with it emotionally

Good luck.

Surprise surprise! Never felt jealous of a Thai woman in my life. Not of their figures, looks nor the way they carry themselves, their smiles or the way that Farang men fall over themselves as you say. Why?

[wamberal]

The expatriate life is not for everybody, that's for sure. In an off-shore working life of about 20 years (Hong Kong and Thailand) I have seen more than a fair share of relationship problems amongst expatriate families.

Circumstances alter cases. The fiancee is entitled to decide after three months that she cannot stand living in Thailand. Until you try the expat life, it is impossible to predict how it will go for you.

My own (Thai) wife is not willing to go back to live in Thailand. I can easily understand a non-Thai woman deciding pretty quickly that the place is not for her.

[Chantal]

I don't blame your fiance in the least. I can never figure out why a straight woman would want to live in Thailand.

Unbelievable!

[Casanundra]

You know I read this and think about all of the guys here in LOS who have tales of woe after putting their career, life and dreams on hold in the name of supporting their girlfriend or wife or fiancé, only to then find that at some point she ran off into the sunset with the next best thing that came into her life.

For balance, 'yes' I agree men do this on women also and leave them in the lurch but we are talking about a bloke here and about his fiance running off back home so I'll keep it on topic by discussing this aspect.

So to continue, if we look back to the West we now can see a country full of oppressed men who gave it their all to the girlfriend, wife and family only for 'some' of these same girlfriends and wives to move on to pastures new whilst taking her former man to the cleaners along the way. He ends up left with nothing while she ends up licking the cream off her paws.

From what I see here, you now have a choice.

Do you want to spend the rest of your life protesting outside parliament wearing your batman suit demanding equal rights for fathers as the one way demands come in for you to support 'her' child that 'you' created.

Do you want to set the ground rules whereby you end up running after the fiancé every time she wants her own way with you chasing her like some mad dog after the bumper on a car time after time after time. Believe me it will never end.

Or do you want to live your life?

In this life, no one owes anyone anything and first and foremost you have to think about yourself and to look after number one first. It's a selfish approach I know but no one else will look out for you. If your fiancé has jacked it in after 3 months into a 1 year posting then I would suggest that she isn't in it for the long run anyway and you should cut your losses while you are ahead. Ok so your fiancé has jacked it in and took the child you had 'together' back with her to Blighty. This was 'her' choice to make and not 'yours' to simply accept or agree to.

I also notice that you seem to mention that it's only your child that you miss here and that no mention of missing the fiancé has been made. Maybe this is an oversight but also maybe it's a telling tale in it's own right about the state of your relationship.

Only you know what's best for the both of you but she has made her choice and you have a career and life plan to still forge ahead with. My recommendation would be to not compromise on any of it, because if you do, then you could be one of those sitting on a bar stool in Pattaya in 30 years time nursing a beer and complaining about how life has been cruel to you.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Casanundra

[Ulysses G.]

First of all, I'd like to take issue with a couple of things previous posters have said - and I feel I am eminently qualified to do so, as I am one of the farang women they are generalising about!

UG - what on earth are you on about? You can't imagine why any straight farang woman would want to come here? Well, as a straight farang woman, shall I enlighten you? Pretty much the same reasons as you blokes, apart from the girls...

What else is left?

[November Rain]

Ha ha! , UG

[helicoptor]

her father, my boss, same person (just to put a spin on it)

[jetjock]

Since going back we have spoken on the phone and she has stated that she does not want to come back. Since returning to the UK she is happier and back in her 'comfort zone', this leaves me torn apart as I am now away from my son, and she has said that I now have to decide what is more important; my career or my family, I feel like I am being emotionally blackmailed.

The fact that you have to even think twice about a decision ( whether fair or not !) between your career and your baby son makes me think that you should have given more thought before you brought a child into the world. Hope you make the correct decision so your son has a real father.

[longway]

my 2 cents:

personally i think shes being extremely selfish. she put herself above you and your son. as to what you should do, no idea. if it was me i would be tempted to forget about her for at least a month or 2, but as you guys have a son...

well good luck whatever you decide.