Iq

[Dutchy]

This is serious topic, please reply only if you think that you may be able to contribute something to this thread..

The IQ of Thai high school students dropped last year from 91 to 88 points, the world average is 100. What could cause this extremely low IQ?

Women take their kids in the car at six in the morning to drop them off at the nanny, I've heard people say that Thai children lack sleep and this affects the development of the brain. Most people have seen that Thai children can fall asleep at any time.

Japanese children are also often tired, but most of the time it's because they work hard and study till after midnight. I have not seen Thai children do this yet.

Sleep depreviation could be one factor, any other ideas...?

Dutchy

[Richard Hall]

This is serious topic, please reply only if you think that you may be able to contribute something to this thread..

The IQ of Thai high school students dropped last year from 91 to 88 points, the world average is 100. What could cause this extremely low IQ?

Women take their kids in the car at six in the morning to drop them off at the nanny, I've heard people say that Thai children lack sleep and this affects the development of the brain. Most people have seen that Thai children can fall asleep at any time.

Japanese children are also often tired, but most of the time it's because they work hard and study till after midnight. I have not seen Thai children do this yet.

Sleep depreviation could be one factor, any other ideas...?

Dutchy

There are surely several aspects contributing to this phenomen:

1. Lack of sleep and hence lack of concentration

2. Improper nutrition

3. Lack of education by parents and teachers

As to 1. It appears to be very typical that in hot/tropical climates children tend to go to bed later than in colder countries. In addition, particularyl in respect of Bangkok, we have to deal with the daily traffic jams that forces some children to get up very early (sometimes even before six). Realizing the importance of sufficient sleep it lies in the sole responsibility of the parents to assure this. Our 9 year old for example has to be in bed by 8.00 pm, no discussions and this law is STRICTLY enforced. Result: She gets up at 6.00 am and never feels asleep in school, averages at about 87% and is a smart breed (sometimes even wisea...) of a kid. Stubborn, intelligent but knows the rules.

It is up to the education department and the schools to make the parents aware of the importance of sufficient sleep in young age since obviously some parents are just unable (catch 22 because of own insufficient education) to figure this out themselves. Make sure you have your kid to a good school that you can work hand in hand with and that is indeed interested in your child rather than just making money. Actually, it took me three attempts to trace an satisfactory one but now I enjoy the benefits.

As to 2. A good school provides proper meals and particularly supervises that young kids (up to elementary grade 3) eat sufficiently and properly. In our case it is LAW for all kids up to grad 3 to drink milk (provided free by the school) EVERY afternoon. The principal of a previous (solely money oriented) school claimed that there is no need for a 6 year old kid to drink milk anymore! Actual proplem is that milk is kind of expensive and hinders the school to make money.

Solution: The educational department identifies these pseudo schools and revokes their licenses. This can be more easily accompished than thought. Pay not pre-announced control visits regularly to all schools and make sure that the controlling officiers are straight with own kids knowing the basic problems and are not vulnerable to bribing attempts.

As to 3. See point number 2 and assure that teachers are well educated and schools are real schools and not money making companies. Good schools work hand in hand with parents, identify problems and find solution. Frank input from all parties (schools and parents) are required.

Due to a lack of proper education there is a misunderstanding by the parents resulting in the claim that children are children and one should leave them on a long leash. Problems will fade out at a higher age which is certainly absolute BS. Education starts at the very low age of only serveral months. This is the time that parents have to provide guidance and set up the limits for their children rather that getting slaved by them. Guidance means making the children think and understand and come up with own logical conclusions. Explain, explain, explain...

The school system in Thailand, however, is not based on explanations but sole authority. The teacher is always right and own thinking and conclusions by the students are unwanted because this is seen as disrepectfulness. Due to this students never learn or even unlearn to think on their own.

Amazingly, I discovered that Thai children in average are actually NOT more stupid than their equivalent in other countries once you pressed on the right button releasing their creativity and letting them use their brain. Actually it is not much what it takes sometimes only a couple of hours that a dull face expression turns in one of understanding and overwhelming enthusiasm. The potential is there just sleeping under the surface due to a misconcepted educational system.

Pulling the trigger takes less than one dares to expect. Sad, that there is just that blindness among those making the rules and holding the power. Maybe in the past someone just forgot or was unable to pull their trigger as well and so breaking out of the endless cycle appears to be such an unaccomlishable assignment.

[mbkudu]

I honestly believe that the air pollution in Bangkok has a lot to do with it.

[Richard Hall]

If this theory really held true residents of all the big capital cities in the world would have to be generally less intelligent than their counterparts in rural areas and there should be lots of bright thinkers among the hilltribe people living in a much more natural and less polluted environment.

As far as I recall, however, the study carried out in Thailand did not indicate that the "stupids" live just in Bangkok but rather that the IQ levels found in rural areas were even less than those in BKK.

[sbk]

Where did you see this report? Just out of curiousity, who published it?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I find it hard to believe that polloution or diet can affect IQ, even if it did then Thai's eat plently of fish which is supposedly good for the brain.

I'm with theory that the higher degree of long term tiredness and fatigue affects Thai brains.

If you've spent most of your life being hot and knackered then you're not going to be the sharpest tool in the box.

Sleep is very important to keep a brain healthy.

[chanchao]

...I want to see a source for the research that gave the IQ number real fast...

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Richard Hall]

Where did you see this report? Just out of curiousity, who published it?

The article was published in the Bangkok Post maybe some time like 6 months ago. Maybe you can trace it when making an online search on their webside.

[chanchao]

"Don't trust anything in the Bangkok post that has a number in it."

(And very little of the rest.. )

[Nat]

Depending on how intelligence quotients are presented they are easily open to misinterpretation – a pet hate of mine.

Not exactly sure from where the figures have been quoted - are they from the Public Health Ministry? Either way I’m curious to know which instrument was used to derive these scores. I’m assuming this was a large scale study therefore a group test would have been administered, such as the Raven Progressive Matrices (which have been administered to thai children in the past – actually an association has been found between performance scores and iron status). The flaw with most group tests is that they usually only measure one aspect of intelligence, such as the non-verbal abilities. Individual tests such as the Wechsler scales measure verbal and non-verbal aspects of intelligence – which in my personal opinion are more accurate. However with all standardized tests there are always standard scores to enable interpretation eg. for Wechsler it’s 100 with a standard deviation of 15 (also the most commonly quoted by the layman). So the mean score of 100 is the average level at which an individual in a particular group in the representative sample (nationality based) performed. Confused yet? Anyway when it comes to intelligence testing there is more involved than simply stating a quotient.

[Richard Hall]

"Don't trust anything in the Bangkok post that has a number in it."

(And very little of the rest.. )

How 'bout the price of 20 Baht does it mean it is not real and can be negotiated? May I refer to chanchao "King of the Penguins" next time I buy the Post and just claim a deduction? Guess next thing they gonna print based on that is that the IQ of farang is even lower because they are so weeeird.

[Richard Hall]

Nat surely has a point. Determining intelligence is relative. Usually the tests targeting towards one direction but guess the ability to come up with a solution based on a logical conclusion for a problem one is confronted with is what basically intelligence is about.

Transferred to real life this may mean learning from your mistakes and do not do the same stupidity twice.

Also low intelligence may be the unability to handle a situation uncommon to the standard. For example a while ago I tried to buy a plate of fruits from a booth selling fruit juice produced by placing fruits into a blender and liquifying them. Now, I confronted the seller with the "problem" that I did not want fruit juice but the real unliquified fruits placed on a plate instead. The deal could not be closed because that individual was absolutely unable to place the same amount of fruits on a plate instead of putting it into the blender and this was not because lacking a plate.

Another example: Try to buy som tam and ask NOT to put sugar into it as usual. If you get the answer that this can not be accomplished because it would not be som tam and the deal fails this is what I personally consider as low intelligence or harsher said stupidity in the actual meaning of the word.

Just examples of what will be generated in real life if one never learnt how to switch on the brain that undoubtedly is physically present but is constantly sleeping in deep deep darkness.

One that may believe if seeing a sad movie twice because next time it may end more happily... is surely a real advocate of low brain activity independant from whatever system is employed to determine the IQ level.

Facing stupidity lets make you shake your head in disbelief... maybe a new measurement system by just making a count.

Being aware of one's own limitations and ignorance is surely the first step towards wisdom while only the stupid deny.

[mbkudu]

If this theory really held true residents of all the big capital cities in the world would have to be generally less intelligent than their counterparts in rural areas and there should be lots of bright thinkers among the hilltribe people living in a much more natural and less polluted environment.

As far as I recall, however, the study carried out in Thailand did not indicate that the "stupids" live just in Bangkok but rather that the IQ levels found in rural areas were even less than those in BKK.

I think that intelligence is relative to your needs and living conditions. To ask my

father in law, for example, to take an IQ test I think would be rediculous. He has raised a big family, has a very sucessful farming bussines whrere he employs about 15 people. He is not wealthy but well off and highly respected in his community. Your argument about Hill Tribe people is pretty weak. Does a Hill Tribe farmer working the land need to know about parabolas, 14th century writers or how to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius? No, but he does know about soil contents,

complex medicinal plants and herbs, irrigation, animal husbandry, seasonal weather change for crop rotation ect.. The IQ test is <deleted>!

[Axel]

IQ is basically a result of correct replies to pre-fixed questions.

I don't think it can be related to weather, environment or rural versus city-education.

Not long ago I was down in 'Nakhon nowhere' in a western style hotel that offered western breakfast. I told the waiter that I would like to have their breakfast but no cereals, only the cold milk. He told me, this could be done but would cost 20 Baht extra.

Now was he just clever or did he have a high IQ?

Myself refused the extra cost, got the full monty and returned the cereals untouched. Does this mean my IQ is higher?

[konangrit]

Does a Hill Tribe farmer working the land need to know about parabolas, 14th century writers or how to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius? No, but he does know about soil contents,

complex medicinal plants and herbs, irrigation, animal husbandry, seasonal weather change for crop rotation ect.. The IQ test is <deleted>!

IQ tests are a test of intelligence, not education. Being educated in parabolas, 14th century writers or how to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius would be of no benefit to you in an IQ test. The only knowledge needed to complete an IQ test is an understanding of the language that the questions are written in, and a basic understanding of mathematics.

IQ tests are a far better indicator of intelligence than any academic results, as those who have not had the benefit of a good education aren't at a disadvantage.

I find it very annoying when I hear people equate education to intelligence. Just because someone is well educated does not mean that they are intelligent. Equally just because someone is uneducated does not mean that they have a low intelligence, although you will have a hard time finding a Thai who will agree with this.

[Axel]

Dutchy, to keep this thread serious, I placed my other ideas on IQ

here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11262&hl=

[mbkudu]

I wonder what Einstein's thoughts on the IQ test were?

[Nat]

I find it very annoying when I hear people equate education to intelligence.

This is a common misconception many people have, a few others about the area of psych are: all schizophrenics have split-personalities and all shrinks are Freudian analysts obsessed with sex (well there might be some truth in that one ).

Anyway, aptitude does not equal intelligence – many people sit aptitude tests (usually in an academic environment) and incorrectly call it an intelligence test. An individual who scholastically performs well does not always fall within the gifted range of intelligence. Mensa is made up of people from all walks of life, some highly educated, some not. I’m sure if they had a chapter in Thailand it would consist of at least one som tam vendor

[Dutchy]

1. Lack of sleep and hence lack of concentration

2. Improper nutrition

3. Lack of education by parents and teachers

with regards to number 2, many international schools sell anything as long as it produces a profit. I've seen 'dek uans' by the dozens walking around a well known international school at the end of Ladprow, this particular school sells loads of fat food. Kid don't drink milk anymore these days, coca cola only.

The lack of education by parents and teachers is a main issue here in Thailand. I personally feel that the non confrontational Thai culture is non sustainable in this world. When performance is below standard it should be made clear, no excuses of saving face. Students are not challenged enough and teachers are often powerless, I heard stories of teachers failing students which was not received favorably at management. The school director personally changed the F's into better grades.. Standards are missing..

The combination of it all gives Thai students a real bad start in life... What to expect in a country where a minister of education sent his children abroad for study...

[whattodo]

The combination of it all gives Thai students a real bad start in life... What to expect in a country where a minister of education sent his children abroad for study...

so true so true

[Bluecat]

I wonder what Einstein's thoughts on the IQ test were?

Einstein liked to walk a lot.

A journalist met him during one of his walks and asked him:

"Mr. Einstein, when you walk, do you carry some paper and a pen?"

"What for?"

"So that if you have an idea you can write it down"

"Oh, you know, ideas happen so seldom,...."

[whattodo]

[ASIC]

IQ tests are a test of intelligence, not education. Being educated in parabolas, 14th century writers or how to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius would be of no benefit to you in an IQ test. The only knowledge needed to complete an IQ test is an understanding of the language that the questions are written in, and a basic understanding of mathematics.

The proper IQ tests are not in any specific language, but consists of symbols exclusively.

ASIC