The Sun Sets On A Golden Era For Foreign Workers In Thailand

[Doza]

Well the question is often posed - is Thailand less welcoming now for foreigners and foreign companies. Now here it is in the main stream media.

The sun sets on a golden era for foreign workers

By William Barnes

Published: March 22 2007 04:22 | Last updated: March 22 2007 04:22

Mark Greenwood, the first foreign stockbroker in Thailand, says he still wants to die in the country. But he is not sure right now whether he can live there.

“I think people like me feel as if they are having the door slammed in their face,” says Mr Greenwood, now a businessman. “Foreigners have made enormous contributions to Thailand, but the messages we are getting now are that Thais don’t need us or want us.”

FULL ARTICLE - Financial Times March 22 2007

[jumnien]

My intuition tells me that Mr. Greenwood is far more resentful over changes in the dancer's dress code of his favorite watering holes at Soi Cowboy than in changes in the business environment. The golden age is over. I'm sure he's investigating Venezuela and Brazil!

[Hobox]

Good article!

“This is the worst time for foreigners in recent memory. Thais have every right to turn away ruffians, but the people in charge now don’t seem to understand that without foreign knowhow this country is going to have a very hard time."

[wintermute]

I said this before..Thailand will be in the same boat as the Phillipines sooner or later. All the signs are there the same corrupt practices that caved in economic development in the Phillipines is happening in Thailand. What's even worse is that in Thailand they don't have an intellectual or educational base to build on to begin with. The future isn't Thailand..it will remain Singapore, Malaysia, and likely Vietnam in the future.

[jumnien]

“This is the worst time for foreigners in recent memory."

For the last nine years that I've been here, it's been a constant whining that “This is the worst time for foreigners in recent memory." It's been a lovely nine years to be a guest of Thailand, IMO. I look forward to many more.

[cdnvic]

My intuition tells me that Mr. Greenwood is far more resentful over changes in the dancer's dress code of his favorite watering holes at Soi Cowboy than in changes in the business environment. The golden age is over. I'm sure he's investigating Venezuela and Brazil!

I saw absolutely nothing that even hinted at that in the article.

[jumnien]

There really aren't that many scenarios to imagine if you think about it...

[WaiWai]

What's even worse is that in Thailand they don't have an intellectual or educational base to build on to begin with.

Precisely. Deliberately so, it would seem, but very dangerously so. Dangerous, too, ultimately, for those at the top of the heap, I'd think.

[jumnien]

Yes, without us white knights the kingdom would surely crumble.

What chrome-plated pomposity!

[WaiWai]

Yes, without us white knights the kingdom would surely crumble.

What chrome-plated pomposity!

Not sure whose comments you were responding to , nor why a retort of this nature appears whenever Thailand's shortcomings are mentioned.

Must be lunch time.

[billd766]

“This is the worst time for foreigners in recent memory."

For the last nine years that I've been here, it's been a constant whining that “This is the worst time for foreigners in recent memory." It's been a lovely nine years to be a guest of Thailand, IMO. I look forward to many more.

I agree with you 100%.

I live outside a small village in the central region and I have met with no animosity at all up here.

On the country I cannot remember a single occasion when anybody has been not nice to me.

All the kids wave and shout hallo as I take my 2 1/2 year old son to kindergarten and my Thai must be a bit better as more people can understand me than last year.

Nobody rips me off (a common farang complaint) and now if they understand that I need something a lot of them tell me where I can find it and draw a map as well.

Perhaps it is because I am the only resident farang around the local Thais treat me as harmless, friendly and a bit like the local village idiot which is lovely for me as I feel I am being accepted as me rather than as "just another farang".

[wintermute]

Yes, without us white knights the kingdom would surely crumble.

What chrome-plated pomposity!

I'd have to agree..the average foreigner doesn't contribute anything in Thailand. However, the current policies are alienating foreign government officials and executives of very large corporations. Those people have a lot of direct and indirect influence in the form of international banking, debt forgiveness, and foreign direct investment. They can also lobby their governments to restrict exports coming from Thailand and change their own countries policies as punitive measures. Thailand depends heavily on FDI and has unrolled many projects with significant aid coming from foreign enterprise. This could all change drastically given the most recent political slant.

[LaoPo]

The Financial Times is a serious newspaper and I find the article and its content extremely worrying -for Thailand-.

The phrase:

"The consensus among experienced foreign executives is that an older Thai elite is trying to slow, perhaps reverse, creeping foreign ownership."

is scary but true.

Like I said in a comment earlier, it's all about Greed, Power and Money amongst the Hi-So Thai elite.

Another note in this article:

"“This is still a nice place to live in, but I don’t think we’d be able to hire a senior foreign investment analyst without paying a ridiculous salary. No one who is serious about Asia wants to work in Thailand right now,” says Gillem Tulloch, head of Thai research at brokers CLSA."

Of course....the brilliant -financial- experts are hired by Singapore, Hong Kong and even Tokyo and Shanghai..... they just party and holiday in LOS but dont want to work there.

LaoPo

[wintermute]

The Financial Times is a serious newspaper and I find the article and its content extremely worrying -for Thailand-.

Wall street Journal, Bloomberg, and the Economist have all written similar articles talking about the government's latest protectionist policies too. That's 4 highly credible sources that have all said pretty much similar things.

Like I said in a comment earlier, it's all about Greed, Power and Money amongst the Hi-So Thai elite.

I don't think the everyday Hi-so rich have a lot to do with this latest bout of protectionist sentiment. It's the much older and more entrenched elite who have been around a lot longer and have had generations of wealth passed on to them who are pulling all the strings now. The "newer" rich who gained their wealth from Thailand in the last few decades came to power through the developing economy. They know full well what the power of foreign investment can do and most of them are probably just as disturbed by the turn of events.

[WaiWai]

Like I said in a comment earlier, it's all about Greed, Power and Money amongst the Hi-So Thai elite.

Really can't see how anyone could deny that.

Also, creating an illusory enemy (outsiders/foreigners) is a tried and true tactic for governments everywhere.

Edited March 23, 2007 by WaiWai

[wintermute]

Like I said in a comment earlier, it's all about Greed, Power and Money amongst the Hi-So Thai elite.

Really can't see how anyone could deny that.

Also, creating an illusory enemy (outsiders/foreigners) is a tried and true tactic for governments everywhere.

I can't think of many instances where it has worked to the benefit of the country doing it either. In the more extreme instances it's led to ruination..Argentina, Cambodia, Nazi Germany.

[billaaa777]

I'd have to agree..the average foreigner doesn't contribute anything in Thailand.

Wait a second here, I keep quite a few bars girls in jewelry. And I assure you that they are quite happy about it. I also help to pay their rent. So, I do contribute, so there!

[ThaiGoon]

"...continuing corruption scandals are not signs of an economy priming itself for ferocious regional competition."

I thought this gov't was investigating all the corruption allegations against the previous gov't..hence trying to crackdown on corruption problems? That's not a good sign? Continuing coverage of gov't's attempts to crackdown corruption by the past administrations are bad? What the..?

Seems to me the author just wanted to throw everything in the article to make Thailand look worse than it really is. I wonder what this author thinks about the recent upgrade on Thai stocks by JP Morgan from "neutral" to "overweight." JP Morgan is clueless unlike the author of this FT article I suppose.

[wintermute]

Seems to me the author just wanted to throw everything in the article to make Thailand look worse than it really is.

Yeah because it's all a foreigner conspiracy against Thailand!!!

I wonder what this author thinks about the recent upgrade on Thai stocks by JP Morgan from "neutral" to "overweight." JP Morgan is clueless unlike the author of this FT article I suppose.

Stocks aren't a direct indicator on the health or wealth of an economy just like it's not always a direct indicator on how well a company is doing either. It's a remarkably fickle market that's much more sensitive to temporary changes in investor sentiment.

Edited March 23, 2007 by wintermute

[ThaiGoon]

Fujitsu and Toshiba.....not the mention the slew of Japanese automakers who want to expand their factories are all clueless as well I suppose.

And it was also nice to see the author ended the article with a comment from a filipino who, along with millions of her compatriots, always looks at Thailand with a green eye. I'm shocked he didn't go ask some Burmese about what he thinks of situations in Thailand right now too.

Edited March 23, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[wintermute]

Fujitsu and Toshiba.....not the mention the slew of Japanese carmakers who want to expand their foctories are all clueless as well I suppose.

Japan is actually curtailing its long term expansion (5+ year) in Thailand but continuing their short term projects. The latest Japanese reports on their investments in SE Asia. Thailand ranked just above Indonesia in the "underperforming" investment category.

And it was also nice to see the author ended the article with a comment from a filipino who, along with millions of her compatriots, always looks at Thailand with a green eye. I'm shocked he didn't go ask some Burmese about what he thinks of situations in Thailand right now too.

Maybe Sonthi should declare war on them then! That'll show 'em who's boss.

[ThaiGoon]

Yeah because it's all a foreigner conspiracy against Thailand!!!

Not really. I'd rather call it, a typical example of sensationalized journalism...and a bit of a boy who cried wolf.

Stocks aren't a direct indicator on the health or wealth of an economy just like it's not always a direct indicator on how well a company is doing either. It's a remarkably fickle market that's much more sensitive to temporary changes in investor sentiment.

If the situations were really as dire as the article made Thailand out to be, why would anyone who's sensible enough ever wanna risk their money (and reputation) in SET?

[midas]

“This is the worst time for foreigners in recent memory."

For the last nine years that I've been here, it's been a constant whining that “This is the worst time for foreigners in recent memory." It's been a lovely nine years to be a guest of Thailand, IMO. I look forward to many more.

mdeland but what about the industrialist " decision-makers " i.e. - those who have to choose

where to build their next multimillion dollar factories or assembly plants ? why should they

choose Thailand now based on these reactions /feelings when they have so much more

choice ? indeed Vietnam is a very strong competitor with a workforce that is just as

willing and eager as Thailand ...............................

[ThaiGoon]

Japan is actually curtailing its long term expansion (5+ year) in Thailand but continuing their short term projects. The latest Japanese reports on their investments in SE Asia. Thailand ranked just above Indonesia in the "underperforming" investment category.

I would say that the huge plans to produce eco-cars in Thailand are probably short term projects. Also Toyota just announced that they wanna make Thailand their pickup (or truck I'm not sure) manufacturing base....basically they are planning on mainly exporting their pickups (or trucks?) from Thailand.

Maybe Sonthi should declare war on them then! That'll show 'em who's boss.

Yeah, maybe.

[wintermute]

Not really. I'd rather call it, a typical example of sensationalized journalism...and a bit of a boy who cried wolf.

I'd take the word of respected international financial press reports over the usual Thai spin of things anyday of the week. Sorry, bud.

If the situations were really as dire as the article made Thailand out to be, why would anyone who's sensible enough ever wanna risk their money (and reputation) in SET?

You can make just as much money in a crisis during a bear market as you can in booming bull market. You can short stocks, you can pump and dump, and you can speculate with short term fluctuations. A lot of the SET seems to be rising and falling in form due to stock market speculation.

[wintermute]

I would say that the huge plans to produce eco-cars in Thailand are probably short term projects. Also Toyota just announced that they wanna make Thailand their pickup (or truck I'm not sure) manufacturing base....basically they are planning on mainly exporting their pickups (or trucks?) from Thailand.

Japan isn't just unrolling factories in Thailand, it just happens to be the biggest at the moment because of previous decade's investment in factories and assembly output. Japan is the second largest economy in the world and they are well diversified in several countries in SE ,NE Asia, and the U.S. Japan already owns 90% of the domestic consumer vehicle market here so it's an easy place to grow outward into the surrounding region because of their already practical monopoly. However, there have already been weakening signs in overall investment there was an article from the Japanese financial press that rated their overall investments in SE Asia. Like I said..Thailand was just above Indonesia in underperformance. The vehicle sector may just be the only strong point in investment here.

Bottomline, Thailand is one of many places to base their assembly plants. If they decided to up and move their engineers, raw material, and management expertise then Thailand would be left with nothing.

[ThaiGoon]

mdeland but what about the industrialist " decision-makers " i.e. - those who have to choose

where to build their next multimillion dollar factories or assembly plants ? why should they

choose Thailand now based on these reactions /feelings when they have so much more

choice ? indeed Vietnam is a very strong competitor with a workforce that is just as

willing and eager as Thailand ...............................

It's not all that rosy in Vietnam right now. Try to read what's being said about the construction of oil refinery in the central part of Vietnam. I don't have the article with me, but you can alwasy google it. It can give you a better perspective of Vietnam as a place of foreign investment. In that article, it also says that Vietnam needs about $45-$60 billion worth of investment in infrastrcuture to even be on par with Thailand.

And wintermute, talking about "respected" international press, CNN's been running ads that they are the most respected news network in America. I think that kind of gives you a dose of reality about what the standards of the so called "respected" press these days.

[wintermute]

And wintermute, talking about "respected" international press, CNN's been running ads that they are the most respected news network in America. I think that kind of gives you a dose of reality about what the standards of the so called "respected" press these days.

Like I said before the Financial Times, Economist, Bloomberg, and WSJ all said similar things about Thailand's economic situation. Are you trying to say all 4 of those sources are not credible? If this is the way you feel then who is a credible source to you?

Edited March 23, 2007 by wintermute

[A_Traveller]

And wintermute, talking about "respected" international press, CNN's been running ads that they are the most respected news network in America. I think that kind of gives you a dose of reality about what the standards of the so called "respected" press these days.

Like I said before the Financial Times, Economist, Bloomberg, and WSJ all said similar things about Thailand's economic situation. Are you trying to say all 4 of those sources are not credible? If this is the way you feel then who is a credible source to you?

No they are credible publishers, but they are also news consumers. There are many things wrong here, from a long term development perspective, no one would deny that but the present criticism, not critiques, from these sources does presage in my mind the question why?, and why now? As is only too clear historically it is not difficult to seed articles and spin in the most prestigious of media.

Why for example do none of these publications make clear that the foreign business rules would be, in the main, brought into line with accepted international practice?

Regards

/edit typo//

Edited March 23, 2007 by A_Traveller

[ThaiGoon]

Japan isn't just unrolling factories in Thailand, it just happens to be the biggest at the moment because of previous decade's investment in factories and assembly output. Japan is the second largest economy in the world and they are well diversified in several countries in SE ,NE Asia, and the U.S. Japan already owns 90% of the domestic consumer vehicle market here so it's an easy place to grow outward into the surrounding region because of their already practical monopoly. However, there have already been weakening signs in overall investment there was an article from the Japanese financial press that rated their overall investments in SE Asia. Like I said..Thailand was just above Indonesia in underperformance. The vehicle sector may just be the only strong point in investment here.

Bottomline, Thailand is one of many places to base their assembly plants. If they decided to up and move their engineers, raw material, and management expertise then Thailand would be left with nothing.

I'm pretty sure that the Japanese have thought it through before they invest tens of billions of dollars in a country. And anyone with a half a brain would understand there's no way that any sensible company would just pull a plug and move out of a country after having invested tens of billions of dollars there.

The truth of the matter is the overall investment climate in Thailand is not as good as it was a couple of years ago. But it's still far from falling back into becoming the Phillipines. All the fundamentals are still strong. And to answer your last post, I'm sure Economist, Bloomberg, and WSJ are all saying this year will be a tough year for Thailand. But there's no way that any sensible analyst would make a statement that Thailand is destined to become the next Phillipines in the long term. It's just nonsense.