On 9/19/2019 at 1:20 AM, StreetCowboy said:

To be honest, Brexit will not be the problem.  The problem will be the radicalisation of previously normal people into anti-establishment discontents who will never acknowledge their mistakes, and continuously blame the government and others for their misfortune, despite their role in undermining the government of parliament.  

 

Not only has Brexit set us against our neighbours, but it has also divided our own household, and diminished our institutions to the extent that we are led by buffoons and charlatans.

 

Unlike Nigel Farage, my children are not entitled to foreign passports, so they will have to live with whatever shambles in which Britain is left. 

Youre right about one thing - the shambles is definitely caused by the Left!!

When I would be a Brit (quod non), that over-inflated balloon of a Cameron would be THE LAST individual I would want to hear say ONE word about the debacle HE has created, without a single doubt the outcome would for sure pamper his huge, ...misplaced, ego!

OK (not OK, but...), Labour has Corbyn (...and had Blair before!), but the Conservative party 'seems' to me as having no rival for the Guiness book of records crown of generating in its protective(!) womb, its own totally worthless, utterly despicable, self-centered, World estranged, ... 'leaders'.

No prob in itself, was it not they have, and obviously still do, 'master the art' of bringing their country down. What a shame that is! I just hope their days are gone, and the Conservative party will soon crumble to the 3rd or 4th rank, before, at last, imploding.

5 hours ago, bizboi said:

only <deleted> see a cliff the rest see an oportunity

Vultures and other necrophagous species will no doubt see it as an opportunity, ...to feed on the remains of the crushed misled brexit lemmings at the bottom of the cliff, LOL.

On 9/19/2019 at 2:50 AM, transam said:

No, just want our streets and purse strings back. Our past shows we have the balls to do that, something you would not understand...

LOL, 'balls' like in the days of carambole, two white and one red, on the billiard tables of the better houses of yore, you mean? ...Or more like the balls in that lost colony's poolbilliard? Which mix IMO look much closer to 'your' British streets nowadays, actually probably the same new 'Brits' who are (scarcely) filling that purse you still call yours too...

In which century of 'the Empire' did you fall asleep in? Wake up! The outside world has changed, a bit, you know...

 

Edited September 27, 20196 yr by bangrak

1 hour ago, bangrak said:

LOL, 'balls' like in the days of carambole, two white and one red, on the billiard tables of the better houses of yore, you mean? ...Or more like the balls in that lost colony's poolbilliard? Which mix IMO look much closer to 'your' British streets nowadays, actually probably the same new 'Brits' who are (scarcely) filling that purse you still call yours too...

In which century of 'the Empire' did you fall asleep in? Wake up! The outside world has changed, a bit, you know...

 

Promise to set my alarm for 6 and check it out.  

2 hours ago, bangrak said:

When I would be a Brit (quod non), that over-inflated balloon of a Cameron would be THE LAST individual I would want to hear say ONE word about the debacle HE has created, without a single doubt the outcome would for sure pamper his huge, ...misplaced, ego!

OK (not OK, but...), Labour has Corbyn (...and had Blair before!), but the Conservative party 'seems' to me as having no rival for the Guiness book of records crown of generating in its protective(!) womb, its own totally worthless, utterly despicable, self-centered, World estranged, ... 'leaders'.

No prob in itself, was it not they have, and obviously still do, 'master the art' of bringing their country down. What a shame that is! I just hope their days are gone, and the Conservative party will soon crumble to the 3rd or 4th rank, before, at last, imploding.

 

 

I am guessing that you read a lot of fiction..

Oh Goodie will it be the best of three then oh No best of five then.

9 hours ago, bangrak said:

LOL, 'balls' like in the days of carambole, two white and one red, on the billiard tables of the better houses of yore, you mean? ...Or more like the balls in that lost colony's poolbilliard? Which mix IMO look much closer to 'your' British streets nowadays, actually probably the same new 'Brits' who are (scarcely) filling that purse you still call yours too...

In which century of 'the Empire' did you fall asleep in? Wake up! The outside world has changed, a bit, you know...

 

No, it's just that you have changed a bit.....You do not speak for me or anyone else, plus you were out voted....Understand, out voted..

9 hours ago, transam said:

No, it's just that you have changed a bit.....You do not speak for me or anyone else, plus you were out voted....Understand, out voted..

That’ll change. At the moment, we are still in the hands of the government and parliament, and until Boris and his croneys vote for Brexit with a majority in Parliament, you can blame him for failing to deliver Brexit.  

1 minute ago, StreetCowboy said:

That’ll change. At the moment, we are still in the hands of the government and parliament, and until Boris and his croneys vote for Brexit with a majority in Parliament, you can blame him for failing to deliver Brexit.  

I would not blame Boris, he is the new boy on the block having a go. I blame the whole bunch of them, but mainly the coward that ran away after cocking things up, Cameron....

1 minute ago, transam said:

I would not blame Boris, he is the new boy on the block having a go. I blame the whole bunch of them, but mainly the coward that ran away after cocking things up, Cameron....

May delivered Brexit - maybe not the Brexit that you or I wanted, but Brexit nonetheless, and Boris and his croneys stabbed her in the back.  Now they can find a way out of the mess that they created, instead of agreeing her withdrawal agreement as a first step.

 

I have had enough of this condemnation of May’s agreement that it could have left us tied to the Customs Union indefinitely,  that is Project Fear.  That is admitting that we had no solutions, no alternatives, a surrender that we are unable to come up with solutions, unfit to negotiate with the EU.  The May government did its best.  It is horrific to think that maybe Boris is also doing his best.  The nicest thing I can think of to say about him is that he flatters May by comparison, and he used to ride a bike

19 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

May delivered Brexit - maybe not the Brexit that you or I wanted, but Brexit nonetheless, and Boris and his croneys stabbed her in the back.  Now they can find a way out of the mess that they created, instead of agreeing her withdrawal agreement as a first step.

 

I have had enough of this condemnation of May’s agreement that it could have left us tied to the Customs Union indefinitely,  that is Project Fear.  That is admitting that we had no solutions, no alternatives, a surrender that we are unable to come up with solutions, unfit to negotiate with the EU.  The May government did its best.  It is horrific to think that maybe Boris is also doing his best.  The nicest thing I can think of to say about him is that he flatters May by comparison, and he used to ride a bike

No, you're right, it's not Project Fear. It's Operation Brino which is a treaty that there is no clear way out of. If this is the best May could do then that confirms she was actually useless or that she was colluding with the EU. Either way it should not be signed and a short extension to give the EU a chance to negotiate with some fairness is preferable; if they can't improve on their offer then we should just leave.

9 hours ago, nauseus said:

No, you're right, it's not Project Fear. It's Operation Brino which is a treaty that there is no clear way out of. If this is the best May could do then that confirms she was actually useless or that she was colluding with the EU. Either way it should not be signed and a short extension to give the EU a chance to negotiate with some fairness is preferable; if they can't improve on their offer then we should just leave.

The EU agreed a deal with the then British government. If the current government want to change that deal then it is up to them to make the first move and suggest some changes.

 

As for just leaving, 57% of voters in 2017 voted for parties who said they were against a no deal Brexit. I thought you lot believed in democracy?

 

Of course, people do change their minds and maybe a good many of those now favour a no deal Brexit; just as a good many of those who voted in 2016 may have changed their minds as well!

 

How best to solve this conundrum in a truly democratic manner?

 

I know! Let we, the people, make the decision in a final, legally binding referendum!

Edited September 29, 20196 yr by 7by7
Typo

26 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

The EU agreed a deal with the then British government. If the current government want to change that deal then it is up to them to make the first move and suggest some changes.

 

As for just leaving, 57% of voters in 2017 voted for parties who said they were against a no deal Brexit. I thought you lot believed in democracy?

 

Of course, people do change their minds and maybe a good many of those now favour a no deal Brexit; just as a good many of those who voted in 2016 may have changed their minds as well!

 

How best to solve this conundrum in a truly democratic manner?

 

I know! Let we, the people, make the decision in a final, legally binding referendum!

The referendum was in 2016 and the result of that has not yet been honoured. That is why more people than ever want to leave now. 

On 9/29/2019 at 11:41 PM, 7by7 said:

The EU agreed a deal with the then British government. If the current government want to change that deal then it is up to them to make the first move and suggest some changes.

 

As for just leaving, 57% of voters in 2017 voted for parties who said they were against a no deal Brexit. I thought you lot believed in democracy?

 

Of course, people do change their minds and maybe a good many of those now favour a no deal Brexit; just as a good many of those who voted in 2016 may have changed their minds as well!

 

How best to solve this conundrum in a truly democratic manner?

 

I know! Let we, the people, make the decision in a final, legally binding referendum!

we've already had one and YOU and your <deleted> fascists won’t accept democracy!!

On 9/29/2019 at 5:10 PM, nauseus said:

The referendum was in 2016 and the result of that has not yet been honoured. That is why more people than ever want to leave now. 

 

The best time to rectify a mistake is before it is too late. 

 

If you are so sure that 'more people than ever want to leave now' then you have nothing to fear from a final, legally binding referendum.

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The best time to rectify a mistake is before it is too late. 

 

If you are so sure that 'more people than ever want to leave now' then you have nothing to fear from a final, legally binding referendum.

Good grief........ Unbelievable, but expected....????

3 hours ago, bizboi said:

we've already had one and YOU and your <deleted> fascists won’t accept democracy!!

 You Brexiteers really should get your acts together when it comes to your insults!

 

Half of you call Remainers fascists, the other half call us ultra lefties!

 

We had an advisory referendum which we trusted Parliament to act upon. Due to the shenanigans of Rees-Mogg, Johnson and their Tory backers, Parliament hasn't done so.

 

So take the decision away from MPs who put their personal ambitions ahead of the country and give it back to the people in a final, legally binding referendum. Why are you so afraid of that?

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 You Brexiteers really should get your acts together when it comes to your insults!

 

Half of you call Remainers fascists, the other half call us ultra lefties!

 

We had an advisory referendum which we trusted Parliament to act upon. Due to the shenanigans of Rees-Mogg, Johnson and their Tory backers, Parliament hasn't done so.

 

So take the decision away from MPs who put their personal ambitions ahead of the country and give it back to the people in a final, legally binding referendum. Why are you so afraid of that?

And I am a racist, because you told me so....Again you are twisting facts to suit your agenda..........

Just now, transam said:

Good grief........ Unbelievable, but expected....????

 Yes, we all know that you find logic difficult to comprehend.

 

But tell us, if you, like @nauseus, are so sure that more people than ever are in favour of Brexit, why are you so afraid of giving us the final say?

 

Could one reason be that in 2017 over 57% voted for parties who in their manefestos had ruled out a no deal Brexit? Perhaps you fear that has no changed from not wanting a no deal Brexit to not wanting Brexit at all!

 

In a democracy the people are allowed to change our minds; that is why we have elections every 5 years at most!

 

Just now, transam said:

And I am a racist, because you told me so....Again you are twisting facts to suit your agenda..........

 

When did I call you a racist?

 

Are you denying that Remainers have been called both fascists and ultra left wing? If so,, you haven't been paying attention in these topics!

 

So, what facts am I twisting?

 

 

Just now, 7by7 said:

 Yes, we all know that you find logic difficult to comprehend.

 

But tell us, if you, like @nauseus, are so sure that more people than ever are in favour of Brexit, why are you so afraid of giving us the final say?

 

Could one reason be that in 2017 over 57% voted for parties who in their manefestos had ruled out a no deal Brexit? Perhaps you fear that has no changed from not wanting a no deal Brexit to not wanting Brexit at all!

 

In a democracy the people are allowed to change our minds; that is why we have elections every 5 years at most!

Again you talk total cr_p, We had a vote, it's done, we want it implemented, but no, YOU want another vote just in case it will go your way...A despicable attitude........

11 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

When did I call you a racist?

 

Are you denying that Remainers have been called both fascists and ultra left wing? If so,, you haven't been paying attention in these topics!

 

So, what facts am I twisting?

 

 

You called me a racist on one of the Islamic terrorist threads, when it was I cannot remember, but I think I was taking you to task because you reckoned Islamic terrorists were not Muslims....

I haven't called either fascists or left wing, though I may have mentioned Black Shirts...

You twist folks posts to suit your meaning....

 

You asked....

23 minutes ago, transam said:

Again you talk total cr_p, We had a vote, it's done, we want it implemented, but no, YOU want another vote just in case it will go your way...A despicable attitude........

 

We voted in a government in 2017; another general election isn't due until 2022. Yet you Brexiteers want another one now!

 

Had Rees-Mogg, Johnson and their Tory backers not prevented it then the result of the 2016 referendum would have been implemented last March.

 

Parliament has shown itself unable to make the final decision, so give that decision to us, the people. 

 

It may produce a different result; people's opinions change as more facts become available and as the situation changes. That is why in our democracy we are allowed the right to change our minds about who governs us, from Parish Council all the way up to Central Government, in elections.

 

You want to deny us that right over this vitally important issue simply because you are running scared of losing; that's what's a despicable attitude!

 

 

Edited October 1, 20196 yr by 7by7
Typo

Just now, transam said:

You called me a racist on one of the Islamic terrorist threads, when it was I cannot remember, but I think I was taking you to task because you reckoned Islamic terrorists were not Muslims....

I haven't called either fascists or left wing, though I may have mentioned Black Shirts...

You twist folks posts to suit your meaning....

 

You asked....

 

I have never denied that Islamic terrorist are Muslims; although I may have said that they are not true Muslims in the same way that PIRA terrorists are not true Catholics.

 

I have never called an Islamaphobe a racist.

 

I did not say that YOU  had called ME a fascist or left wing; read the post again.

 

Though if I could be bothered to search I'm sure it wouldn't take long to find a post where you had called me or another Remainer something akin to 'PC, tree hugging, immigrant loving leftie.' 

 

 

19 minutes ago, transam said:

Again you talk total cr_p, We had a vote, it's done, we want it implemented, but no, YOU want another vote just in case it will go your way...A despicable attitude........

We had a vote for a vague principle. When we actually looked at real options  that are available to us parliament realized they were all cr@p and couldn't pick one.

Is in not sensible to go back to the public and ask them is this really what you wanted ?

i

26 minutes ago, transam said:

Again you talk total cr_p, We had a vote, it's done, we want it implemented, but no, YOU want another vote just in case it will go your way...A despicable attitude........

How many 'Bring it on's' does ol' 49 need before realizing theyll be thrashed by an even bigger margin?

Edited October 1, 20196 yr by evadgib

23 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I have never denied that Islamic terrorist are Muslims; although I may have said that they are not true Muslims in the same way that PIRA terrorists are not true Catholics.

Point of order (I think HoC terms are getting to me!).

It is rather different, the Catholic/ Protestant divide in Ireland and the west of Scotland is a tribal one rather than a religious one. No one cares about Papal infallibility, virgin birth, or any of that Sh#t. Are paedophile priests not true Catholics? Following that logic there is the perfect excuse for any religion sponsored atrocity, they are not true Catholics/Muslims/Hindus etc. 

The Islamic terrorists definitely are true muslims according to their own stated beliefs. The fact that it is a particularly foul Wahabi/Salafi version of Islam that they adhere to doesn't mean that it is not part of Islam. The Saudis have been spreading this version round the world like a cancer.

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

How many 'Bring it on's' does ol' 49 need before realizing theyll be thrashed by an even bigger margin?

Yep, what a Legend.....????

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The best time to rectify a mistake is before it is too late. 

 

If you are so sure that 'more people than ever want to leave now' then you have nothing to fear from a final, legally binding referendum.

I have nothing to fear from another referendum but that should be a direct repeat of the previous one(s).