Is tourism in Thailand set to get worse before it gets better?

[Reigntax]

10 hours ago, PatOngo said:

I would like to nominate you as the next Minister for Tourism. TAT want to speak with you also. ????

He is clearly already on the payroll.

The TAT version of Steven

[baansgr]

2 hours ago, HLover said:

And what is that?

What does Thailand offer the tourist? Most people look at reviews befor deciding and booking a holiday and have anticipation at enjoying a break from work in some exotic far away place...reviews on Thailand are very bad stating about ripoffs, dual pricing, violent taxi drivers, corrupt police and officials, dirty beaches, garbage strewn roads, bad service snd language skills etc etc etc..

[baansgr]

3 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

The Thai/Chinese are the backbone of the Thai economy, they know how to do business, without them the country would be worse than Myanmar 20 years ago. The new Chinese immigrants somehow get around immigration and right to buy housing obstacles, they might be obnoxious but the Chinese know how to get things done and how to circumvent the bureaucratic idiocy here.

Really, so Mr Xain Kwan Chow can expect to have his name as owner on the back of a land Chaonte...

[kingofthemountain]

5 minutes ago, baansgr said:

What does Thailand offer the tourist? Most people look at reviews befor deciding and booking a holiday and have anticipation at enjoying a break from work in some exotic far away place...reviews on Thailand are very bad stating about ripoffs, dual pricing, violent taxi drivers, corrupt police and officials, dirty beaches, garbage strewn roads, bad service snd language skills etc etc etc..

And you forgot in the endless list road accidents and sinking boats

[Thongkorn]

5 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

And you forgot in the endless list road accidents and sinking boats

 

11 minutes ago, baansgr said:

What does Thailand offer the tourist? Most people look at reviews befor deciding and booking a holiday and have anticipation at enjoying a break from work in some exotic far away place...reviews on Thailand are very bad stating about ripoffs, dual pricing, violent taxi drivers, corrupt police and officials, dirty beaches, garbage strewn roads, bad service snd language skills etc etc etc..

Sounds like a good adventure Holiday to me,

[CGW]

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

Like they did in 1997?

I am not pro a strong baht or Thai in any way, but they are in a completely different situation now to what they were in in 1997 when the Baht was not so strong and locked into the USD, Look at their reserves, the banks learnt a hard lesson in 1997 and took measures to make sure it wouldn't happen again - surprisingly!

I also would like to see a weak Baht, the problem is the rest of the world is in such lousy shape! Tourism growth has been phenomenal, it was a lot pleasanter here when tourism was 25% of what it is now!

Last time tourism started to drop, the Chinese arrived on mass, quite why & how that came about is beyond me? surely they are running out of people that they can entice here given they are not offering a great product in return anymore!

[wisperone]

11 hours ago, cmsally said:

Not really that simple, Chinese tourists will be following Chinese investment, so as to fill Chinese pockets. I live in the main tourist area of Chiang Mai and every new investment is either Chinese building on land leased for 30 years or Chinese / Thai consortiums buying and building. Looking at the amount of money that is flowing in , I would doubt that Chiang mai will be left off the Chinese itineraries anytime in the near future.

Besides, the Chinese are use to the air pollution. They won't notice it....just like home.

[DrTuner]

I'd say no. It's set to get worse before it gets even worse than that. Steady decline into the night since .. ages, but the latest accelerant got into place in 2014.

[pieeyed]

Turning into a hassle and an <deleted> of a place.

 

[aspenbkk]

15 hours ago, PatOngo said:

I would like to nominate you as the next Minister for Tourism. TAT want to speak with you also. ????

 

yes is he walter mitty or mystic meg what rubbish places are empty .

[Zikomat]

Thailand will be OK without a single tourist. Let's stop discussing this idiotic topic for many years already. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Zikomat

[Soikhaonoiken]

Tourism will continue to fall until Thailand sorts the strength of the Baht, many people who have come to visit me over the past years have stopped coming due to the strong Baht.... once the Baht goes weaker the tourists will return to get value for money.. 

[neeray]

5 hours ago, baansgr said:

What does Thailand offer the tourist? Most people look at reviews befor deciding and booking a holiday and have anticipation at enjoying a break from work in some exotic far away place...reviews on Thailand are very bad stating about ripoffs, dual pricing, violent taxi drivers, corrupt police and officials, dirty beaches, garbage strewn roads, bad service snd language skills etc etc etc..

"Most people look at reviews before deciding and booking a holiday ....... "

 

Personally, I don't read travel reviews. There are probably many like me. But I do read a lot of mainstream news. Frequently, various references appear relative to The Kingdom, in what I read, that negatively describe Thailand. Example: Only just today this appeared "The 20th and 21st centuries have seen a number of military coups all around the world- like in Thailand, where military coups occur an average of every seven years."  within a Trump impeachment-related article.

Such negative references are commonly seen in mainstream news, and no doubt affect tourism.

[yogi100]

12 hours ago, rickudon said:

ARRIVALS are up. But the long stay western tourists are being replaced by 3-7 day Chinese and Indians. The Chinese tourists are plateauing, western tourists in slow decline, only india is a growth market - and they are notoriously careful with their money. These days also more people are doing several countries, and only stay a few days.

 

Pollution, litter, filthy water are all putting people off returning. Many resorts are seriously overcrowded - the infrastructure cannot cope. Too many hotels fighting for customers. Last couple of times I stayed at hotels occupancy was under 50%. The high baht and more cynical pricing in restaurants and other services is also putting people off.

 

So more arrivals, but QUALITY of the tourist experience is declining.

If "many resorts are seriously overcrowded" how is it that 'too many hotels fighting for customers" and that the "last couple of times I stayed at hotels occupancy was under 50%"

[simon43]

In recent years Thailand’s tourist industry has gone from strength to strength...

 

This is how the OP started and IMHO, this is simply not true.  The whole article is based on a false statement.

 

Tourist numbers have certainly gone from strength to strength.  Major players in the hotel sector have no doubt benefited.  But the small hotel or guesthouse owner, or local Thai restaurant certainly has not.

 

I built a small hotel in Phuket for wife #3 around 2012.  The hotel was located very close to the busy international airport.  (Actually, I built a total of 4 such mini-hotels at the airport...).

 

But then many others jumped on the bandwagon, building similar small hotels.  The number of such businesses jumped from a few to more than 100, (according to booking.com search).

 

Were all these businesses making mint?  No!  There were far too many hotels for the modest increase in tourist numbers.  The revenue from these tourists was simply spread more thinly amongst all these small hotels.

 

And then the Chinese businesses came and built larger hotels at the airport, ignoring the planning laws and hotel licence requirements, (I know this for a fact - so many totally illegal hotels owned by Chinese businessmen).  They did deals with the Chinese tour companies and the local small hotels were left out.

 

Then the Thai economy started to tank, with foreign tourists choosing to visit Vietnam or Myanmar.  In order to survive, the big hotels reduced their room rates to be on a par with the local 2 star businesses....

 

So now you have 4-star quality, illegal Chinese-owned hotels charging the same room rate as the local 3 and 2-star hotels.  Guess where the tourists choose to stay?  The local Amphur insists that the Thai-owned businesses pay all relevant taxes and licences etc, while the illegal Chinese hotels somehow 'avoid' these extra costs.

 

I've monitored the income for my ex's business for the last 6 years, (her booking software generates useful stats and reports).  Each year she has to reduce the average guest room-rate in order to survive.  Her local competitors and business colleagues are suffering in the same way.  What tourism business there is for the smaller hotel/guesthouse is now of the backpack and cheap-charlie variety.

 

As others have commented, IMHO, there will be no upturn to the tourism sector.  It will continue to head downwards.  Lots of foreign tourists perhaps, but ever-reducing income for the average small business.

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm.... Yes

[bkk6060]

9 hours ago, baansgr said:

What does Thailand offer the tourist? Most people look at reviews befor deciding and booking a holiday and have anticipation at enjoying a break from work in some exotic far away place...reviews on Thailand are very bad stating about ripoffs, dual pricing, violent taxi drivers, corrupt police and officials, dirty beaches, garbage strewn roads, bad service snd language skills etc etc etc..

Hmmm

Well, they keep coming and could careless.

Unless, 40 million people have no way to access online reviews of Thailand....

[Airbagwill]

For the last 2 or 3 decades, Thailand has ridden the wave of tourism. It hasn't required much skill or intellect, the numbers just kept rising.

Now faced with fluctuations and fundamental problems, the country and the tourist industry finds itself ill-eqipped to deal with changing situations.

Thailand has no reliable statistic gathering and due to graft and nepotism there are many people in high positions who are not up to the jobs they have. This leaves the country unable to properly assess the situation and unable to plan for the future. All they can do is rely on knee-jerk reactions and unresearched dictums which will do nothing in the long term.

[Nowisee]

19 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

...A slight bump on the road and Thailand will lose A LOT of Chinese tourists and then it trickles down to other nationalities.

Agent Smith: Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. Instead you multiply, and multiply, until every resource is consumed. The only way for you to survive is to spread to another area.

 

13 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

...The new Chinese immigrants somehow get around immigration and right to buy housing obstacles, they might be obnoxious but the Chinese know how to get things done and how to circumvent the bureaucratic idiocy here.

This is not a good attribute, they have and are damaging their own countries economic balance.

Rightly so they are obnoxious... 

 

9 hours ago, baansgr said:

reviews on Thailand are very bad stating about ripoffs, dual pricing, violent taxi drivers, corrupt police and officials, dirty beaches, garbage strewn roads, bad service snd language skills etc etc etc..

Locals from Vietnam, Malaysia and Philippines have said to me their trips to Thailand were difficult because the lack of (English) communication... 555.  

 

4 hours ago, Soikhaonoiken said:

Tourism will continue to fall until Thailand sorts the strength of the Baht, many people who have come to visit me over the past years have stopped coming due to the strong Baht.... once the Baht goes weaker the tourists will return to get value for money.. 

Not just tourism.  Commerce is taking it in the a$$.  I can buy high end electrics cheaper in the farangland, so I just wait and buy on my trips.  

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Yinn said:

Kao Lak clean, nature, new resort, wonderful. Good for Chinese, good for farang family and group. Tour company like to recommend. Good package for tourist, free massage, free cocktail, free thai cooking class. People like it.

From my recollection, land owners in Khao Lak were forced out by big business interests after the Tsunami. I hope any new owners that were in the wrong do go broke- Karma!

 

22 hours ago, rooster59 said:

I was speaking to a number of hotelier GM’s in Bangkok and they are expecting 2020 to be down on numbers and they also said the resort industry so far this year had been ‘a disaster’.

IMO good news. Those resorts have destroyed the beaches of Thailand, burying the actual delights under concrete and putting  beach holidays out of reach of less affluent people. Well deserved downfall.

[thaibeachlovers]

The solution is so easy, but will never, IMO, be adopted.

Go back to 90 days visa exempt arrivals for people from western countries ( that actually spend money on local businesses ), allow back to back stays, and require all beach resorts to set aside some rooms for cheap charley tourists. 

That was how the beaches were developed back in the 80s, and loads of bagpackers thronged the country. Concentrating on wealthy visitors and discouraging bagpackers has contributed to the decline of local businesses not in the Chinese orbit.

 

It won't, IMO, happen, because the authorities don't want western tourist any more, far as I can tell from everything they are doing

[quadperfect]

I do think things are going to get worse. I dont think in my lifetime things will get better.

With hong kong as a example of a once solid foundation. I believe brexit is going to have a devistation for europe. I believe the usa  china trade war will end badly for both countrys.. I believe the usa will go to war before the end of the year.

And i also am prepping for a stock market crash in usa and for americans to be in a great great depression. 

So for me its all downward from here. The thai economy will be devistated as it will be a global depression . Thailand cant escape whats comming. No one can.

 

[ding]

My 2 Baht...

Until a large neighboring nation state has a significant economic decline - it will get worse, much worse.

 

I can see any given immigration agency reacting in less than effective ways to it. exacerbating problems and killing the cure.

Edited October 7, 2019 by ding

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The solution is so easy, but will never, IMO, be adopted.

Go back to 90 days visa exempt arrivals for people from western countries ( that actually spend money on local businesses ), allow back to back stays, and require all beach resorts to set aside some rooms for cheap charley tourists. 

That was how the beaches were developed back in the 80s, and loads of bagpackers thronged the country. Concentrating on wealthy visitors and discouraging bagpackers has contributed to the decline of local businesses not in the Chinese orbit.

 

It won't, IMO, happen, because the authorities don't want western tourist any more, far as I can tell from everything they are doing

That would have worked 10 years ago, too late now.

[DLock]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The solution is so easy, but will never, IMO, be adopted.

Go back to 90 days visa exempt arrivals for people from western countries ( that actually spend money on local businesses ), allow back to back stays, and require all beach resorts to set aside some rooms for cheap charley tourists. 

That was how the beaches were developed back in the 80s, and loads of bagpackers thronged the country. Concentrating on wealthy visitors and discouraging bagpackers has contributed to the decline of local businesses not in the Chinese orbit.

 

It won't, IMO, happen, because the authorities don't want western tourist any more, far as I can tell from everything they are doing

A lot of valid points.

 

Thailand tourism was build on the back of mostly middle class families and adventure tourists looking for something exotic and reasonably priced. And they came back year after year, bring friends and family to enjoy Thailand's beaches, food, cheaper shopping, party scene and smiles.

 

Most of that is gone, and so have the people that built Thailand tourism. They have all moved on.

 

Now, Thailand ignores what worked, and looks to China and India or wherever else they can get warm bodies from that may be satisfied with Thailands dirty beaches, rubbish tip mentality, scams and bad attitudes.

 

Tourism has peaked. Thailand has peaked...it's now just a matter of how far Thailand sinks. I hope it sinks a lot. The Governments general arrogance and indifference to tourists and foreigners was also formed on the back of never-shrinking tourism.

 

But this knee jerk, scattergun approach will fail...

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, DLock said:

A lot of valid points.

 

Thailand tourism was build on the back of mostly middle class families and adventure tourists looking for something exotic and reasonably priced. And they came back year after year, bring friends and family to enjoy Thailand's beaches, food, cheaper shopping, party scene and smiles.

 

Most of that is gone, and so have the people that built Thailand tourism. They have all moved on.

 

Now, Thailand ignores what worked, and looks to China and India or wherever else they can get warm bodies from that may be satisfied with Thailands dirty beaches, rubbish tip mentality, scams and bad attitudes.

 

Agree, yet i find most Thai people i deal with, to be lovely folks, and i hope for some miracle to happen.

Now, if they only could stop building useless malls and filling the once pristine beaches with ugly concrete hotels...

[MaxLee]

TM 28 and TM 30 , yes....

[DLock]

3 minutes ago, MaxLee said:

TM 28 and TM 30 , yes....

 

TM30, 90-day reporting, 15-day visa's for Chinese and Indian, Visa on Arrivals....all built on the back of never ending tourism growth.

 

They could do what they wanted and tourists just kept coming.

 

So they did. They created draconian and time wasting "tourist control measures" (TCM) to make believe they were in control.

 

Well guess what? Tourism is declining....fast. How many of these TCM's will be "temporarily" removed to boost tourism. How long will they drudge on through useless administrative chaos just to save face.

 

For 20 years I defended Thailand, and laughed at the doom and gloom and "final nail in the coffin" posts. No more....I'll get my hammer...

[fruitman]

On 10/6/2019 at 6:31 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Did it ever cross Yinn's mind that not all the people want the same?

Some people like nice and clean nature.

Some people like to party in Pattaya.

Some people like mountains and don't care about the beach.

Some people travel with their kids.

Some people don't travel with their kids and don't want to see any annoying brats.

 

Some like the beach but want to smoke there and be in the shade...

Some like the beach but only when there are lifeguards and police (who speak english and we can trust).

Some people book expensive resorts and expect the staff to speak decent english and have standards.

 

Well the list is endless....it's all about thailand being too expensive now and having low standards.

[morrobay]

23 minutes ago, fruitman said:

Some like the beach but want to smoke there and be in the shade...

Some like the beach but only when there are lifeguards and police (who speak english and we can trust).

Some people book expensive resorts and expect the staff to speak decent english and have standards.

 

Well the list is endless....it's all about thailand being too expensive now and having low standards.

Expensive/exchange rate. Folks will put up with bad attitudes and all the endless BS, you and everyone else can list. They put up with it before but with a good exchange rate. Now with this ridiculous (for what your getting) exchange rate folks are just not going to have it anymore. Way too many good options now. We will see how these oblivious, last card, masses of Indians and Chinese works out.