Mandatory health insurance due for long stay tourists

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Exactly. I think the clause about the cabinet resolution is going to be the stumbling block. And there's no need for it to be there. All they really need is the company to confirm the 400/40. As far I know the resolution doesn't add any additional requirements. As TI seems to have farmed all of this of to the insurers, I'm wondering it they might be the ones who actually drew up that certificate. 

 

TI farming it out to local insurers is very much the problem and has been from the beginning.. And may be why, despite multiple prior reports that foreign policies would be allowed,. we now seenothing in the police order about it and  a provision in the website the police order refers to that allows it  only for the first year. Can't expect much else if local insurers are allowed to decide this, they have a vested financial interest.

 

One can appreciate that TI would be overwhelmed by the complexity of health insurance and want this handled for them but they need to utilize an entity that is impartial with no conflict of interest such as the OIC.

 

I very much suspect the 400/40 bit, which we all know to make no sense and to create huge problems and excessive cost, , was proposed by a local insurer. There are 1 or 2 who had pre-existing policies structured like that.

[Exploring Thailand]

Yes. If the government outsources anything to the private sector, it really needs to have some kind overseer in there to make sure the entity it outsources to acts in the public interest rather than its own interest.  Can't see that happening though!

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Is the information regarding the certificate on headed notepaper something you have learned about from talking to the Thai insurance companies? The only certificate I've seen is the one for foreign companies. If there is flexibility in exactly what the companies can write, that would help a lot.

You don't need a certificate for thai companies, because you have to pick one from the list of accepted companies. 

[saengd]

24 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

The question not being asked is why would some people apply for a OA visa in the first place. I can think of two types:

1) The person is naive and doesn't know there are other ways to retire in Thailand. ie Non Imm O or Elite visas. But these visas have financial requirement inside Thailand.

2) The other type of person knows the rules and can't or doesn't want to comply with the financial rules, ie no embassy funds guarantee letter, needs 800/400K in a Thai bank for months, or monthly foreign transfers.

 

The advantage of getting a OA (with a two year stretch) is gone,

In order to retire in Thailand everyone (95%)will need to go the Non Imm O based on retirement or marriage. So they will either have to meet the financials or use an agent. 

 

I feel that the new rule was specific for OA visa because it was a work around.

I don't know what work around you refer to, when I got my O-A visa in London in 2004 I was required to show proof of funds on deposit along with a UK Police background check, it was also the type of visa advised by the RTE in London at that time. Granted those funds were not required at that time to be on deposit in a Thai bank although it was suggested that they ought to be. But who retires to Thailand and leaves their funds overseas, I certainly didn't, shortly after I moved here those funds were all transferred to HSBC Thailand in Bangkok.

Edited October 16, 2019 by saengd

[sqwakvfr]

Speaking strictly as a “naive” person who obtained an OA some years ago I disagree with the comments of Mr. Gallagher.

 

Imagine you want to retire and live in LOS and you are in Los Angeles.  You hear about a long term Visa that is available at the LA Thai Consulate.  You meet the requirements and apply.  The Visa is then granted and one can arrive and stay up to almost two years.  

 

No need to have money in a foreign bank or go the Non Imm O 90 Day and then conversion process at Immigration.  It was the best option for me.  Even with the mandatory Health Insurance Requirement it could still be the best option for me.  I purchased and maintained Health Insurance during my entire stay in LOS.  Honestly being in essence “forced” to purchase a new Health Insurance Policy that is poor value for the money is part of the new process now.  Therefore, as i have heard many times in the past “when in Rome”.  

 

Different Perspective without passing judgement.  

[jimn]

21 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

The question not being asked is why would some people apply for a OA visa in the first place. I can think of two types:

1) The person is naive and doesn't know there are other ways to retire in Thailand. ie Non Imm O or Elite visas. But these visas have financial requirement inside Thailand.

2) The other type of person knows the rules and can't or doesn't want to comply with the financial rules, ie no embassy funds guarantee letter, needs 800/400K in a Thai bank for months, or monthly foreign transfers.

 

The advantage of getting a OA (with a two year stretch) is gone,

In order to retire in Thailand everyone (95%)will need to go the Non Imm O based on retirement or marriage. So they will either have to meet the financials or use an agent. 

 

I feel that the new rule was specific for OA visa because it was a work around.

I agree with everything you have said ecxcept your last sentence, the fact that its OA is just a coincidence. I think after October 31st the OA visa will be dead in the water and the greedy Thai insurance companies will not get their expected take up of their expensive policies.

[Sheryl]

You don't need a certificate for thai companies, because you have to pick one from the list of accepted companies. 

You need a certificate FROM them. To show Embassy on visa application and Imm on subsequent entry.

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[Sheryl]

The question not being asked is why would some people apply for a OA visa in the first place. I can think of two types:
1) The person is naive and doesn't know there are other ways to retire in Thailand. ie Non Imm O or Elite visas. But these visas have financial requirement inside Thailand.
2) The other type of person knows the rules and can't or doesn't want to comply with the financial rules, ie no embassy funds guarantee letter, needs 800/400K in a Thai bank for months, or monthly foreign transfers.
 
The advantage of getting a OA (with a two year stretch) is gone,
In order to retire in Thailand everyone (95%)will need to go the Non Imm O based on retirement or marriage. So they will either have to meet the financials or use an agent. 
 
I feel that the new rule was specific for OA visa because it was a work around.

You left out: people living in a country whete the Thsi Embassy wil not issue non-O (or for that matter METV) to retitees? Only O-A or O-X.

If you read the website of Thai Embassy and Consulates in the US, O-A and O-X are presented as the only visa for retirement.

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[Exploring Thailand]

1 hour ago, FredGallaher said:

The question not being asked is why would some people apply for a OA visa in the first place. I can think of two types:

1) The person is naive and doesn't know there are other ways to retire in Thailand. ie Non Imm O or Elite visas. But these visas have financial requirement inside Thailand.

2) The other type of person knows the rules and can't or doesn't want to comply with the financial rules, ie no embassy funds guarantee letter, needs 800/400K in a Thai bank for months, or monthly foreign transfers.

 

The advantage of getting a OA (with a two year stretch) is gone,

In order to retire in Thailand everyone (95%)will need to go the Non Imm O based on retirement or marriage. So they will either have to meet the financials or use an agent. 

 

I feel that the new rule was specific for OA visa because it was a work around.

In my case, I'm coming to the end of retirement extension. The year proved to be more expensive than I anticipated, meaning I have to transfer another 800k. With the GBP/THB at a ten-year low, the prospect of leaving the money in the UK was attractive. Pretty much on the day I was about to buy my ticket to return to the UK and apply for an O-A, they announced the new rules.  I haven't decided yet whether to continue with the O-A or not. I'm going to submit the application without the insurance and see what happens. If I do decide to transfer the funds from the UK, I've missed the 3-month pre-seasoning for another extension, so I would have to start again from scratch.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, jimn said:

Not doubting your word, but I had a quick look. That appears to be correct and its very supprising, as other consulates in other countries offer them. Just be thankfull that the US have not started to use e visa yet. Have a look at the UK site if you fancy a laugh. You can register and start a dummy application, lie and say you are from the UK and see what the pitfalls are coming the way of every visa applcation soon.

If/when the US start to use the E-Visa application system, then the 'O' Visa will be available for retirees over 50 years old.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, saengd said:

But who retires to Thailand and leaves their funds overseas

Quite a few unfortunately.

Some are still able to obtain Embassy Income letters, without any proof of funds in Thailand.

 

A Norwegian expat passed away yesterday.

Been sick for a month, in ICU for the last 2 weeks.

Extension based on retirement, Embassy Income letters, no Thai bank account, withdraws via an ATM as funds required using his debit card.

 

Another unpaid hospital bill going on the record.

[nrasmussen]

Go right back to the beginning and read everything again. The mandatory insurance is only for those on the O-A retirement visa

Indeed for those *entering* on an O-A visa.

[Gweiloman]

Quite a few unfortunately.
Some are still able to obtain Embassy Income letters, without any proof of funds in Thailand.
 
A Norwegian expat passed away yesterday.
Been sick for a month, in ICU for the last 2 weeks.
Extension based on retirement, Embassy Income letters, no Thai bank account, withdraws via an ATM as funds required using his debit card.
 
Another unpaid hospital bill going on the record.

This is why I posted in another thread that I would not be surprised if the insurance requirement would be extended to those on Non-O monthly income basis. For the 800/400k bunch, immigration knows the bank details and the bank account can be garnished. To me the 400k deposit/in patient coverage amount is too much of a coincidence.


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[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

Sorry to disagree, but the Thai consulate in Los Angeles list Non Immigrant O. Its a 90 day visa that needs to be extended within Thailand or do a border run.  Of course if extended the Thai Bank financials apply. Whereas, the OA financials can be in a US Bank without seasoning. 

You are right that the Non Imm O is not listed as Retirement, but in fact that's how it's applied.

No, it does not list Non Imm O for retirement. it states:

 

"Non – Immigrant Visa Category “O” : Those who wish to stay with family in Thailand (Thai Family) or wish to do volunteering work with the state enterprises or social welfare organizations in Thailand (Volunteering)."

 

The other Embassy/consultates in US say the same though soem expand a bit and include both Thai family and being a family member of someone living/working in Thailand.

 

 

And you will be asked to provide documentation of the family relationship to get the non O visa. You cannot get one for retirement in the USA. Believe me, I know. I have researched this including contacting Embassy and  a visa agent.

 

 

[bangkokbanjo]

I just got the insurance required from a company outside Thailand.  They signed the required certificate as well.  Details below:

 

I stay in Thailand for six months every year and spend the other six months in the US.  I always get an OA visa because I truly don't like doing visa runs, (ME tourist visa I would still need a visa run and also I would need to be employed or a student).  You can make an OA Visa last two years if you return to Thailand prior to the Visa expiring.  This year, I needed a new OA Visa.  The confusing part to me was I can get my visa prior to Oct 31, but I will be arriving the end of November.  There have been multiple opinions on whether I would need the insurance since it comes into effect after the 31st, but arriving after that.  Not wanting to take the chance on being rejected when I arrive in Thailand, I decided to secure the insurance (I usually got Travel Insurance, which frankly had a lot more coverage).  I secured a global insurance plan from Regency they have specifically for Thailand.  They sent me the policy and the signed legal document i need to confirm the coverage.  No issues at all.  

t

[Straight8]

On 10/11/2019 at 1:59 PM, rocketdave said:

I also can't understand how some people get hospital treatment without paying, a friend went into hospital in Rayong and had to pay 10,000 Baht on entry before they would even look at him. His bill was less than that and he got a refund of the balance.

 

What are you on about. You say he got treatment without paying but then you say he paid 10,000 and got a refund on the balance.

 

At a guess, he still got ripped off. Treatment for whitey is not free.
 

 

[Sheryl]

I just got the insurance required from a company outside Thailand.  They signed the required certificate as well.  Details below:
 
I stay in Thailand for six months every year and spend the other six months in the US.  I always get an OA visa because I truly don't like doing visa runs, (ME tourist visa I would still need a visa run and also I would need to be employed or a student).  You can make an OA Visa last two years if you return to Thailand prior to the Visa expiring.  This year, I needed a new OA Visa.  The confusing part to me was I can get my visa prior to Oct 31, but I will be arriving the end of November.  There have been multiple opinions on whether I would need the insurance since it comes into effect after the 31st, but arriving after that.  Not wanting to take the chance on being rejected when I arrive in Thailand, I decided to secure the insurance (I usually got Travel Insurance, which frankly had a lot more coverage).  I secured a global insurance plan from Regency they have specifically for Thailand.  They sent me the policy and the signed legal document i need to confirm the coverage.  No issues at all.  
t

Thanks for that and good to know Regency will sign. Have you submitted their certifucate to an Embassy yet? Please post details ... which Embassy/Consulate and how they respond. Also may I ask your age? And how long polucy renewal is guaranteed for?

I would encourage anyone wanting to go the foreign policy route to purchase a policy through a Thailand based broker specializing in health insurance for expats. They are well aware of the new requirements and will help get the certificate as well as provide any needed help with claims afterward.

For that matter I would advise going through a broker if deciding to buy a policy from one of the local companies as well. Perhaps even more so, as from my research many of them have very limited ability to communicate in English and many of the policies gave important limutations that an applicant might not realize....and claims problems seem to be more common with Thai companies.

Note that it is still unclear if foreign policies will be accepted after the first entry on an O-A. Though should be by the time you need to make a second entry (clear, I mean. I can't say whether clear yes or clear no).

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[Exploring Thailand]

13 hours ago, bangkokbanjo said:

secured a global insurance plan from Regency they have specifically for Thailand.  They sent me the policy and the signed legal document i need to confirm the coverage.  No issues at all. 

Thanks for the info. Are you talking about these packages? I don't see one specifically for Thailand. 

[jimn]

8 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Thanks for the info. Are you talking about these packages? I don't see one specifically for Thailand. 

Crazy prices. I can get insurance from UK based company for a fraction of the prices quoted.

[jimn]

On 10/16/2019 at 6:27 PM, Tanoshi said:

If/when the US start to use the E-Visa application system, then the 'O' Visa will be available for retirees over 50 years old.

That will be good news for @Sheryl but the the bad news starts with trying to use the new e visa system. I think a 1st year college student could have done a better job with the software, its appalling.

[Tanoshi]

13 hours ago, jimn said:

That will be good news for @Sheryl but the the bad news starts with trying to use the new e visa system. I think a 1st year college student could have done a better job with the software, its appalling.

Agreed, but it works fine using IE or Edge as your browser.

 

A friend in the UK was cursing, swearing and ripping his hair out trying to register and apply for the SE Non O Visa. I told him to try IE or Edge.

An hour later I received the message 'done'.

[jimn]

52 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Agreed, but it works fine using IE or Edge as your browser.

 

A friend in the UK was cursing, swearing and ripping his hair out trying to register and apply for the SE Non O Visa. I told him to try IE or Edge.

An hour later I received the message 'done'.

Yes I have been using Edge, its still not good though. I have just been playing around with it for when I when I will use next year. FYI, I recommend anyone in the UK thinking of using the Evisa system to avoid it if you can. I believe Hull and Glasgow will accept face to face applications. In fact Hull will accepted copies of the documents by e mail and they forward to London. You then visit Hull after London approve the visa to get the visa sticker. I dont think they accept postal applications though.

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, jimn said:

Yes I have been using Edge, its still not good though. I have just been playing around with it for when I when I will use next year. FYI, I recommend anyone in the UK thinking of using the Evisa system to avoid it if you can. I believe Hull and Glasgow will accept face to face applications. In fact Hull will accepted copies of the documents by e mail and they forward to London. You then visit Hull after London approve the visa to get the visa sticker. I dont think they accept postal applications though.

Correct, no postal option available at Hull.

Submit documents online by email, then take original documents to obtain Visa in person after approval by London.

A friend just applied for the SE Non O based on marriage at Hull. After 5 days he received an email stating he'd forgotten to send proof of finances (bank statements) Doh!

He emailed them Tuesday, so hoping for a reply to collect his Visa early next week.

 

If you live in Portsmouth, a trip to Hull would be a bummer.