US Military Pension Direct Deposit to Thai Banks

[kokesaat]

In the past year it's been possible to have US social security and veterans benefits directly deposited into Thai banks, no longer needing to go through Bangkok Bank New York.  Recently a veteran posted that he has had his military pension deposited directly as well.  Although DFAS website still doesn't show Thailand as an eligible country, they have emailed confirmation that, in fact, you can have your military pension directly deposited in just about any Thai bank.

Good news for veterans.

You can get the form at https://rrb.gov/Benefits/OF-1199-I

Sorry if this has already been covered.

[Pib]

When you say "just about any Thai bank" what Thai banks are excluded?

Can you post a redacted version of the DFAS response/email saying Thailand is now on the DFAS IDD list? Thanks.

[kokesaat]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

When you say "just about any Thai bank" what Thai banks are excluded?

Can you post a redacted version of the DFAS response/email saying Thailand is now on the DFAS IDD list? Thanks.

This post on another forum (in Udon) got me started:

"I started my retirement pay from DFAS going direct to SCB back in May and haven't had any problems. They use OF 1199-i and it took 2 months to make the change. They emailed me the form, I had the bank sign it then faxed it back to them."

 

I asked our Post quartermaster about it, he stated that DFAS did not list Thailand.  But he followed up with an email to them and they confirmed that Thailand was now on the list.....just the DFAS website hasn't been updated.

 

He responded by email back to me this morning:  received a reply from dfas, they said their website had not been updated.  Confirmed that Thailand is on the list for IDD

 

I have no further info beyond that.  I said "just about any Thai bank" because I thought it better to say it that way than 'any thai bank'

 

 

[noise]

I am a little confused .... unless the post is addressed to those that do not want to use Bangkok Bank.   Pensions and SS benefits have been directly deposited in Bangkok Bank accounts  for years.   And the recent change in formats required by Bangkok Bank did not visually affect recipients of U.S. govt funds.   What ever changes were required were made invisibly for the recipients.

[Pib]

30 minutes ago, noise said:

I am a little confused .... unless the post is addressed to those that do not want to use Bangkok Bank.   Pensions and SS benefits have been directly deposited in Bangkok Bank accounts  for years.   And the recent change in formats required by Bangkok Bank did not visually affect recipients of U.S. govt funds.   What ever changes were required were made invisibly for the recipients.

The OP is talking "International Direct Deposit" where DFAS uses the SWIFT system to accomplish the transfer vs the ACH system.   Two different transfer systems. 

 

You are indeed right that US govt pensions have had their govt benefit payments direct deposited to Bangkok Bank for many years....this direct deposit was via the "ACH" system.  But this is coming to an end soon unless the ACH transfer is in IAT format. 

 

Come 1 Jan 2020 those US govt benefit/pension paying agencies that are not using ACH "International ACH Transaction" (IAT) format for the ACH transfer will result in Bangkok Bank rejecting those transfers.  Please note this cutoff date has already been extended several times...original cutoff date was 1 Apr 2019. 

 

DFAS is one of those agencies where a pensioners ACH direct deposit may not be in ACH IAT format; DFAS is still using ACH standard format which means the funds are not suppose to be leaving the US but Bangkok Bank NY over the years has been allowing them to flow on to Thailand.  

 

Bangkok Bank is just complying with updated US Treasury and National ACH Assn update rules applying to transfers which are really exiting the US.  If the funds are really exiting the US then ACH transfer must be in ACH "IAT" format which provides additional info/different coding that a standard ACH transfer format.

 

If switching to the IDD transfer method which uses SWIFT you can have you benefit payment sent to any Thai bank...and to a regular savings acct that allows debit card, ibanking, etc....no need to "physically" appear at a branch with passport to accomplish a withdrawal or transfer. 

 

You can even have the restrictions lifted from your current Bangkok Bank special/restricted direct deposit acct to allow debit card, ibanking transfers/withdrawals, etc., when using IDD for the pension payments.  Basically turning the acct into a regular savings acct with no restrictions...no need to be limited by the restrictions of their special/restricted direct deposit acct.  

 

If remaining with ACH method Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank that can receive the payment and it must be received to their special/restricted direct deposit acct.

 

But there are downsides to having the payment sent via IDD vs ACH.  First, if  you payment is approximately $1000 or more the exchange rate/fees via the ACH method works out a little better than the IDD method.  And the IDD payments will not be coded as International Transfer/FTT like you are used to with Bangkok Bank when paid via the ACH system...instead it will change to Bahtnet/BTN since the final leg of the IDD transfer is a local transfer from Citibank Thailand to your Thai bank acct.  Citibank is the processor/contractor bank that the US govt is currently using for IDD to Thailand (and many other countries). 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Pib

[noise]

8 minutes ago, Pib said:

The OP is talking "International Direct Deposit" where DFAS uses the SWIFT system to accomplish the transfer vs the ACH system.   Two different transfer systems. 

 

If switching to the IDD transfer method which uses SWIFT you can have you benefit payment sent to any Thai bank...and to a regular savings acct that allows debit card, ibanking, etc....no need to "physically" appear at a branch with passport to accomplish a withdrawal or transfer....no need to be limited to the Bangkok Bank special/restricted direct deposit acct.   If remaining with ACH method Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank that can receive the payment and it must be received to the special/restricted direct deposit acct.

I read something to the effect that the U.S. govt was making what ever arrangements were needed to continue direct deposit in the correct format and that the recipients do not need to take any action.  I can not find that today, but it may not matter.   What you say makes sense and covers that issue.

 

But as to using debit cards:    I have only dealt with Bangkok Bank so I only know what their policy is.  And that is any U.S. govt funds directly deposited must be in a single name account and have counter withdrawals only.  This was driven by the SSA mainly because of too many families not notifying SSA of a death and continuing to withdraw the payments via the ATM for months and years.   That is a corporate requirement, not a branch requirement, driven by the U.S. govt.  If they did not implement that, the U.S. govt would not directly deposit pensions and benefits.   The U.S. govt also requires all banks to report all U.S. citizens' accounts if they want to have access to the U.S. financial system.

[soisanuk]

35 minutes ago, noise said:

I am a little confused .... unless the post is addressed to those that do not want to use Bangkok Bank.   Pensions and SS benefits have been directly deposited in Bangkok Bank accounts  for years.   And the recent change in formats required by Bangkok Bank did not visually affect recipients of U.S. govt funds.   What ever changes were required were made invisibly for the recipients.

Yes, government pension and SS benefits using the ACH system through Bangkok Bank NY Branch (BBNY) has been in place for years, BUT as mentioned by Pib, this will soon come to a halt in January 2020 when BBNY says they will cease accepting if they are not in the IAT (International ACH Transfer) format.  Although the ACH system implemented the requirement for IAT format if funds were ultimately destined for outside the USA in 2009, BBNY did not follow the rule.  Apparently, this was discovered and BBNY was warned that to continue a member of the ACH system they had to comply.

 

It is my understanding they did get a reprieve for a period of time to allow their customers to find alternate means of transfer - originally, April 1, 2019 was cutoff, but apparently they have been granted extensions by ACH as they continued to process domestic ACH transfers.  However, at some point, in order to remain within the ACH system, they will have to enforce the requirement.  The latest information I have seen was they would stop accepting personal domestic ACH transfers at the end of September 2019, but continue to process government pensions and SS benefits until January 2020.  I attended a Pattaya City Expats Club (PCEC) meeting on September 29 which had a representative of Bangkok Bank HQ give a presentation on BBNY's new baht remittance service - she also confirmed these cutoff dates.

 

Also, based on other threads, SS benefits can be sent using the IAT format, but apparently requires you show your Thailand address in their system.  The International Direct Deposit (IDD) system is separate and Thailand was recently added, which means it is possible to send SS & Veterans & as mentioned by OP, now DFAS for military pensions for direct deposit to a Thai bank account (including banks other than Bangkok Bank) that doesn't use the ACH system.

 

[Danthai]

Mine too. Go to Bkk branch that can process application for Direct Deposit. Must have local Thai address. They will issue your direct deposit bankbook and account number. Go to mypay account (military) and click on direct deposit and enter the NY BBK routing number and your account number. If you do before 15th they will change by EOM payday. Social security will get your information routed from local Bkk branch to BKK branch in Bkk. Bkk will send your SS information to NY branch and SS. 

 

Advise SS you contact by Email and give them your SS info, and direct deposit Account number and your local address.

 

My AF account started same month and SS two months later for third month deposit.

 

CM I/O accepted my 7 months of deposits, but advised next year we need full 12 months. No problem if you keep your money going to direct deposit.

 

[Roy Baht]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Come 1 Jan 2020 those US govt benefit/pension paying agencies that are not using ACH "International ACH Transaction" (IAT) format for the ACH transfer will result in Bangkok Bank rejecting those transfers.  Please note this cutoff date has already been extended several times...original cutoff date was 1 Apr 2019. 

Can you please tell me the source of your information regarding 1 Jan 2020 as the new cutoff date? As you note, the original cutoff date was 1 April 2019. Then, according to someone (who?) the cutoff date was to be 1 September 2019 (which has come & gone). Aside from the original cutoff date, which was posted on Bangkok Bank's New York Branch webpage, I can find no definitive source of information regarding the cutoff date.

[soisanuk]

3 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

Can you please tell me the source of your information regarding 1 Jan 2020 as the new cutoff date? As you note, the original cutoff date was 1 April 2019. Then, according to someone (who?) the cutoff date was to be 1 September 2019 (which has come & gone). Aside from the original cutoff date, which was posted on Bangkok Bank's New York Branch webpage, I can find no definitive source of information regarding the cutoff date.

I recall seeing some copies of emails from BBNY that were posted in, I believe, other threads on Thaivisa.com that showed those dates, but I didn't save the particular link to those posts. However, as noted in my post Roy Baht quoted -

Quote

I attended a Pattaya City Expats Club (PCEC) meeting on September 29 which had a representative of Bangkok Bank HQ give a presentation on BBNY's new baht remittance service - she also confirmed these cutoff dates.

I don't recall if it was during the presentation or in my subsequent conversation with her.

 

Also, I certainly cannot say that those are firm dates since BBNY has continually been moving the dates after the April 1, 2019 date - so, it is possible they could do it again. IMO, they probably will not because at some point the ACH regulators are not going to grant any more delay.  Now that they are promoting their Baht Remittance Service, they are offering another means to use BBNY to remit funds to a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand for USA folks.

Edited October 5, 2019 by soisanuk

[Pib]

4 hours ago, noise said:

But as to using debit cards:    I have only dealt with Bangkok Bank so I only know what their policy is.  And that is any U.S. govt funds directly deposited must be in a single name account and have counter withdrawals only.  This was driven by the SSA mainly because of too many families not notifying SSA of a death and continuing to withdraw the payments via the ATM for months and years.   That is a corporate requirement, not a branch requirement, driven by the U.S. govt.  If they did not implement that, the U.S. govt would not directly deposit pensions and benefits.   The U.S. govt also requires all banks to report all U.S. citizens' accounts if they want to have access to the U.S. financial system.

For benefits paid into a Bangkok Bank special direct deposit acct you can not have a debit card as you said.  This special direct deposit acct came in being decades ago for use when the benefits are paid via the "ACH" system.

 

However, when a person switches to their benefits being paid via the IDD system they can have those payments go into a regular savings acct...single owner or joint owned....and can have a debit card issue against that acct, have ibanking capability with that acct, etc.   The rules are different depending on being paid via the IDD or ACH system.  Basically, ACH is restrictive for a US govt payment to a foreign bank; IDD is not.

 

And you do not have to open a new acct to have your IDD payment to go to.  You can either have it sent to another regular savings acct you may already have with Bangkok Bank (or any Thai bank) or you can have Bangkok Bank remove the restriction (called the "O" restriction) on your current special direct deposit acct and get a debit card issue, etc.,,,basically it's now a regular savings acct.  That what we did with a family member's acct for her SS payment when switching from ACH to IDD.....got it changed from the special direct deposit acct to a regular acct.  Additionally, by keeping the same acct number the family member did not have to submit a new 1199 direct deposit form to the govt switching to a new acct which would have taken a couple of months to go into effect.  Plus you don't have the possible challenge of opening a new Thai bank acct which can be challenging sometimes even if you are a long time customer and have other accts....like the bank may require a work permit, letter from your home country embassy, etc.

 

 

[Pib]

3 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

Can you please tell me the source of your information regarding 1 Jan 2020 as the new cutoff date? As you note, the original cutoff date was 1 April 2019. Then, according to someone (who?) the cutoff date was to be 1 September 2019 (which has come & gone). Aside from the original cutoff date, which was posted on Bangkok Bank's New York Branch webpage, I can find no definitive source of information regarding the cutoff date.

 

It's in the primary thread talking the Bangkok Bank ACH policy change....see below posts from JimGant and Somewhere in Time at bottom...the posts contain Bangkok Bank NY responses as to revised lines in the sand.  I've been told the same face-to-face when asking HQ Bangkok Bank here in Bangkok. Bangkok Bank is "not" updating their website to reflect the revised dates for whatever reasons...I expect they don't want to admit to slipping the dates several times...their website still says 1 Apr 2019. 

 

Bangkok Bank has shifted the date for personal bank transfers several times...started off being 1 Apr 2019...latest line in the sand was 1 Oct 2019.  More people are now seeing they personal bank transfer being rejected....but some are still getting through.

 

Now for the cut off date for govt pensions that has also shifted  few times.   But the latest line in the sand is 1 Jan 2020.  See below post with a Bangkok Bank NY reply starting such.....plus in the recent briefing a Bangkok Bank rep gave at the Pattata Expats Club that rep said 1 Jan 2020 also.

 

 

 

 

[kokesaat]

I'm guessing the new procedures, bypassing Bangkok Bank of NY, will save pensioners a few dollars a month as well.

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, kokesaat said:

I'm guessing the new procedures, bypassing Bangkok Bank of NY, will save pensioners a few dollars a month as well.

Bangkok Bank NY is "not" being bypassed if person's govt pension is being paid via ACH, but it must be ACH "IAT" format come 1 Jan 2020.   Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability.

 

However, since IDD uses the SWIFT system it can be paid to any Thai bank and does indeed bypass Bangkok Bank NY as the US govt routes the funds from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York through their processor/contractor bank of Citibank on to whatever Thai bank you use. 

 

Actually, if swithing to IDD unless your benefit payment is less than approx $800 to $1000 the amount posting to your Thai bank acct after the exchange rate and fee dust settles will be a little less than if using the ACH method.  So, you would give up a few dollars to being able to send to any Thai bank acct, have a debit card, not be required to physically go to a bank to withdraw/transfer funds since you could do that via ibanking transfer, ATM withdrawal, etc. 

 

While the IDD fees are minimal....only a Bt100 receiving fee since the US govt pays all other fees.....the IDD exchange rate is a little less than the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming ACH or SWIFT transfers such as US govt pension payments.   See below post which prices out the two transfer methods.  Whether you are using SSA, VA, or DFAS IDD the IDD exchange rate will be the same as it's a US govt wholesale exchange rate and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and Citibank are the players in getting the money into your Thai bank acct.

 

 

[radiochaser]

After an account is set up for direct deposit of Social Security funds int to a Thai bank account, what is the currency that is withdrawn from the account?

Can I withdraw it in dollars or must the withdrawal be in baht?

[Pib]

After an account is set up for direct deposit of Social Security funds int to a Thai bank account, what is the currency that is withdrawn from the account?

Can I withdraw it in dollars or must the withdrawal be in baht?

SSA "IDD" to Thailand is only to a Thai baht acct as SSA sends baht.

But if using the "ACH" system funds can be sent to either a Foreign Currency Deposit acct or a Thai baht acct as SSA sends dollars.