teaching agency

[paulikens]

Has anyone dealt with a agency called open books? & yes I know you shouldn't deal with agencies if you wanna teach here,

but that's easier said than done

[Number 6]

No. But I think many agencies habitually change their recruiting names to avoid the reputations they've built. Even fairly large agencies are doing this. I know two for certain. On Craigslist it seems a new *agency* crops up daily. So, they get a new logo for b1000, change the signage in the office, a few business cards and done. The corporation name does not change. I doubt any DBA need be filed and cops wouldn't care anyway. There are thousands of schools that don't use agencies. Despite advice you know to be good you are walking into a hornet's nest willingly.

 

[paulikens]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

No. But I think many agencies habitually change their recruiting names to avoid the reputations they've built. Even fairly large agencies are doing this. I know two for certain. On Craigslist it seems a new *agency* crops up daily. So, they get a new logo for b1000, change the signage in the office, a few business cards and done. The corporation name does not change. I doubt any DBA need be filed and cops wouldn't care anyway. There are thousands of schools that don't use agencies. Despite advice you know to be good you are walking into a hornet's nest willingly.

 

ok thanks. i will just say why im looking at agencies when lots of people say dont, i am finding the schools that aren't through agencies rarely reply&agencies do,so what are you meant to do?& i think ill start with a agency & then once ive had experience of teaching maybe the schools that dont go through agencies will give me a chance.   one of the reasons people say dont use agencies is cuz of the salary but looking at jobs directly through the schools a lot of em there isnt that much of a difference.

[Number 6]

Agencies reply and have jobs because they burn through teachers at alarming rates. Schools hire as needed and that's seasonal. Further, many schools will hold on to teachers they don't especially want for the entire year due to hassles and paperwork. Agencies have the churn rate factored in to their budgets and work. I live near a marginal school which is contracted for years by a large, well known and dire agency. I see so many new faces walk past me on my way home from work perhaps a new person every two weeks. In these cases it's usually the poison is both the agency and the school. But you catch my drift.

 

A large reason in not working for agencies is all the bs and tricks not to mention just getting paid at the end of the month. They all struggle with payroll because they have owners looking for big takings on marginal income.

 

Right now is the best worst time to find work. The best jobs will open in April (Mar-May). I've always had great success with Ajarn. I have worked for two agencies personally. I would never work for an agency not would I recommend anyone else doing so. There is absolutely nothing more beneficial over direct hire from my experience at five schools. Quite the contrary. If you must work, I'd take short term employment at a language school and hope they pay you. Bide your time, research the best schools. Keep an eye peeled on Ajarn. There are 2-3 decent jobs posted currently most only for 45k. One through agency. Direct hire can be problematic as well. No shortage of issues teaching public school.

Stay away from Craigslist as well.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Number 6

[otherstuff1957]

^ Good advice here.

 

Hiring season will start around the beginning of March and well-organized schools will have their new teachers hired before Songkran.  Actually paid teaching will usually begin around the 1st of May unless they start you with a Summer School course or camp.

 

The 2nd semester will start in November or late October.  Occasionally a school will lose a teacher at the end of the 1st semester, so I would blitz schools with CVs now and see if you get any bites.  If you don't get any replies by Nov. 1, look for a 6 month contract with an Agency or an hourly contract with a Language School to tide you over until the schools start hiring again.

[Number 6]

If you are a new teacher looking for a job in October is non issue but for myself flags go up if you are leaving a position or very possibly the school finds you so toxic you are dumped. Getting work in March onward avoids this stigma in addition there are many more jobs. My best luck is always found in May but you have to have balls of steel to hold out for best schools and highest salary till then but I'd say it's always been worth it for me. Finally, positions might open very late (May) when good teachers land great jobs that have taken a long time to move through hiring process. Also, quite inconvenient but first term and after new year international schools have a few openings. These are often 3rd, 2nd tier 55-65k positions.

 

Rather than sending resumes randomly I watch Ajarn like a hawk. I'm totally settled into a good, well paying job but I keep my eye on the market. I don't think sending resumes into the ether effective as OP has apparently found out. Schools only need when they need. Agencies are constantly in need because the terms are dreadful and only fools stay on. So they have vacancies and fools. Another good thing about watching Ajarn is you see all the agencies and schools (!) that burn through teachers. "Foreign management", "western management" usually not a good thing. I personally get on much better with Thais.

 

Be careful at the top. There's often lots of responsibility. If you really are not strapped for cash and enjoy free time you may be better of in a 50-55k job. For myself I would never work less than 60k (I make a good deal more) now but would recommend 2nd year teachers have a minimum standard of 45. 3rd year 50k. After that salary increases get tougher. You always have to move to make more money. Always.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Number 6

[paulikens]

23 hours ago, Number 6 said:

If you are a new teacher looking for a job in October is non issue but for myself flags go up if you are leaving a position or very possibly the school finds you so toxic you are dumped. Getting work in March onward avoids this stigma in addition there are many more jobs. My best luck is always found in May but you have to have balls of steel to hold out for best schools and highest salary till then but I'd say it's always been worth it for me. Finally, positions might open very late (May) when good teachers land great jobs that have taken a long time to move through hiring process. Also, quite inconvenient but first term and after new year international schools have a few openings. These are often 3rd, 2nd tier 55-65k positions.

 

Rather than sending resumes randomly I watch Ajarn like a hawk. I'm totally settled into a good, well paying job but I keep my eye on the market. I don't think sending resumes into the ether effective as OP has apparently found out. Schools only need when they need. Agencies are constantly in need because the terms are dreadful and only fools stay on. So they have vacancies and fools. Another good thing about watching Ajarn is you see all the agencies and schools (!) that burn through teachers. "Foreign management", "western management" usually not a good thing. I personally get on much better with Thais.

 

Be careful at the top. There's often lots of responsibility. If you really are not strapped for cash and enjoy free time you may be better of in a 50-55k job. For myself I would never work less than 60k (I make a good deal more) now but would recommend 2nd year teachers have a minimum standard of 45. 3rd year 50k. After that salary increases get tougher. You always have to move to make more money. Always.

ok thanks for all your advise. im a first time teacher &have never done teaching in my native country either so I don't think I have the luxury you have of picking and choosing. that's why I think maybe a agency would be better to start off with especially if its a short term contract just to get my foot in the door,cuz as I said I have applied for loads on ajarn & really the only ones that have replied are agencies,so while everyone says avoid them if they're ya only option then you have no choice really.what exactly are the agencies bad points? as I know one of em is not paying you on time which obviously is a major bad point,and I think maybe people have complained about they don't get the work permit sorted but I know a few teachers here and hardly any are on a WP &that's not just the agencies fault as that can be the schools fault just as much as the agency.

[youreavinalaff]

The discussion of whether to use an agency or not is about as old as the discussion about degree and non degree holders teaching English in Thailand. Everyone will have their opinion and, those opinions worth listening to, will be backed up by personal experience or, at very least, an experience by a colleague/friend/acquaintance.

 

That said, it is impossible to comment as a whole. It is impossible to have heard of or had experience with every agency out there, just as it is impossible to compare every non degree holding teacher to everyone that has a BA/MA/Phd in Education.

 

There are good and bad everywhere. There are some direct hire schools that will rip the a#@e out of you at every opportunity. There are those that will take care of you, provide all assistance required, pay salary and bonuses without and quibble and just generally respect and value you.

 

The same can be said of agencies. I have worked for a couple. They were polar opposites. One couldn't care less about the teachers, deducted pay any chance they had (sports days and exam days for example) and generally were in the game to make quick cash. The other was good. Pay on time, no deductions, extensions of stay and work permit sorted and paid for, lesson plans all supplied and lessons taught on good media system. Generally very good. A few little quirks in the running of the company but good over all.

 

For someone to say "all agencies should be avoided" is a wide generalisation. 

 

I don't think I can post names on here so I have sent you a PM, @paulikens

[Scott]

Grammar Nazi posts removed.   Stay on topic.  

 

[paulikens]

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 12:13 PM, Number 6 said:

If you are a new teacher looking for a job in October is non issue but for myself flags go up if you are leaving a position or very possibly the school finds you so toxic you are dumped. Getting work in March onward avoids this stigma in addition there are many more jobs. My best luck is always found in May but you have to have balls of steel to hold out for best schools and highest salary till then but I'd say it's always been worth it for me. Finally, positions might open very late (May) when good teachers land great jobs that have taken a long time to move through hiring process. Also, quite inconvenient but first term and after new year international schools have a few openings. These are often 3rd, 2nd tier 55-65k positions.

 

Rather than sending resumes randomly I watch Ajarn like a hawk. I'm totally settled into a good, well paying job but I keep my eye on the market. I don't think sending resumes into the ether effective as OP has apparently found out. Schools only need when they need. Agencies are constantly in need because the terms are dreadful and only fools stay on. So they have vacancies and fools. Another good thing about watching Ajarn is you see all the agencies and schools (!) that burn through teachers. "Foreign management", "western management" usually not a good thing. I personally get on much better with Thais.

 

Be careful at the top. There's often lots of responsibility. If you really are not strapped for cash and enjoy free time you may be better of in a 50-55k job. For myself I would never work less than 60k (I make a good deal more) now but would recommend 2nd year teachers have a minimum standard of 45. 3rd year 50k. After that salary increases get tougher. You always have to move to make more money. Always.

so why did you work for a agency twice if there so bad, surely after the first experience you wouldn't work for another one? just curious

[Mambowoman]

And God said unto Noah, Make thee an ark of gopher wood;

[dakineto]

Does anyone know what agencies charge schools aside from the monthly fee? I mean the introduction fee for new teachers sent to school.

[otherstuff1957]

Every contract between an agency and a school is negotiated separately, so each agency's pay is different.  However, as a general rule of thumb, agencies will be paid about 10 - 20% over the amount they pay the teachers.  Often, though not always, they get paid for 12 months of the year, while the teacher gets paid for the 9 to 10 months that they are at the school.

[wreckingcountry]

Agencies are typically paying you 50-60% of what a school is paying them.. and if they pay you at all ! Changing names of the agency is common and guess why ?

 

 

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[wreckingcountry]

Every contract between an agency and a school is negotiated separately, so each agency's pay is different.  However, as a general rule of thumb, agencies will be paid about 10 - 20% over the amount they pay the teachers.  Often, though not always, they get paid for 12 months of the year, while the teacher gets paid for the 9 to 10 months that they are at the school.

Can be a lot more ! I have known 50% of what the school pays the agency going to the teacher !


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[Isaanbiker]

On 10/6/2019 at 6:31 PM, wreckingcountry said:

Agencies are typically paying you 50-60% of what a school is paying them.. and if they pay you at all ! Changing names of the agency is common and guess why ?

 

 

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That can't be true, and schools would hire directly. Can you prove it? Of course not, because it's just not true.

 

  As one has already mentioned, I'd have thought that agencies take a percentage of the foreigner's salary, depending on the number of foreign employees.

 

But isn't that somehow common sense that an agency has to make money through paying less to employees?

 

 I don't see a problem for a newbie to work for an agency that has been on the market for many years and never changed its name.

 

 It gives you at least the chance to gain some experience you can put on your resume, and you're in the position to meet other directly hired teachers  who work at other schools. 

 

  I'd never work for an agency that I've never heard of. But it's not only the agency that has to be supportive, and some schools don't care and let foreign teachers work 22 or more hours a week.

 

 What you need to look for is a teaching position directly for the school with 12 months paid contract and an annual pay raise.

 

The contract should include sick leave and business days. And last but not least, the Thai social security where the school pays half of it. 

 

 The institution should pay for a visa and a work permit, and the Thai colleagues should be friendly and happy to have foreigners.  

 

It's not fun to work at a school where you'll always be the farang, even when all know your name. 

 

     

 

   

 

     

[wreckingcountry]

What nonsense ! What’s not true ! What I posted is fact I know OK!!!


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[dakineto]

Different agencies charge differently. I know two agencies which charge 10% - 15 %. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by dakineto

[otherstuff1957]

Why would a school pay thousands or tens of thousands per month to an agency rather than hire a teacher directly? 

 

First, hiring a teacher directly usually involves a certain level of English that many school administrators do not have.  They would struggle to write an ad, they wouldn't know where to post it and they wouldn't be able to read any responses. 

If they did call someone in for an interview, they wouldn't be able to ask them questions or understand the answers.

 

Secondly, if they did succeed in writing an ad and scheduling an interview, they would find a long line of Filipino and Nigerian applicants standing at their door.  Westerners with University degrees are rare and dying breed here.

 

Finally, if they did hire someone and he turned out to be one of those teachers who call in sick every Monday morning, they would have to figure out how to fire him and find a replacement. 

It's easier for them to just all an agent and tell them to send another warm body over if the first one doesn't work out.

[thequietman]

5 minutes ago, otherstuff1957 said:

Why would a school pay thousands or tens of thousands per month to an agency rather than hire a teacher directly? 

 

First, hiring a teacher directly usually involves a certain level of English that many school administrators do not have.  They would struggle to write an ad, they wouldn't know where to post it and they wouldn't be able to read any responses. 

If they did call someone in for an interview, they wouldn't be able to ask them questions or understand the answers.

 

Secondly, if they did succeed in writing an ad and scheduling an interview, they would find a long line of Filipino and Nigerian applicants standing at their door.  Westerners with University degrees are rare and dying breed here.

 

Finally, if they did hire someone and he turned out to be one of those teachers who call in sick every Monday morning, they would have to figure out how to fire him and find a replacement. 

It's easier for them to just all an agent and tell them to send another warm body over if the first one doesn't work out.

Or, they get a considerable kickback - which is the truth. ????

 

There's no stepping around it or trying to BS, it is what it is. A director here in the North dismissed a full NES compilation of 4, to use an agency. Now, they have Philo's and Nigerians and are happy as the proverbial pig in sheee ite. ???? Director keeps the difference that he gets to hire NES. It's a win-win I tell ya! For the director and for the director.

 

<deleted> the students and what's best for them. ????

[otherstuff1957]

^ Yes, this happens a lot too.

[Doge]

9 hours ago, thequietman said:

Or, they get a considerable kickback - which is the truth. ????

 

There's no stepping around it or trying to BS, it is what it is. A director here in the North dismissed a full NES compilation of 4, to use an agency. Now, they have Philo's and Nigerians and are happy as the proverbial pig in sheee ite. ???? Director keeps the difference that he gets to hire NES. It's a win-win I tell ya! For the director and for the director.

 

<deleted> the students and what's best for them. ????

Well, my first reaction is this obviously wasn't anywhere to teach in the first place. My second thought is why are teachers that work upcountry always so shocked when things like this occur. If you're not teaching in Bangkok or at a well known school with distinction outside Bangkok all bets are off, you get what you deserve. The issues are legion. Finally, yes merely teaching in Bangkok is no remedy for many of Thai Education's ills but at least the deck is not wholly stacked against you.

 

Teachers without options are just fast food workers standing in front of a white board.

[thequietman]

4 hours ago, Doge said:

Well, my first reaction is this obviously wasn't anywhere to teach in the first place. My second thought is why are teachers that work upcountry always so shocked when things like this occur. If you're not teaching in Bangkok or at a well known school with distinction outside Bangkok all bets are off, you get what you deserve. The issues are legion. Finally, yes merely teaching in Bangkok is no remedy for many of Thai Education's ills but at least the deck is not wholly stacked against you.

 

Teachers without options are just fast food workers standing in front of a white board.

Is is Thee Top Secondary school in the province where I live. Established over 100 years ago, and get this .......... the new director was known for corruption before and this was a move from a school he had already stolen from.

 

The staff KNEW he was corrupt before he arrived! ????

 

And, he still got the job. LOL ????

[samsensam]

4 hours ago, Doge said:

Well, my first reaction is this obviously wasn't anywhere to teach in the first place. My second thought is why are teachers that work upcountry always so shocked when things like this occur. If you're not teaching in Bangkok or at a well known school with distinction outside Bangkok all bets are off, you get what you deserve. The issues are legion. Finally, yes merely teaching in Bangkok is no remedy for many of Thai Education's ills but at least the deck is not wholly stacked against you.

 

Teachers without options are just fast food workers standing in front of a white board.

 

agree, any qualified and experienced teacher can get a good job, with a good salary and be treated with respect here in thailand.

[Doge]

On 10/19/2019 at 8:17 AM, thequietman said:

Is is Thee Top Secondary school in the province where I live. Established over 100 years ago, and get this .......... the new director was known for corruption before and this was a move from a school he had already stolen from.

 

The staff KNEW he was corrupt before he arrived! ????

 

And, he still got the job. LOL ????

This story has an exceptionally familiar ring. I too had taught at a very well known and top secondary - the incoming director under a similar cloud of suspicion. So what?? I can't make it good so I just get on with my job. So should you. If it actually impacts you then move on.

 

I would really like to know the name of this *100* year old school outside BKK because I believe only Suankularb Wittayalai, Assumption and Wattana Wittayalai can make such a claim. There are a few other top schools in Bangkok around 80-90++ years old. In fact most of the cream are about this age.

 

Yes, no surprise venerated schools have endemic corruption. It exists in Bangkok as well. Nevertheless, if you are worth you salt you can command a minimum of 50k with reasonable working conditions. You may need to move about but if you are of value you will find a school that values you.

 

Most often shrill complaints are from first, second year teachers. Teachers that simply can't deal with their Thai counterparts and/or administration. From my observations, very often they lack professional experience back home.

 

Corruption should not be important to you although we all bristle at it. It's not as though you're asked to participate or condone it. Love your kids and just teach or go work in a language center.

 

As for agencies: although there are exceptional circumstances, no one should have sites so low as to work for an agency. If you're a new teacher and agencies paying as much or even more than many schools you're looking at consider that in all likelihood you'll leave due to that agency or the poor relationship the agency has with the school which you'll be in the middle of. When you leave after one year you will burn one of 2-4 waivers, your lifeline to teaching. Personally, unless a teacher has a compelling reason to stay with an agency I tend to not think teachers under agencies at least 90% not much good. If you're good you make your own rules and negotiate your own terms. It's a job!

Edited October 20, 2019 by Doge

[wreckingcountry]

Doesn’t read like the comments of an “educated teacher “


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