My marriage Extension story part 1 and 2

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, seajae said:

Marriage extension visa is supposed to be a total or 400,000 a year, does not have to be  40,000 a month, it even states this in the update they did on the new requirements. As long as it adds up to 400,000 over the 12 month period it is supposed to be ok, they really need to get the IO's to study the regulations and not make up their own

No, it's either 400K deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, 

OR

40K per month transferred from overseas into a Thai bank.

 

Obviously this year, proof of 12 monthly transfers may not be possible, especially as the new order didn't reach most offices until January, hence the 'leniency' notice.

 

The 400K funds can be immediately withdrawn after the extension is approved.

The 40K monthly transfers can immediately be used.

 

I posted in another thread that I've personally witnessed clear discrimination towards US, UK and Australians using the income method because it causes more work for the IO's, blaming our Embassies for ceasing the Income letters.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

The IO in Khampaeng Phet simply ignored that.

 

So, what to do next?

 

Ignore it and dance the dance or complain to the boss and get subtly black marked?

Was your application accepted Bill, now pending approval, or was it denied.

You didn't make that clear.

[sumrit]

6 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

For the very first application the requirement is for funds deposit in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, or 2 x monthly overseas transfers.

If you've had an extension in the past that has now lapsed then get a new single entry non O and apply for an extension using that new non O, due to the lapsed period, you can't show twelve months of transfers. So is that extension application using the new non O considered a first application so only requiring two months of monthly overseas transfers?

[UKresonant]

9 hours ago, seajae said:

Marriage extension visa is supposed to be a total or 400,000 a year, does not have to be  40,000 a month, it even states this in the update they did on the new requirements. As long as it adds up to 400,000 over the 12 month period it is supposed to be ok, they really need to get the IO's to study the regulations and not make up their own

That is not how I understand the regulation.

A. I understood that you have to show an average income of 40,000THB per month, which would be a total of 480,000THB for 12 months.

B. Aus, UK, USA, and Danish (perhaps) are discriminated against as they have to additionally demonstrate an in-month transfer from "overseas" x12 to exceed 40,000THB. 

 

Just now I'm experimenting with sending monthly transfers of GBP equivalent to meet the requirements of "A", but it would not currently attain the requirement of "B", unless the £ pound appreciates by about 8% against the Baht ????. This is just a fall back position, in case circumstances pushed me in to applying for an extension, at some point in the future.

It would be good if the regs. work the way you have described, in a time of need.

 

Pity there is no combination method with the marriage/family extension, that would probably give an incentive to actually keep a bit more in the bank, to avoid fx swing effect. 

The OPs report does not inspire any confidence in the system, one hicup somewhere, outwith your control, and "B" may be disrupted ????️.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, UKresonant said:

A. I understood that you have to show an average income of 40,000THB per month,

There is no average.

It's a minimum of 40,000 baht per month.

 

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, sumrit said:

If you've had an extension in the past that has now lapsed then get a new single entry non O and apply for an extension using that new non O, due to the lapsed period, you can't show twelve months of transfers. So is that extension application using the new non O considered a first application so only requiring two months of monthly overseas transfers?

I know a few who have done exactly that this year. even Immigration advising them to do so.

However, if you tried to circumvent the rules by repeatedly doing that each year, I think the IO's would see through your actions, unless you had a valid reason, such as having to return home in an emergency situation and therefore out of the Country at the time of renewal date.

 

This year leniency was supposed to be applied due to the cessation of Embassy Income letters for certain nationalities, but from 2020 only proof of 12 monthly transfers will suffice (first time applicants excluded).

 

It will undoubtable be at the discretion of the IO what constitutes a first time applicant from next year.

Unless an obvious first time applicant, it will probably be dealt with case by case, but I seriously doubt you'd be able to repeat each year.

[scotsman]

10 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

No, it's either 400K deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, 

OR

40K per month transferred from overseas into a Thai bank.

 

Obviously this year, proof of 12 monthly transfers may not be possible, especially as the new order didn't reach most offices until January, hence the 'leniency' notice.

 

The 400K funds can be immediately withdrawn after the extension is approved.

The 40K monthly transfers can immediately be used.

 

I posted in another thread that I've personally witnessed clear discrimination towards US, UK and Australians using the income method because it causes more work for the IO's, blaming our Embassies for ceasing the Income letters.

I have to agree with you on this as the main boss at pattaya immigration was telling me and my wife that the UK had not looked after there people he was not talking very well about all off us including the USA and Australia.  This man does not want to know about the January new order or leniency he just want's us to go away. 

When I return in a years time with all my paperwork in order will my last extension that I am going to get with a agent, be the next problem for them to say no to my request to change to a marriage extension if I am going down the same route with 12 x 40k ?    We shall see.

 

Regards

Scotsman

[sumrit]

38 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

There is no average.

It's a minimum of 40,000 baht per month.

 

If there is no 'average' why is the word specifically used in the wording?

 

Quote

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual
income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month 

 

[amykat]

19 hours ago, scotsman said:

Just to update everyone we did not need any witness and we had to sign all documents.

 

Now today after we went to kasikorn bank we received 2 copy's of the transaction we also updated the Bangkok bank letter and updated passbook on the way.

We arrived at immigration at 11pm it was empty just one couple in front of us, When we sat down with the boss lady she went over all the doc again and I showed her the Kasikorn receipts and also again the transverwise pdf this time she wanted a copy of the transferwise one so I went and got it. 

 

Then she asked me in very bad English about why I am changing from Retirement extension to Marrage one and she pointed to one of my transfers that was for 65k I told her that was a one off transfer to pay a bill in Thailand. I had to explain to her that i got my retirement one because I had a UK pension letter. 

Now I can't get that letter and the pound is now down to 37 so I have to change to marrage she was not happy with my answer.  She tried to talk Thai with my wife about this but all my wife knows is what I tell her and she told her in Thai I have to change visa because of no UK pension letter and I don't have 65k a month pension now as the baht is 37. 

 

Well now she sorts out all the documents again and tells me in English a lot of something but I just could not understand her so I was a little abrupt and said in Thai I don't understand what you are saying. 

So now she collects all the paper work and tells us to follow her into the big boss room where 2 Thai officers were there one is the boss of retirement desk seen him before the other one behind the desk I have not seen before. 

 

She spoke to him and she pointed to a page with a yellow line through it and then she went away outside back to her desk.

The boss man tells me and my wife that I nearly got it right but this time we have to say no as you can see in your Bangkok Statements on the first 6 months ones that I got from my bank.  He points out the one they highlighted in yellow the date was the 10.01.2018 and I had transferred 37k he said it should be 40k I never counted that transfer as being part of my extension as it is to old.

 

Now I and my wife pointed out to him that my last visa was with a pension letter from the UK and on Jan 2019 there was a police order to put 65k or 40k into a Thai bank every month but that there should be a grace period,  He ask my wife in Thai were she had seen this and my wife said on the internet but he dismissed her and told me in English that the starting date was from 1st jan 2018 and I did not have 40k on that date I told him I have 12 times 40k from sep 2018 up to this date so you want more?  He said you just had to get the first one right on his date 1st of jan 2018 Don't ask me why. 

 

There is nothing we can say or do that will make him wrong and us right so we said we would go outside Thailand and get a new category o visa and start again.

He said if you can get 400k when you come back with the new visa I will give you the one year so we left it at that.

 

Now after 20 years living here with my wife I have never been refused a extension this will be my first time on the back of a lie from the boss with his interpretation only 

Well I am not going to go for a new visa outside Thailand I am going to a agent to get this one renewed I will update later but for now they don't want to do the paperwork for this type of extension.

 

Regards

Scotsman            

Sorry that happened to you.  They are just stealing your money.  I wonder if they want people to start offering them bribes rather than going to agents for small things like this??  Did you ever consider asking him if there was some way to help you??

[scotsman]

28 minutes ago, amykat said:

Sorry that happened to you.  They are just stealing your money.  I wonder if they want people to start offering them bribes rather than going to agents for small things like this??  Did you ever consider asking him if there was some way to help you??

Hi thank you for your post it was 3 days of hell running around on a motorbike getting documents that they knew did not matter as they were never going to pass on our application.  The boss man did say that if went to a Savannakhet and applied for a new category O visa , when we come back and in the last 30 days of the 90 after putting 400k in the bank for 2 months he would pass on our application. So we said OK yes we will do that as I just wanted to get out of there before I lost it big time. My wife was asked by the lady boss what we were doing before we left my wife told her we are off to Savanakhet and she laughed.  We had no intention of going there as the visa agent is a better way of fixing the problem.  

 

Regards 

Scotsman  

[billd766]

11 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Was your application accepted Bill, now pending approval, or was it denied.

You didn't make that clear.

Sorry, memory dump again. It's an age thing.

 

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

 

 

 

My application is pending approval from CM Immigration which is where Khampaeng Phet IO comes under.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

If there is no 'average' why is the word specifically used in the wording?

 

 

Probably because that is what they want to see. I suspect that most IO offices don't understand the meaning of the word "average" and want to see a minimum 40,000 baht per month.

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, seajae said:

Marriage extension visa is supposed to be a total or 400,000 a year, does not have to be  40,000 a month, it even states this in the update they did on the new requirements. As long as it adds up to 400,000 over the 12 month period it is supposed to be ok, they really need to get the IO's to study the regulations and not make up their own

Sure? Last document I read suggested 400,000 in the bank for 2 months OR income of 40,000 baht.

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, sumrit said:

If there is no 'average' why is the word specifically used in the wording?

I think your misunderstanding clause 6 of order 327/2557.

Quote

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual
income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month 

The key words being no less than 40K per month.

 

You could have 10 monthly transfers of 45K

1 month transfer of 42K

1 month transfer of 38K.

The annual monthly average would be 44.166, but that wouldn't qualify as one month fell below the minimum monthly requirement of no less than 40K per month.

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

Probably because that is what they want to see. I suspect that most IO offices don't understand the meaning of the word "average" and want to see a minimum 40,000 baht per month.

I watched an IO check a bank statement showing only 12 monthly overseas transfers of 67K. (retirement)

He then entered each month of 67K into a calculator and divided by 12 to get (drumroll) yes, 67K, then exclaimed with a smile 'ok, it's enough'.

And they claim checking the monthly income method causes them extra work.

 

It's unnecessary when every monthly transfer meets the minimum requirement, but I suppose small things amuse small minds.

[rickudon]

To be honest, with the number of potential issues with the monthly transfer method I am SO happy that back in October last year I decided on going the 400,000 baht route. I didn't have the money readily available in cash, but I was in the UK so borrowed it at a  ridiculously low interest rate of 3% (about what my investments return). This is now in Thailand so no headaches in future (I hope). With falling exchange rates and better interest rates here (just seen my UK ISA has cut it's rate to 0.8%) I could even make a profit …

 

This option is not maybe possible for all Brits, but is worth considering if possible and a useful hedge against Brexit screwing up monthly pension transfers exchange rates (as at least one person has already mentioned).

 

 

 

[amykat]

6 hours ago, scotsman said:

Hi thank you for your post it was 3 days of hell running around on a motorbike getting documents that they knew did not matter as they were never going to pass on our application.  The boss man did say that if went to a Savannakhet and applied for a new category O visa , when we come back and in the last 30 days of the 90 after putting 400k in the bank for 2 months he would pass on our application. So we said OK yes we will do that as I just wanted to get out of there before I lost it big time. My wife was asked by the lady boss what we were doing before we left my wife told her we are off to Savanakhet and she laughed.  We had no intention of going there as the visa agent is a better way of fixing the problem.  

 

Regards 

Scotsman  

Well, what I mean by asking for help, is there is a way to get a discussion about a bribe going.  The officer is not going to demand it straight out.  But it might be cheaper than 25k to an agent.  The boss has some discretion and can let this go, the agent forwards money to do that.  Can I pay a fine to overlook this problem this time because I am sick and can’t travel??  Blah blah??  Have wife call and ask??  

 

So maybe for 2000 baht, or I don’t know the price, he will let it go?  Some Thai people know how to start these discussions, some Westerners do too, try asking your wife or if you have a male friend who is better at those things.  I’ve been wondering if many people could make these small problems go away, if immigration wants more corruption, is welcoming it, but we are too stupid to get it??

 

I think that is why the boss lady followed up, what are you going to do, and then laughed at your answer ...like you are too stupid to offer them some money and do all that work and pay more??  Think about it.

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, amykat said:

Well, what I mean by asking for help, is there is a way to get a discussion about a bribe going.  The officer is not going to demand it straight out.  But it might be cheaper than 25k to an agent.  The boss has some discretion and can let this go, the agent forwards money to do that.  Can I pay a fine to overlook this problem this time because I am sick and can’t travel??  Blah blah??  Have wife call and ask??  

 

So maybe for 2000 baht, or I don’t know the price, he will let it go?  Some Thai people know how to start these discussions, some Westerners do too, try asking your wife or if you have a male friend who is better at those things.  I’ve been wondering if many people could make these small problems go away, if immigration wants more corruption, is welcoming it, but we are too stupid to get it??

 

I think that is why the boss lady followed up, what are you going to do, and then laughed at your answer ...like you are too stupid to offer them some money and do all that work and pay more??  Think about it.

I have seen a couple of posts on here of Jomtien immigration suggesting just that to people whose application has been turned down. Might be worth asking them if they'd like a donation to the benevolent fund.

[scotsman]

2 hours ago, amykat said:

Well, what I mean by asking for help, is there is a way to get a discussion about a bribe going.  The officer is not going to demand it straight out.  But it might be cheaper than 25k to an agent.  The boss has some discretion and can let this go, the agent forwards money to do that.  Can I pay a fine to overlook this problem this time because I am sick and can’t travel??  Blah blah??  Have wife call and ask??  

 

So maybe for 2000 baht, or I don’t know the price, he will let it go?  Some Thai people know how to start these discussions, some Westerners do too, try asking your wife or if you have a male friend who is better at those things.  I’ve been wondering if many people could make these small problems go away, if immigration wants more corruption, is welcoming it, but we are too stupid to get it??

 

I think that is why the boss lady followed up, what are you going to do, and then laughed at your answer ...like you are too stupid to offer them some money and do all that work and pay more??  Think about it.

I know were you are coming from but my wife and I don't want to break the law with a bribe to a police officer.  I have lived here for 20 years I know how the game is played and I have always got my extension using the pension letter from the UK but when it was removed I also had a good idea that we would have to put 40k in the bank from the UK for as many months as we could I managed 11. 

The police order in Jan 2019 was for all immigration offices to show a grace period now this office and its boss man don't want to follow that order then I have only 2 choices pick up the phone and call the help line and report him not a good idea and they know it.  The 2nd option was to go to a visa agent and its a lot less than 25 k I can assure you.

Sorry don't understand about a fine as I have done nothing wrong.  My wife and I don't care what this boss lady thinks she is well known to me she does not like doing the paperwork for this extension. 

I will go back to her again and again next year with all my paperwork in order with 12 transfers and see if she can refuse me again and for what reason. 

The visa agent is only a last resort for me.

Regards 

Scotsman  

[amykat]

Well okay, I understand.  What I meant about the fine, was that is code for suggesting that you pay some money without being so direct.  As I understand, using an agent is that one is participating in corruption, just that way it benefits even more people, the business and the part of your money that is used to bribe immigration.  So you can try to leave the agent out?  But it gives you a buffer zone to make you feel more comfortable, and happy to hear it is less than 25k, the number I have been hearing.

[gunderhill]

On 8/29/2019 at 4:19 PM, scotsman said:

Just to update everyone we did not need any witness and we had to sign all documents.

 

Now today after we went to kasikorn bank we received 2 copy's of the transaction we also updated the Bangkok bank letter and updated passbook on the way.

We arrived at immigration at 11pm it was empty just one couple in front of us, When we sat down with the boss lady she went over all the doc again and I showed her the Kasikorn receipts and also again the transverwise pdf this time she wanted a copy of the transferwise one so I went and got it. 

 

Then she asked me in very bad English about why I am changing from Retirement extension to Marrage one and she pointed to one of my transfers that was for 65k I told her that was a one off transfer to pay a bill in Thailand. I had to explain to her that i got my retirement one because I had a UK pension letter. 

Now I can't get that letter and the pound is now down to 37 so I have to change to marrage she was not happy with my answer.  She tried to talk Thai with my wife about this but all my wife knows is what I tell her and she told her in Thai I have to change visa because of no UK pension letter and I don't have 65k a month pension now as the baht is 37. 

 

Well now she sorts out all the documents again and tells me in English a lot of something but I just could not understand her so I was a little abrupt and said in Thai I don't understand what you are saying. 

So now she collects all the paper work and tells us to follow her into the big boss room where 2 Thai officers were there one is the boss of retirement desk seen him before the other one behind the desk I have not seen before. 

 

She spoke to him and she pointed to a page with a yellow line through it and then she went away outside back to her desk.

The boss man tells me and my wife that I nearly got it right but this time we have to say no as you can see in your Bangkok Statements on the first 6 months ones that I got from my bank.  He points out the one they highlighted in yellow the date was the 10.01.2018 and I had transferred 37k he said it should be 40k I never counted that transfer as being part of my extension as it is to old.

 

Now I and my wife pointed out to him that my last visa was with a pension letter from the UK and on Jan 2019 there was a police order to put 65k or 40k into a Thai bank every month but that there should be a grace period,  He ask my wife in Thai were she had seen this and my wife said on the internet but he dismissed her and told me in English that the starting date was from 1st jan 2018 and I did not have 40k on that date I told him I have 12 times 40k from sep 2018 up to this date so you want more?  He said you just had to get the first one right on his date 1st of jan 2018 Don't ask me why. 

 

There is nothing we can say or do that will make him wrong and us right so we said we would go outside Thailand and get a new category o visa and start again.

He said if you can get 400k when you come back with the new visa I will give you the one year so we left it at that.

 

Now after 20 years living here with my wife I have never been refused a extension this will be my first time on the back of a lie from the boss with his interpretation only 

Well I am not going to go for a new visa outside Thailand I am going to a agent to get this one renewed I will update later but for now they don't want to do the paperwork for this type of extension.

 

Regards

Scotsman            

Absolutely disgraceful behaviour  by  immigration.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, amykat said:

Well okay, I understand.  What I meant about the fine, was that is code for suggesting that you pay some money without being so direct.  As I understand, using an agent is that one is participating in corruption, just that way it benefits even more people, the business and the part of your money that is used to bribe immigration.  So you can try to leave the agent out?  But it gives you a buffer zone to make you feel more comfortable, and happy to hear it is less than 25k, the number I have been hearing.

I don't think it's possible to obtain a marriage extension through an agent, or personally, simply due to the fact the IO dealing with the application can't approve it on the day (unlike a retirement extension) as it has to be approved at regional level by a higher ranking officer.

[Tanoshi]

@scotsman

I assume your going to obtain a Non Imm O ME as the alternative.

[sunnyboy2018]

On 8/28/2019 at 8:06 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

When I was doing extension the bank letter was valid for a week. Has that changed?

Only bank book update had to be done same day.

 

If I can make a suggestion, retirement extension much easier if one is old enough.

Yes as soon as my married become eligible for a retirement extension they go for it.

[scotsman]

9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

@scotsman

I assume your going to obtain a Non Imm O ME as the alternative.

No I will probable get a new extension Based on Retirement as my last one was with the pension letter from the UK, the Agent can't get a Marriage one as that has to be approved in Bangkok for our area.   

[jesimps]

Seems to me that the big problem has gone now from not being able to get the embassy letter for your extension based on monthly income to not being able to prove that your transfers came from abroad. It appears that you either have to make a swift transfer which is expensive over the 12 months, or rely on TransferWise and hope that all the transfers are made direct to Bangkok Bank and don't come via TMB or Kasikorn. My plans were ruined by my July transfer going via Kasikorn, luckily I had a contingency plan in place by having 400k in the bank so I could reluctantly opt for a married extension. It wouldn't take much on the part of TI to show a little latitude in the case of one or two transfers not coming direct to BBL and accepting a printout of the TransferWise dispatch notice. But there again, less people would be forced into the hands of the agents in that case. It's all about money in the long run.

Edited September 1, 2019 by jesimps

[scotsman]

5 hours ago, jesimps said:

Seems to me that the big problem has gone now from not being able to get the embassy letter for your extension based on monthly income to not being able to prove that your transfers came from abroad. It appears that you either have to make a swift transfer which is expensive over the 12 months, or rely on TransferWise and hope that all the transfers are made direct to Bangkok Bank and don't come via TMB or Kasikorn. My plans were ruined by my July transfer going via Kasikorn, luckily I had a contingency plan in place by having 400k in the bank so I could reluctantly opt for a married extension. It wouldn't take much on the part of TI to show a little latitude in the case of one or two transfers not coming direct to BBL and accepting a printout of the TransferWise dispatch notice. But there again, less people would be forced into the hands of the agents in that case. It's all about money in the long run.

There was no problem with the transfers from Kasikorn as I was able to get a receipt from there international dept that showed it came from outside Thailand. I can see why this would be a problem for a lot of people if the closest international dept branch was very far away.

As a lot people have said including a friend of mine who lives in Udon Thani they applied for the same extension as me with the same method monthly transfers of 40k. 

There immigration office obeyed the Jan 2019 order to give a grace period with some people only having 8 or less transfers and managed to get there extension while the jomtien immigration office did not.

I hope that transferwise has now fixed this problem and the next 12 transfers are OK for next year but the big Question is what will they come up with in Jomtien to refuse to pass on my application to Bangkok?  If the boss man said I was nearly there with 11 surely I would would be there with 12 we shall see.   

I agree it's all about the money but I am a Scotsman we are famous for being tight so I don't want to give them the money so I will just keep fighting with my 12 months transfers they fooled me this time but I hope they can't do it next time. 

Regards 

Scotsman