Notes on the "pink card"

[KhunBENQ]

In a separate thread there are different opinions what is written on the "pink card" that is (also) issued to expats since a while.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1121651-strange-pink-card-experience

Can someone provide an accurate translation?

 

Mine is from 2016 and the backside looks like this:

(there seem to be different versions)

 

[jackdd]

1. This is not a Thai citizen ID card

2. You have to carry this card with you at all times

3. The person who got this card is forbidden to leave the area which issued the card(*)

except if this person has a personal identification certificate(**) or

a person who got a permit

 

(*) the card is issued by the amphoe, so imho this means forbidden to leave the amphoe

(**) i think this means passport

 

On other versions of this card which i saw on Google the part which i marked green is missing

[KhunBENQ]

24 minutes ago, jackdd said:

except if this person has a personal identification certificate(**)

Thanks. I am so happy that I may leave the district

[timendres]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

1. This is not a Thai citizen ID card

2. You have to carry this card with you at all times

3. The person who got this card is forbidden to leave the area which issued the card(*)

except if this person has a personal identification certificate(**) or

a person who got a permit

 

(*) the card is issued by the amphoe, so imho this means forbidden to leave the amphoe

(**) i think this means passport

 

On other versions of this card which i saw on Google the part which i marked green is missing

My Thai employee confirms that your command of written Thai is excellent. And that the green text you highlighted would imply a passport.

[tgeezer]

On 9/5/2019 at 5:18 AM, jackdd said:

1. This is not a Thai citizen ID card

2. You have to carry this card with you at all times

3. The person who got this card is forbidden to leave the area which issued the card(*)

except if this person has a personal identification certificate(**) or

a person who got a permit

 

(*) the card is issued by the amphoe, so imho this means forbidden to leave the amphoe

(**) i think this means passport

 

On other versions of this card which i saw on Google the part which i marked green is missing

I see that your translation of ผู้มีชื่อในบัตร you have this card. How does that look if you translate it back into Thai, would there be  บัตรนี้ ?

มีชื่อในบัตร defines the subject in the same way as ผู้มีชื่อเสียง is defined so I feel that we should translate it similarly. 

‘The named person’. 

Any ideas? 

 

 

 

[jackdd]

3 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I see that your translation of ผู้มีชื่อในบัตร you have this card. How does that look if you translate it back into Thai, would there be  บัตรนี้ ?

มีชื่อในบัตร defines the subject in the same way as ผู้มีชื่อเสียง is defined so I feel that we should translate it similarly. 

‘The named person’. 

Any ideas?

My translation is not perfect, i just tried to give a meaningful translation, trying to stick close to the Thai wording.

'The named person' is probably the better translation.

 

According to my girlfriend ผู้มีชื่อในบัตรนี้ would not be wrong, but it would sound strange, because it's written on the card and this alone shows that it is about "this" card. On the other hand, if we would skip "this" in the english sentence, it would sound strange. This is just how the languages are.

Thai language likes to skip on words which are deemed not necessary (but would sometimes make understanding easier), but on the other hand they also like to add useless stuff like "na"

They could have written ผู้ซึ่งมีชื่อในบัตร or ผู้ที่มีชื่อในบัตร, but somehow they didn't use it in this line. Interestingly in the line below they use ผู้ซึ่ง and in the last line they use ผู้ที่, i have no idea if there is any difference between these three, for me they all mean "the person who ..."

 

Another word which they like to skip (which i think is not gramatically wrong if you put it there, but it makes it sound strange), is เป็น in a sentence like "you are beautiful". I tend to say คุณเป็นสวย, because i'm used to this composition from English and German, but a Thai would say คุณสวย. Same with the sentence above, i would add either ซึ่ง or ที่ behind ผู้, because without one of them it feels strange to me.

[tgeezer]

There are as many ways to interpret language as there are people trying it. 

A thai perspective is useful but often individual, in my experience they can be persuaded of almost anything when it comes to language.  The book ไวยากรณ์ by นววรรน พันธุเมธา which I have quoted before admits this but still tries to teach students at Chula. how to speak grammatically, an oxymoron if ever there was one! 

 

I would point out that it is possible to say that สวย is a verb of condition because it directly follows the subject, there is no เป็น missing.  If compared with the standard example of เป็น ; เขาเป็นครู you can see that เขาเป็นสวย cannot be.  You could also say that because สวย is a permanent condition it should not be a verb in the same way as โกรธ being temporary is a verb according to the RID.   However I am not sure that this is the defining difference between verbs and modifying words. 

 

In fact I have read so much that the contradictions don’t worry me any more but when it comes to translation of things which might have an effect on me I like to recognise them when they appear. 

It is apparent that this pink card was not meant for people like us because if we have it, we cannot leave the locality where it was issued unless we carry our passports, which we are required to do anyway. 

 

[Trembly]

On 9/5/2019 at 11:18 AM, jackdd said:

1. This is not a Thai citizen ID card

2. You have to carry this card with you at all times

3. The person who got this card is forbidden to leave the area which issued the card(*)

except if this person has a personal identification certificate(**) or

a person who got a permit

 

(*) the card is issued by the amphoe, so imho this means forbidden to leave the amphoe

(**) i think this means passport

 

On other versions of this card which i saw on Google the part which i marked green is missing

I would translate 3 as "The person named in this card is forbidden to leave the jurisdiction of the issuing authority, except for those able to present foreign personal identification papers or written permission."

Bear in mind that the pink card was conceived not as a personal identity document for foreign residents, but to control the movements of stateless persons (people the Thai government would rather not be in Thai borders, would rather not give THai citizenship, but can't push out to neighbouring countries) within Thai borders. The vast majority of people who are forced to carry these cards can't wait to get rid of them, it's like a millstone around their necks. 

For the people who designed this card, the "foreign personal identification papers" is not meant to refer to the common passport booklet that most people know, it means something very specific: an A4 piece of paper that contains information such as tribe / ethnicity, specific permissions to travel or not travel, time limitations, etc. 

However, the wording is sufficiently broad or vague that a standard international passport would also fit the definition. If the definitions were tighter, and more clear, and the officials really understood what they were doing, they would either not issue these cards to people with passports at all or they would change the wording on the back to be more suitable. 

[tgeezer]

Has anybody ears heard อย่าพึง... used as a warning not to do something?  

I wonder if ข้อพึงปฏิบัติ says “Do not try to do 1,2 or 3 with this card. 

[tgeezer]

Just spoke to my clever Thai mate who says that ข้อพึงปฏิบัติ can be “regulations to be observed” in this case.