Climate Change: An unstoppable movement takes hold

[Nyezhov]

19 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I  can find  no realistic relevance in the presentation  of  either mortality  or insurance cost  data or other that defies the evidence of  climate  change. That  any population or  infrastructure unprepared or vulnerable in the path of  extreme weather is anything other than a demonstration of financial concern or liability is  no scientific measure of the  weather event itself. Modern communications and services  can now better avert such impact to the benefit of people and those primarily  concerned  with financial liabilities.

Peaks  in land based phenomenon  are in scientific analysis only a measure of  effect rather than base  cause. Unfortunately the  common perception of  climate issues is  based on personal experience as land based .

Realistic science looks to the origin of climatic events which are  generated  by the oceans.

What  makes that difficult is to not only measure  but to provide definitive short term prognosis because unlike land  masses the oceans  move. The  accumulation of data as to how that  effects  weather takes time for longer term predictive outcome despite well established factual data in support of oceanic variance in historical current flows.

IMO it is  of less priority to allocate blame to climate change than it is to  recognize that  it is a reality and globally  needs addressing in defense against even if it were to  be reversed in  20 years.

It is  in that reality that it is quite possible that humanity could need  to abandon the priority of expansion in wealth in favor of the simple need to eat ! Pertinent to that is the historical evidence that popular  revolutions have occurred by  cause of  such drastic need.

You said nothing again. 

[Nyezhov]

28 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I would be interested in how you differentiate between your view of Greta Thunberg as an abused child, and the millions if not billions of children who are abused under the aegis of religious instruction.

Billions? Isnt that a bit histrionic? And why are you setting up a straw man, its beneath you. Not getting any today? Shoot 42 over?  

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

54 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

I've always wanted to visit the US south, other than that, I've never actually met a confederate. Might have something to do with me not being American. They do good BBQ and got Nascar so I'd probably like it there, plus if you got beef with them, I'll likely like them. I myself am well below the 2.1 replacement rate with no additional kids planned, so doing my part, as is most of the 1st world.

 

Now, the solution I'm advocating is voluntary sterilization for $ in addition to what Attenborough & co are proposing: https://populationmatters.org/solutions 

Ah...so you are advocating "voluntary" sterilization for dollars,huh?

 

Starting with the (black) Africans,Chinese,Indians,Filipino's and Indonesians..I guess.Is there a vast demand in those continents/countries for such "voluntary" sterilization?how much are you willing to pay?

 

Now where might one have read about such schemes before?

[brokenbone]

as far as i can see theres 2 ways of halting population.

1] let nature have its course by stop sending aid and block refugees

2] increase wealth to western standard by industrialize

the developing world in addition to increase aid,

i expect this route to be more costly then anyone could

ever expect, and still not reach western standard

for a long variety of reasons

 

it seems wealth encourage less breeding,

not least pensions.

perhaps the best approach is to simply donate a pension (from west to 3rd world) to those that

can prove they havnt multiply,

going straight into the hand of the receiver bank account

without middle hand in those governments or anything else

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by brokenbone

[DrTuner]

9 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

how much are you willing to pay?

Market price. I suppose around 100$ in the middle of a jungle. Far cheaper than pouring $ into development programs that have run for decades with next to nothing to show for it. Except population getting as large as the gifts from heaven can support.

 

Oh yeah and get rid of the idiocy at catholic church about "filling the earth". It's full already. And while at it, legalize euthanasia. Might just as well crop from both ends.

Edited October 6, 2019 by DrTuner

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, brokenbone said:

as far as i can see theres 2 ways of halting population.

1] let nature have its course by stop sending aid

2] increase wealth to western standard by industrialize

the developing world in addition to increase aid,

i expect this route to be more costly then anyone could

ever expect, and still not reach western standard

for a long variety of reasons

 

it seems wealth encourage less breeding.

 

"it seems wealth encourages less breeding."

 

It certainly does-one can see this in Thailand-plus some form of stable government,a reasonable degree of justice and stability and some form of social security.

[AussieBob18]

52 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I would be interested in how you differentiate between your view of Greta Thunberg as an abused child, and the millions if not billions of children who are abused under the aegis of religious instruction.

Fair point.  But not all religious 'indoctrination' is unhealthy to the upbringing of the child, like what was done to Tiger and is being done to Greta.  Tiger had to go through hell before he finally realised the mistakes and 'made up' with his Thai Mother - but he eventually came good and he deserves total respect for what he has done in that 10 year period - not just winning the Tour Championship and then the Masters - he won back the People's hearts (mine too).  I hope Greta quickly gets out of this limelight and is allowed to develop and grow up ger own way - Tiger never was.  But getting back to religion - yes it is unhealthy for children to de 'dominated' by any religion. But as long as they are not 'dominated' forcibly, and they are allowed to grow into it themselves - or not - then that is OK.  Many examples of both outcomes in that regards - but not all is 'bad' just because one does not agree philosophically with religion per say.  

[Odysseus123]

3 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Market price. I suppose around 100$ in the middle of a jungle. Far cheaper than pouring $ into development programs that have run for decades with next to nothing to show for it. Except population getting as large as the gifts from heaven can support.

 

Oh yeah and get rid of the idiocy at catholic church about "filling the earth". It's full already. And while at it, legalize euthanasia. Might just as well crop from both ends.

A hundred dollars each-to sterilize about..2 billion people?

 

Yes I can just see 'em marching in dense columns as far as the eye can see all singing "Hey ho,hey ho it's off to be sterilized we go.."

Whilst the good Dr Tuner gives 'em a 100 US dollars each at the gate.

 

I have mentioned US dollars as you wouldn't be such a cheapskate as to pay them in British,Australian,Canadian or Kiwi currency,would you?

[monkfish]

2 hours ago, brokenbone said:

factually incorrect, but that doesnt take away

he is a fantastic presenter of nature programs. (my favorite)

holoscene period hasnt ended just yet,

and we still have by geologic history standard a uniquely stable climate.

but if we look at the trend, and we have no reason not to,

we can see we are about to enter another ice age

 

Oh I see do you think he's maybe been misinformed?
Maybe by the organisation he's representing the WWF (World Wildlife Fund)?
Who as we all no is totally politically motivated organisation probably run by dimwits.
Unlike Trump and and lobbyists of course whose interests do not lie with the reviving of the US Coal and Oil Industry

[DrTuner]

23 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

A hundred dollars each-to sterilize about..2 billion people?

 

Yes I can just see 'em marching in dense columns as far as the eye can see all singing "Hey ho,hey ho it's off to be sterilized we go.."

Whilst the good Dr Tuner gives 'em a 100 US dollars each at the gate.

 

I have mentioned US dollars as you wouldn't be such a cheapskate as to pay them in British,Australian,Canadian or Kiwi currency,would you?

Actually I think 10 bucks would probably be enough. Just start with that and go up and down until the sweet spot is found. With the millions of dollars that are poured uselessly into Africa each year should be sorted in a year or less.

[brokenbone]

25 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Oh I see do you think he's maybe been misinformed?
Maybe by the organisation he's representing the WWF (World Wildlife Fund)?
Who as we all no is totally politically motivated organisation probably run by dimwits.
Unlike Trump and and lobbyists of course whose interests do not lie with the reviving of the US Coal and Oil Industry

i think he either couldnt be arsed to research available graphs, or didnt understand them, or is on an agenda to dismiss available data.

he starts out stating weve had stable temperature for 12k years, while its only 10k years.

he then proceeds to inform us that its now unstable,

as if the compared to the period of -12k to 10k years ago

with a huge increase in temperature, the current all but

non existent bump, would be smaller ??! dafug ?

the current increase wouldnt measure at all under this scale, and most certainly not compared to the leap 12k-10k years ago. -if you see that, you are hallucinating,

maybe hes just getting too old to keep up

Edited October 6, 2019 by brokenbone

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Actually I think 10 bucks would probably be enough. Just start with that and go up and down until the sweet spot is found. With the millions of dollars that are poured uselessly into Africa each year should be sorted in a year or less.

And who,pray tell,are the people who will "just start with that"?

Edited October 6, 2019 by Odysseus123

[rvaviator]

Hmmmm put aside who is right and who is wrong with climate change.... I just want to breath clean air, swim in clean water .... and not step in rubbish everywhere ... If in the long run that will require some increase in tax - 200thb for a plastic bag at Tesco ;-) .... Then I am cool with that ....


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[brokenbone]

1 minute ago, rvaviator said:

Hmmmm put aside who is right and who is wrong with climate change.... I just want to breath clean air, swim in clean water .... and not step in rubbish everywhere ... If in the long run that will require some increase in tax - 200thb for a plastic bag at Tesco ???? .... Then I am cool with that ....


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

same here, but i think 40 baht will do the trick.

more importantly i want to see a decomposable alternative to the plastic bag, i dont see how the thai way of life can be maintained without a plastic bag to bring home the food.

i also want to see a serious effort in 10 times more trash cans around the city, and more frequent picking up the trash and bring it to process plant

[CygnusX1]

On 10/5/2019 at 8:54 AM, DavisH said:

Have the screws been put of China yet? Check out any global emmissions map. They are the largest polluters on the planet.

Maybe we should give China a break. That country’s former one child policy might have been an appalling breach of human rights, but it’s prevented the emission of more carbon dioxide than all of the world’s wind turbines, solar panels and electric cars combined.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Market price. I suppose around 100$ in the middle of a jungle. Far cheaper than pouring $ into development programs that have run for decades with next to nothing to show for it. Except population getting as large as the gifts from heaven can support.

 

Oh yeah and get rid of the idiocy at catholic church about "filling the earth". It's full already. And while at it, legalize euthanasia. Might just as well crop from both ends.

Been mulling over the idea of how start the ball rolling on population control.

I would advocate sterilisation of certain groups to begin with.

Not in any particular order but the first three groups would be accountants, politicians and lawyers this could be followed up, at a later stage, to include anyone who thinks religion is a good idea. People who want to talk about sex while in the pub should initially be put on a watch list.

Edited October 6, 2019 by overherebc

[brokenbone]

17 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Been mulling over the idea of how start the ball rolling on population control.

I would advocate sterilisation of certain groups to begin with.

Not in any particular order but the first three groups would be accountants, politicians and lawyers this could be followed up, at a later stage, to include anyone who thinks religion is a good idea.

culling and/or castration of individuals and organizations that cherry pick data like starting points in graphs for the purpose of misleading public & politicians to further an agenda aimed at influencing global politics would be a good start. i believe a properly executed castration can have a therapeutic effect on pathological lying,

and i want to research about it,

and build up a large statistical base

how castration affect liars ethics

Edited October 6, 2019 by brokenbone

[Nyezhov]

I can see the whinging now in TVF circa 2087 about how the vendors are using disgusting palm oil to fry up some Pad Krapow Baby.

 

 

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

culling and/or castration of individuals and organizations that cherry pick data like starting points in graphs for the purpose of misleading public & politicians to further an agenda aimed at influencing global politics would be a good start. i believe a properly executed castration can have a therapeutic effect on pathological lying,

and i want to research about it,

and build up a large statistical base

how castration affect liars ethics

It would certainly have a good effect if they had singing as a hobby. The Castrati voices were reputed to be angelic.

[brokenbone]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

It would certainly have a good effect if they had singing as a hobby. The Castrati voices were reputed to be angelic.

 

[Cryingdick]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:28 PM, edwinchester said:

The science is undeniable but people choose, for whatever reason, to ignore it and the consequences.

Our kids will have a <deleted>ty life and our grandkids even <deleted>tier.

 

Your kids, your kids my friend.

[CygnusX1]

On 10/5/2019 at 8:28 AM, edwinchester said:

The science is undeniable but people choose, for whatever reason, to ignore it and the consequences.

Our kids will have a <deleted>ty life and our grandkids even <deleted>tier.

I’ll bet that even if some of the more dire predictions of climate change come to pass, constantly improving technology means that your kids and grandkids will still enjoy a better life than you.

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

And who,pray tell,are the people who will "just start with that"?

I think the perfect candidates would be doctors without borders. Or that populationmatters org. I suppose UN could coordinate it and measure the effects.

Edited October 6, 2019 by DrTuner

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

Not in any particular order but the first three groups would be accountants, politicians and lawyers this could be followed up, at a later stage, to include anyone who thinks religion is a good idea. People who want to talk about sex while in the pub should initially be put on a watch list.

I think anybody with an active instagram account can be put on the list too. And people who use hashtags. #useless.

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Maybe we should give China a break. That country’s former one child policy might have been an appalling breach of human rights, but it’s prevented the emission of more carbon dioxide than all of the world’s wind turbines, solar panels and electric cars combined.

That it did. It's one of the very few things commies got right, the other one that pops to mind was getting rid of religions.

[DrTuner]

37 minutes ago, CygnusX1 said:

I’ll bet that even if some of the more dire predictions of climate change come to pass, constantly improving technology means that your kids and grandkids will still enjoy a better life than you.

All one needs to do is to look back two generations, about 50 years. We've come a long, long way since then. And it's accelerating. Unfortunately the brains of a large part of the population are very change resistant, something like a climate change is a huge threat to them. For others it's just business as usual.

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, brokenbone said:

 

That was inevitable. Remember this one?

 

 

And what did that achieve?

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Billions? Isnt that a bit histrionic? And why are you setting up a straw man, its beneath you. Not getting any today? Shoot 42 over?  

 

 

 

1.4 billion Muslims in the world, and they are quite fecund. Add in Christians, and we are getting up there.

I don't consider it's straw man. On the one hand, we have a child who is being educated on the basis of scientific facts; some claim brainwashed. On the other hand, we have a lot of children who are educated to believe in something that cannot be seen, heard or felt.

It's obviously not beneath you to speculate on my sex life or golf form. I suppose I have to make allowances, vicarious pleasures may be all you have left.

For the record, an online survey conducted by our national broadcaster ( coincidentally today ) reveals I am getting more than 91% of Australians in my age cohort. How do you like them apples?

[Nyezhov]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

On the one hand, we have a child who is being educated on the basis of scientific facts; some claim brainwashed. On the other hand, we have a lot of children who are educated to believe in something that cannot be seen, heard or felt.

Well I cant see, hear or feel dark matter but they have me convinced it exists. Now where did I hide my quark?

 

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's obviously not beneath you to speculate on my sex life or golf form. I suppose I have to make allowances, vicarious pleasures may be all you have left.

Im not speculating. Im asking. Its not like you to be so curmudgeonly. Constipated? 

 

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

For the record, an online survey conducted by our national broadcaster ( coincidentally today ) reveals I am getting more than 91% of Australians in my age cohort. How do you like them apples?

Does that survey include the sheep farms? Or ranches? Or brothels or orgies or whatever you call a bunch of Aussies and sheep.

 

Although in your defense, you guys did show a set of major balls at 3rd Ypres.

[Elad]

Below is a graph showing a generalised temperature history of the Earth relative to the current GMST, the temperature scale is qualitative (colder and warmer). The time scale is in millions of years, and at this scale the glacial and interglacial periods are not shown, but major ice ages are shown with blue bands.

 

For the present time at the top of the graph you can see we are heading into an ice age, in fact we have been in one for the last 2.4 million years and the conditions of today's climate is due to the fact that we are in an interglacial period that started around 10,000 years ago.

 

If human carbon emissions are the cause of temperature rises in the last 150 years then it might be a good thing.

Anthropogenic carbon emissions could be the only way of controlling the climate and saving us from plunging into a major ice age.