Final proposal - PM Johnson to unveil Brexit offer to EU

[luckyluke]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

because you want to stay. 

 

Some want to stay, some want a hard rupture.

Mr. Johnson doesn't seems to want this violent break.

Of course this is politics, so everything is deeply pre-planned and with a reason.

Is he sincere?

maybe.

Is he machiavelic ?

(Presenting some "silly" solutions to the E.U., knowing they can't accept it, and then claiming it is all the fault of the E.U. as they accept nothing ).

It is a possibility.

Each one in particular will have his own opinion about the matter.

Some will even claim their opinion is the only right one.

 

[sandyf]

14 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Scotland weren't asked.

In a nutshell, Scotland is only part of the UK when it suits Westminster.

[RuamRudy]

Scotland weren't asked.

But it did respond, and it's response was very clear.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[evadgib]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

In a nutshell, Scotland is only part of the UK when it suits Westminster.

How many English MP's are sitting in the Scottish Parliament wagging the dog?

[SheungWan]

How many English MP's are sitting in the Scottish Parliament wagging the dog?

About the name number as Northern Ireland.

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[david555]

13 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Some want to stay, some want a hard rupture.

Mr. Johnson doesn't seems to want this violent break.

Of course this is politics, so everything is deeply pre-planned and with a reason.

Is he sincere?

maybe.

Is he machiavelic ?

(Presenting some "silly" solutions to the E.U., knowing they can't accept it, and then claiming it is all the fault of the E.U. as they accept nothing ).

It is a possibility.

Each one in particular will have his own opinion about the matter.

Some will even claim their opinion is the only right one.

 

Boris delivers Brexit plan: EU's Verhofstadt says he's "NOT POSITIVE, not safeguards Ireland needs"

[sandyf]

21 minutes ago, evadgib said:

How many English MP's are sitting in the Scottish Parliament wagging the dog?

Bit of a useless comment considering one is a devolved parliament and the other is supposed to be a national parliament.

I am fairly certain that the majority of the Scots sitting in Westminster would rather be sitting in their national parliament.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Bit of a useless comment considering one is a devolved parliament and the other is supposed to be a national parliament.

I am fairly certain that the majority of the Scots sitting in Westminster would rather be sitting in their national parliament.

Is there any other country except England without one?

[RuamRudy]

Is there any other country except England without one?

I have an idea on how to remedy that situation [emoji4]

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[billd766]

3 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

.... and our EU chums could not be classed as helpful.

Actually they were very helpful to their own side and I can't blame them for that.

 

TM on the other hand was like a lost lamb surrounded by hungry wolves.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Bit of a useless comment considering one is a devolved parliament and the other is supposed to be a national parliament.

I am fairly certain that the majority of the Scots sitting in Westminster would rather be sitting in their national parliament.

Nothing stopping them finding a purely Scottish constituency and standing for that at the next GE.

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Actually they were very helpful to their own side and I can't blame them for that.

 

TM on the other hand was like a lost lamb surrounded by hungry wolves.

 

 

Would have been nice if both sides could have worked together in the interests of future relationships ...................  I know, I expect too much.

[Scott]

Troll post and replies reported and removed.  

 

[Monomial]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

The country doesn’t want to leave otherwise it wouldn’t request an extension.

 

So it’s not that the EU is not letting you leave. It’s the EU letting you stay because you want to stay. 

 

 

 

Well, that is actually the entire thrust of Boris Johnson's argument now, isn't it?  Please define "country". The EU charter specifically defines it as the national government. However, the extension is being requested by the country's parliament according to the UK government, who are additionally claiming that extension request is actually being done in coordination with the EU, rendering it illegal according to the terms of the EU charter.

 

It's a bit of a messy situation. I think it is a bit premature to say categorically that the EU is not to blame in this situation. The details of exactly who proposed the Benn Act and how it came to fruition are going to be of serious concern over the next few weeks. If the UK government can successfully show that the EU was involved in a material way in drafting that legislation, then in fact it would be the EU who is not allowing the UK to leave, albeit with the compliance of the UK parliament. The government seems to imply that they have evidence which would indicate this, although not many people outside of the UK government seem to be giving this argument much credence.

 

We'll know before the month is out.

[david555]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/03/eu-parliament-boris-johnson-brexit-plan-not-remotely-acceptable

EU parliament: Boris Johnson Brexit plan not remotely acceptable

Leading MEP says it is ‘nearly impossible’ to see how Irish border plan can be basis of deal

 

The European parliament has told Boris Johnson that his proposals for the Irish border do not “even remotely” amount to an acceptable deal for the EU, in comments echoed by Ireland’s deputy prime minister.

 

The committee of MEPs representing the parliament’s views on Brexit said the prime minister’s proposals could not form the basis for an agreement, describing them as a “last-minute” effort. The European parliament will have a veto on any withdrawal agreement.

 

more...

[oldhippy]

It's too bad that the EU is not a democracy (yet).

The European citizens do not have the right to vote in a referendum, to decide whether they want those UK hangers on to <deleted> off or not.

I am quite sure that there would be a clear majority, not a 48 - 52 draw.

 

PS. I used to be in favour of remain, because I did not understand what Brexit was all about. I understand it now, and I have become a hard core brexit fan (not a softy like Bojo).

 

[evadgib]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

It's too bad that the EU is not a democracy (yet).

The European citizens do not have the right to vote in a referendum, to decide whether they want those UK hangers on to <deleted> off or not.

I am quite sure that there would be a clear majority, not a 48 - 52 draw.

 

PS. I used to be in favour of remain, because I did not understand what Brexit was all about. I understand it now, and I have become a hard core brexit fan (not a softy like Bojo).

 

All of you or just this sn?

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

It's too bad that the EU is not a democracy (yet).

The European citizens do not have the right to vote in a referendum, to decide whether they want those UK hangers on to <deleted> off or not.

I am quite sure that there would be a clear majority, not a 48 - 52 draw.

 

PS. I used to be in favour of remain, because I did not understand what Brexit was all about. I understand it now, and I have become a hard core brexit fan (not a softy like Bojo).

 

Amazing! You might think that I typed F..... off, but I did not. I typed B.zz off, and that was replaced by <deleted>. No, I am not a rude person....

 

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

All of you or just this sn?

sn = ?

 

[nauseus]

39 minutes ago, david555 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/03/eu-parliament-boris-johnson-brexit-plan-not-remotely-acceptable

EU parliament: Boris Johnson Brexit plan not remotely acceptable

Leading MEP says it is ‘nearly impossible’ to see how Irish border plan can be basis of deal

 

The European parliament has told Boris Johnson that his proposals for the Irish border do not “even remotely” amount to an acceptable deal for the EU, in comments echoed by Ireland’s deputy prime minister.

 

The committee of MEPs representing the parliament’s views on Brexit said the prime minister’s proposals could not form the basis for an agreement, describing them as a “last-minute” effort. The European parliament will have a veto on any withdrawal agreement.

 

more...

More....

 

Verhofstadt again! The fact is that the EU Parliament won't vote against the Commission and Council so it doesn't really matter what he says.

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Amazing! You might think that I typed F..... off, but I did not. I typed B.zz off, and that was replaced by <deleted>. No, I am not a rude person....

 

Yes you buzzin' are.

[oldhippy]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Yes you buzzin' are.

No I'm not.

I this a 5 minute argument, or the full monty?

God, my fellow brexiteers really have to urgently improve their arguing skills.

 

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

Well, that is actually the entire thrust of Boris Johnson's argument now, isn't it?  Please define "country". The EU charter specifically defines it as the national government. However, the extension is being requested by the country's parliament according to the UK government, who are additionally claiming that extension request is actually being done in coordination with the EU, rendering it illegal according to the terms of the EU charter.

It's a bit of a messy situation. I think it is a bit premature to say categorically that the EU is not to blame in this situation. The details of exactly who proposed the Benn Act and how it came to fruition are going to be of serious concern over the next few weeks. If the UK government can successfully show that the EU was involved in a material way in drafting that legislation, then in fact it would be the EU who is not allowing the UK to leave, albeit with the compliance of the UK parliament. The government seems to imply that they have evidence which would indicate this, although not many people outside of the UK government seem to be giving this argument much credence.

We'll know before the month is out.

Brexiteers not having the faintest idea what to say around now as Boris is trying to play nice and that completes unhinges them.

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/03/eu-parliament-boris-johnson-brexit-plan-not-remotely-acceptable

EU parliament: Boris Johnson Brexit plan not remotely acceptable

Leading MEP says it is ‘nearly impossible’ to see how Irish border plan can be basis of deal

 

The European parliament has told Boris Johnson that his proposals for the Irish border do not “even remotely” amount to an acceptable deal for the EU, in comments echoed by Ireland’s deputy prime minister.

 

The committee of MEPs representing the parliament’s views on Brexit said the prime minister’s proposals could not form the basis for an agreement, describing them as a “last-minute” effort. The European parliament will have a veto on any withdrawal agreement.

 

more...

 

 

Excellent.

 

<deleted>, EU.

 

No Deal it is......let’s move one.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Brexiteers not having the faintest idea what to say around now as Boris is trying to play nice and that completes unhinges them.

He getting scared his do or die bluster is just that....and the yank trollop is selling her story to the highest bidder up to 265k so far ........looking forward to the dirt....

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Excellent.

 

<deleted>, EU.

 

No Deal it is......let’s move one.

I'm up for No Deal - bring it on.....

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

He getting scared his do or die bluster is just that....and the yank trollop is selling her story to the highest bidder up to 265k so far ........looking forward to the dirt....

I thought Gina was from Guyana.

[Bruntoid]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

The UK needs only to talk to the country that they wish to deal with and not wait for the other 27 countries to agree to the deal.

 

The EU/Canada deal took 10 years to sign.

 

However at the moment until Brexit is completed the UK cannot sign an agreement with other countries because the EU forbids it.

They can initiate talks - so far I believe they have South Korea, Israel and Chile in ‘rollover’ talks - whilst the Marshall Islands are playing hardball ???? 

 

Trade deals with major nations will still take years to create. 

 

However you didn’t answer the question - if the EU and U.K. are offering the same product the EU’s considerable financial muscle compared to the U.K. (GDP $17t v $3t) tells you all you need to know. 

[Bruntoid]

On 10/2/2019 at 6:05 PM, dimitriv said:

 

Ok, let's reframe my question.

 

The UK wasn't able to negotiate a better trade deal with South Korea.

 

Why do you think that the UK will be able to negotiate something better with the US or China ?  If anything at all ?  The EU has a lot more power, more weight in negotiations. Do you really think that China will be impressed by the UK and that they will give the UK anything better than the EU has now ? if they are even willing to waste their time talking ?  Did you see what happened with negotiations between the US and China ?  And US demands were not even unfair. They just wanted equal access to Chinese markets and did not even get that.  Do you really think China will bow to the UK?  With the US it is exactly the same. Trump will not give presents. Especially not when seeing how desperate the UK will be soon. 

 

 

Plus the WTO (the leavers trade body of choice) has just given ol Trump (the leavers trading partner of choice)  the green light to slap $7.5 billion of tariffs on all European countries incl the U.K. ( because we’re European) - howls of protest from the U.K. government today. 

 

So how are those trade deals going with the big boys ? ????

[beautifulthailand99]