UK Conservatives hold significant lead over Labour: poll

[Nigel Garvie]

6 hours ago, darksidedog said:

What this article doesn't mention is the Lib Dems running a solid third and Brexit Party and UKIP slipping away. With Labours policy resembling a reed in the wind, Lib Dems could pick up more, but that Tory lead looks hard to crack.

An election is still a little way off though and as they say, a week is a long time in politics.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/21/labour-resurgent-liberal-democrat-headache

The Labour party have to be out of their mind to go for an election now. Their Brexit lack of policy will drive many voters to the Libs. If the Brexit party form a pact with the Tories the LP will be serious losers. 

BREXIT IS NOT A GENERAL ELECTION ISSUE.........it is on its own.  LANCE THE BOIL, FIRST have a referendum, whatever way it goes. After that the 
Brexit party will be irrelevant, the Libs will have the wind taken from their sails overnight, the Tories will be exposed on the domestic front as a bunch of self serving liars for whom the poor are only there to be exploited.  THEN  the Labour Party have a chance. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Nigel Garvie

[Bruntoid]

Bizarre with a thread headline such as this one that tactical voting has not been mentioned.

 

If the Remain leaning Labour and Greens aid the Lib Dem’s where they are the stalking horse to the Tories and vice versa, there could be carnage for the Tories at a forthcoming general election. 

 

Given the mandate for leave has gone I don’t think PM Cummings should be feeling confident just yet. 

[Bruntoid]

6 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

What a disaster, The should have went with a hard Brexit right away. By now they would have been well on the way to recovery and have lots of new trade deals.

Of course the globalists wouldn't have it.

On the delusion scale that one’s going to be difficult to beat! 

 

Ever negotiated a trade deal ? 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That is a good idea. But is it realistic?

I.e. if the UK wants to do a trade deal with the USA how much of that sovereignty will you have to give up to get a deal?

It's normal for the other 200+ countries in this word....so why not?

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It's normal for the other 200+ countries in this word....so why not?

With Boris and the orange one such good friends I am sure it will be a win/win deal. Or maybe not?

[samran]

6 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

What a disaster, The should have went with a hard Brexit right away. By now they would have been well on the way to recovery and have lots of new trade deals.

Of course the globalists wouldn't have it.

What a bizzare post...

 

You know if you advocate for trade deals - and lots of them - then by definition, you are a globalist yourself.

 

Or do you just like throwing out terms like that cause they sound good to the economic luddites. 

 

As for ‘well on the way’ to lots of new trade deals. Well, I am waiting in giddy delight for post brexit to see ashened faced reactions when your best friends internationally tell you that you are up for 5-10 years of negotiations before you get a trade deal only 1/3 as good as you have now with the EU.

Edited September 22, 2019 by samran

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

Stop changing the subject, it was you who brought up trade deals. I guess the question 

 

"And why do you imagine the little UK will be able to make somehow better deals than the big EU?"

 

....was too uncomfortable for you.

 

Let's consider the recent evidence about who's better when it comes to negotiating deals. Now, if only I could remember the outcome of the EU/UK negotiations oner the past three years...........

 

There has been no outcome except a crappy arrangement that has been rejected 3x.

[Thingamabob]

Labour can't hide forever. There will be an election sooner or later.

[Thingamabob]

5 hours ago, samran said:

Says a lot about the state of Labour and in particular Corbyn that he is less popular that this rotting dung-heap of a government. 

Puerile language. Detracts from the point you are trying to make.

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Ah.. so the UK is also going to leave from WTO, WHO, UN, FIFA, Olympic Committee etc, as.. all reduce your 100% sovereignty a little.

And in the EU council, the only decission body, the PM of the UK can have a word about what all other EU member states do. From 1 Nov onwards.. NOTHING anymore.

The mighty Olympic Committee eh? 

Have you been watching what Europe has done to itself in the last few years. Has Britain had a lot influence in avoiding those bad decisions. Seriously, the further you get from those geniuses the better.

[canuckamuck]

2 hours ago, samran said:

What a bizzare post...

 

You know if you advocate for trade deals - and lots of them - then by definition, you are a globalist yourself.

 

Or do you just like throwing out terms like that cause they sound good to the economic luddites. 

 

As for ‘well on the way’ to lots of new trade deals. Well, I am waiting in giddy delight for post brexit to see ashened faced reactions when your best friends internationally tell you that you are up for 5-10 years of negotiations before you get a trade deal only 1/3 as good as you have now with the EU.

There is a difference between globalism and trading globally. One is socialist and the other is free market.

[samran]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

There is a difference between globalism and trading globally. One is socialist and the other is free market.

well, what you are going to get post brexit will be the furtherest thing from free market. Most free trade agreements are anything but 'free'.

 

Unfettered access to the EU....well, that is 'free trade' on steroids.

 

So which is it? Crappy and limited trade deals are your definition of 'free trade'? Bizzare.

 

 

[Thingamabob]

5 hours ago, puck2 said:

Some time before I mentioned here on TV:

• May - not the best PM, means low quality
• Corbyn - not the best man/people on the top of the LP

Johnson is a wimp. A big mistake of the Labour Party, not changing the leader.  Will cost the party a big loss of votes. Hopefully the Libs will win more.

Love him or loathe him I can assure you the one thing Boris is not is a wimp.

[Thingamabob]

2 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Bizarre with a thread headline such as this one that tactical voting has not been mentioned.

 

If the Remain leaning Labour and Greens aid the Lib Dem’s where they are the stalking horse to the Tories and vice versa, there could be carnage for the Tories at a forthcoming general election. 

 

Given the mandate for leave has gone I don’t think PM Cummings should be feeling confident just yet. 

Hot money backing a 55% plus win for Leave in a second referendum.

[canuckamuck]

16 minutes ago, samran said:

well, what you are going to get post brexit will be the furtherest thing from free market. Most free trade agreements are anything but 'free'.

 

Unfettered access to the EU....well, that is 'free trade' on steroids.

 

So which is it? Crappy and limited trade deals are your definition of 'free trade'? Bizzare.

 

 

Well there is a difference between free trade and free market too. Seems like you are in the habit of mixing terms. 

I am confident that the plucky Brits will do just fine making some nice deals for themselves. A very capable bunch of chaps over there.

[samran]

14 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Well there is a difference between free trade and free market too. Seems like you are in the habit of mixing terms. 

I am confident that the plucky Brits will do just fine making some nice deals for themselves. A very capable bunch of chaps over there.

I'm not mixing up anything. Nor am I in the habit of using terms like 'globalists' which have their roots with the anti-semites.

 

You can't really have free markets with half arsed 'free' trade agreements putting regulatory barriers in the way (think tarrifs, quotas, non-tariff barriers).

 

Markets are either free, or they aren't. And come the end of the month, they will be alot less freer than they need be.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by samran

[Wardp]

Yes take back control ....latest poll says 51% in ulster would vote to join the republic . Customs  union all ireland agriculture  all ireland rugby etc etc

[bangrak]

I'm looking at what a future, maybe close, general election could be.

When I got that one right(?), a lot of the younger British citizens, and the more so those from families of, erm, non-British origins, are not political party bound.

Please, do contradict me when I'm wrong about that, or about anything following.

The 'lib dems' are, on the fresh wave carrying them, been the only ones being clear in their endeavour: they go for remain.

The Conservative party, ...as far as the Darvish clique of BJ, DC & Co. is going for a Brexit, any Brexit, at any cost, even a cataclysmic one for the country, ...but is the traditional Conservative electorate ready to sail on such an adventure with them, considering the lunacy of 'some' of these 'self-invented' 'leaders'?

The possibility for the Conservative party to get in the clear after cleaning up its act, before a General Election, ...in a convincise way for the voters, seems a very unrealistic expectation.

...What may well lead the lunatics at the helm to double up on their rabid theories, no-deal, bye-bye, to attract  a maximum of the lemmings blindly following false prophet Farage, ...doing so losing swats of its 'automatic votes'.

Most of the basic idealistic socialist and dyed-through-the-wool trade unionist public of Labour has turned localised, sour, ...old, and few. And what does Labour go for? Not a no-deal Brexit, but... rather what then? A well negociated Brexit, or even remain? Erm, are they in the clear among themselves about that yet, or not?

Labour could(!) bring a 'swing' of 5%, maybe even up to 10, of the electorate, and be, together with the 'lid-dems' (and 'local parties' like the Scottish independentists), become an alternative 'ticket', if..., ...and when!

This is a 'once in a generation' opportunity, or maybe simply the last for Labour: mid-stream socialist parties, all over (sorry, Brexiteers) Europe are fast and steadily losing their electorate (to neo-'communistic' parties and populist mirror-players). Where they still remain a major force (erm, for good reasons...) it is because of a, solid, realistic, national social project!

Well, it wouldn't take much for Labour to come up with such, they have the people and the structures to, but, but, but, could, would Labour be able to, ASAP, now, solve some essential internal problems? ...Like JC, to step back? Not one step, but out-of-the-picture? Or does he consider his ego more important than the party and its future...? ...And quite some other, ...centrifuge, 'ultras' to take a hike, to allow Labour to become a 'social-democratic' (at its right side) and 'center-left' (at its left side) party.

[RuamRudy]

There are only two truly democratic parties in the UK, the Tories and the BP, because they're trying to carry out the will of the people, whereas the others are trying to buck it. The people will always have the last say and this is being shown in the latest opinion poll. In all the reports in the media, the one thing which never seems to be mentioned any longer is what the majority of the people voted for, which was to leave. Whether this is good, bad or indifferent, it's what the people want and these wishes should therefore be carried out. If I were Boris, the next time someone tried to criticise me over Brexit I'd say "I'm just trying to carry out the wishes of the British public as per the result of the democratic referendum". Bu-bum!

The tories are riven by Brexit - the only two truly democratic parties are the Brexit Party and the SNP.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Bruntoid]

On 9/22/2019 at 5:30 PM, Thingamabob said:

Labour can't hide forever. There will be an election sooner or later.

What are they hiding from ? They didn’t agree to a GE because PM Cummings can’t be trusted. That much is crystal clear.

 

Not sure how many times that needs to be pointed out.

[Bruntoid]

On 9/22/2019 at 7:04 PM, Thingamabob said:

Hot money backing a 55% plus win for Leave in a second referendum.

That will be with what bookie ? Or have you just made that up ?  

 

Seriously given the carnage to date and to come from Brexit anyone voting for leave now would simply be rubber stamping their economic illiteracy.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Bruntoid

[elliss]

On 9/22/2019 at 11:33 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

That is a good idea. But is it realistic?

I.e. if the UK wants to do a trade deal with the USA how much of that sovereignty will you have to give up to get a deal?

 

 Give it all up , are there No other other options..

Brexiteers  leaders,  boris and farage , welcome brexit,  aka Trumpeteers . God bless America.

Ultimate control Who?   US Dollar controls ...

  Sovereignty ?, that is for the old boys brigade , RIP.. asap..

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by elliss