Hotel manager salary in Chiang Mai

[Vacuum]

What does a "Hotel Manager" actually do to make his/her salary?

[khunPer]

There is a "Thailand Salary Guide 2019" here – managers with 5+ years experience typically from 80k baht a month and up to 200k (or more?), there is no salary mentioned for managers with less than 5-years experience (however, don't presume they work for free)...????

 

My next door Thai neighbor is a manager (but not hotel), and he makes more than 300k a month.

 

Might be that less experienced managers, and some foreigners, can be found for (a lot) less plus room and board...????

[Gweiloman]

There is a "Thailand Salary Guide 2019" here – managers with 5+ years experience typically from 80k baht a month and up to 200k (or more?), there is no salary mentioned for managers with less than 5-years experience (however, don't presume they work for free)...[emoji846]
 
My next door Thai neighbor is a manager (but not hotel), and he makes more than 300k a month.
 
Might be that less experienced managers, and some foreigners, can be found for (a lot) less plus room and board...[emoji848]

That’s a very high salary, especially for a Thai in Thailand. Does he work for a MNC? I can’t imagine a Thai corporation paying such salaries unless he is top management/director level.


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[Dante99]

6 hours ago, Bassosa said:

 

 

We were thinking of offering 17k-20k base salary plus bonuses based on occupancy numbers and holiday pay of one month.


 

You will not get much of a manager for that, likely somebody lacking competence or looking to find a way into the till or even both in one.

 

A trustworthy house maid with 5 years good experience and no education can make 15K+ working in a quality home, that is with a live in room and meals.  Basic maid in easily makes 10-12K. So 17k for a manager has to be on the bottom of the barrel.

[BestB]

2 hours ago, Bassosa said:

Thanks for your comments. Will give it some thought.

You mention that a yearly bonus is better than a performance-based one? Why is that? I always thought that it would be better to offer some skin in the game, so a busy hotel actually is lucrative for the employees? We're actually considering a longevity bonus of sorts as wel...

The condo is in Nimman, but the hotel is in the old town, so the employee doesn't live onsite. I understand that this doesn't necessarily stop them from taking toiletries and toilet paper. We're still figuring out how to control that.

For 2 reasons

1. What i found is that Thai are not very good at understanding performance base and for example if they get bonuses through out the high season but no bonuses throughout the low they will simply quit, because their rational is it is not their fault its low season, so they should be getting bonus either way

2. In Thailand, yearly bonus is the standard

3. You may find someone working for a full year would be a miracle

 

Example for you, housekeeping staff in my place are super happy during high season because they get lots of tips, in low season they quit because not as much tips or no tips at all, and naturally no work either. but they not willing to understand low/high and expect to make same kind of tips all year round.

 

I up the salary for staff who work for long time and show interest in their job, all past employees believe just showing up to work is enough reason to get payrise. They do as little as possible but start to whinge and cry demanding pay rise. Latest case, i issued one with 2 warning letters for failing to perform and consistently creating problems of some nature. Instead of changing her ways, she started to complain that she should be getting pay rise because she worked for almost a year.

 

I see you have Western ideas of how to run a business, you can pack your ideas and flush it down the toilet. This is NOT how Thai think and operate. They nicer you are the less employees will do and once they <deleted> you off to the limit with doing nothing  and you speak out, they will quit without even telling you.

 

They show up for interview in flip flops and pajamas, they do not know their working history or at times even names of the places where they worked.

 

When i first opened up, i brought my Western style management and ideas. and it failed miserably over and over and over again. I quickly learned Thai way of management and since then life became much simpler and less losses.

 

You will not be able to work out staff on site using hotel belongings as their own. I had staff who would steal from the kitchen and when caught their excuse was they only ate leftovers. They drunk hotel water, even off duty , with excuse well its only water. as for toilet paper, you become cheap charlie for bringing it up.

 

A busy hotel means high staff turnover because "tired" and "too much work", not busy hotel is high staff turnover, because "boring" or "no tips" or "nothing to do"

 

You can not win, the only way to get them excited is to make work a fun place where they can do whatever they want, have fun with their mates and phones and not deal with any kind of problems at all.

 

Should they cause some major drama, they would not earn up to it and would expect you to wear the costs, if you do not , you are stupid boss and they quit.

 

My advice would be to upsell good manager once he/she proven to be worthy, instead of starting with a high. Meaning, IF he/she proves to be hard working person, honest and doing the right thing, one of the rewards would be the condo (free room) If he/she achieves whatever you expected you reward it with a bonus, so its appreciated instead of expected, because yearly bonuses are expected, irrespective of performance.

 

[Bassosa]

27 minutes ago, BestB said:

For 2 reasons

1. What i found is that Thai are not very good at understanding performance base and for example if they get bonuses through out the high season but no bonuses throughout the low they will simply quit, because their rational is it is not their fault its low season, so they should be getting bonus either way

2. In Thailand, yearly bonus is the standard

3. You may find someone working for a full year would be a miracle

 

Example for you, housekeeping staff in my place are super happy during high season because they get lots of tips, in low season they quit because not as much tips or no tips at all, and naturally no work either. but they not willing to understand low/high and expect to make same kind of tips all year round.

 

I up the salary for staff who work for long time and show interest in their job, all past employees believe just showing up to work is enough reason to get payrise. They do as little as possible but start to whinge and cry demanding pay rise. Latest case, i issued one with 2 warning letters for failing to perform and consistently creating problems of some nature. Instead of changing her ways, she started to complain that she should be getting pay rise because she worked for almost a year.

 

I see you have Western ideas of how to run a business, you can pack your ideas and flush it down the toilet. This is NOT how Thai think and operate. They nicer you are the less employees will do and once they <deleted> you off to the limit with doing nothing  and you speak out, they will quit without even telling you.

 

They show up for interview in flip flops and pajamas, they do not know their working history or at times even names of the places where they worked.

 

When i first opened up, i brought my Western style management and ideas. and it failed miserably over and over and over again. I quickly learned Thai way of management and since then life became much simpler and less losses.

 

You will not be able to work out staff on site using hotel belongings as their own. I had staff who would steal from the kitchen and when caught their excuse was they only ate leftovers. They drunk hotel water, even off duty , with excuse well its only water. as for toilet paper, you become cheap charlie for bringing it up.

 

A busy hotel means high staff turnover because "tired" and "too much work", not busy hotel is high staff turnover, because "boring" or "no tips" or "nothing to do"

 

You can not win, the only way to get them excited is to make work a fun place where they can do whatever they want, have fun with their mates and phones and not deal with any kind of problems at all.

 

Should they cause some major drama, they would not earn up to it and would expect you to wear the costs, if you do not , you are stupid boss and they quit.

 

My advice would be to upsell good manager once he/she proven to be worthy, instead of starting with a high. Meaning, IF he/she proves to be hard working person, honest and doing the right thing, one of the rewards would be the condo (free room) If he/she achieves whatever you expected you reward it with a bonus, so its appreciated instead of expected, because yearly bonuses are expected, irrespective of performance.

 

Christ, I didn't know it was this bad. Work ethics bizarre to say the least...

My partner was telling me similar things. Try people out and see if you can find a diamond in the rough. 

Thanks for your comments.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Bassosa

[Dante99]

1 minute ago, Bassosa said:

Christ, I didn't know it was this bad. Work ethics bizarre to say the least...

And he just hit a few of the high spots.  You are in for a real ride unless you just sell the place soon.  Sally has been trying politely to tell you too.

 

Frankly if you think what BestB has told you is bad, you are totally unprepared.  You may note that it is not just farangs who have experiences like BestB described, it happens to many if not most Thais who are managing businesses too.  The work ethics are not bizaar, they are the norm, well known and discussed in most books about doing business or living here.  

 

You are entering a new business in a culture you apparently do not understand very well, you are entering a struggleing industry in decline with a substantial failure rate.  

 

Do you bring a wealth of hospitality experience to the table or is this your first hotel?  My guess is the latter based on your comments about staff to room ratios.

 

Best of luck.

 

 

[Bassosa]

25 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

And he just hit a few of the high spots.  You are in for a real ride unless you just sell the place soon.  Sally has been trying politely to tell you too.

 

Frankly if you think what BestB has told you is bad, you are totally unprepared.  You may note that it is not just farangs who have experiences like BestB described, it happens to many if not most Thais who are managing businesses too.  The work ethics are not bizaar, they are the norm, well known and discussed in most books about doing business or living here.  

 

You are entering a new business in a culture you apparently do not understand very well, you are entering a struggleing industry in decline with a substantial failure rate.  

 

Do you bring a wealth of hospitality experience to the table or is this your first hotel?  My guess is the latter based on your comments about staff to room ratios.

 

Best of luck.

 

 

Typical Thaivisa, so negative... 

 

Yes, the hotel business is tough, especially now and we have to compete (hard). Luckily, we have a good product with some unique USPs at an A+ location and some commercial rental income to go with it.  

 

To put everyone's mind at ease: we both have experience in hospitality. My partner owns a serviced apartment business (120 rooms) which is doing very well catering to mostly digital nomads and Koreans and I have worked in hospitality for 7+ years, including the purchase and turnaround of a restaurant business.

Trying to understand the Thai work ethic is part of my due diligence and I'm grateful for some of the comments.

Hope that puts everyone's mind at ease.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Bassosa

[cmsally]

Hope you remembered your hotel license for when the next crackdown happens.

Then there will be the new land/building tax starting next year. Apart from that should be OK if the tourists turn up. The other big one is if the pollution will be as bad this year.

Not being negative but things certainly more upbeat in the past.

[Bassosa]

11 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Hope you remembered your hotel license for when the next crackdown happens.

Then there will be the new land/building tax starting next year. Apart from that should be OK if the tourists turn up. The other big one is if the pollution will be as bad this year.

Not being negative but things certainly more upbeat in the past.

We're building to code and according to hotel licensing laws. 30% green space, wide corridors, fire safety measure, correct roof slope, galaes, the lot.

Cost us millions.

Thanks for the support.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Bassosa

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

You will not get much of a manager for that, likely somebody lacking competence or looking to find a way into the till or even both in one.

 

A trustworthy house maid with 5 years good experience and no education can make 15K+ working in a quality home, that is with a live in room and meals.  Basic maid in easily makes 10-12K. So 17k for a manager has to be on the bottom of the barrel.

Thought exactly the same.. Friend of the wifes is a simple shop manager for mid 30s plus a share of income.. 50 - 60k for high season and 40 plus for low.. No education, low effort / workload but honest and doesnt steal. 

 

Hell a decent english speaking waitress in a farang centric place is looking at 12 - 15 

[cmsally]

19 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

We're building to code and according to hotel licensing laws. 30% green space, wide corridors, fire safety measure, correct roof slope, galaes, the lot.

Cost us millions.

Thanks for the support.

Oh the whole kaboodle ! Best of luck! Hope tourism improves next year because it certainly wasn't great this year.

 

[Bill97]

 


Trying to understand the Thai work ethic is part of my due diligence ...



 
 


 
 


 

Why didn’t you do the due diligence before you put the money on the line like the usual investment practice?



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[DLock]

The biggest mistake many foreigners seem to be making is thinking a Foreigner can understand and manage Thais - they can't. 

 

You need a really good Thai Number 2 who can take your plans or vision and communicate it to the staff and manage them appropriately, discipline when necessary and recruit/fire as needed. Thais respect Thais....not foreigners.

 

...now finding that trustworthy Number 2 is not easy, but when you find them, running a business becomes so much easier.

 

All my number 2's are Western educated, speak perfect English and can bridge the gap between what you want, and how to make it happen.

[luckyluke]

 Member Yinn is working in the sector, and is Thai. 

 

Her opinion/approach would certainly be interesting to read. 

[BestB]

25 minutes ago, DLock said:

The biggest mistake many foreigners seem to be making is thinking a Foreigner can understand and manage Thais - they can't. 

 

You need a really good Thai Number 2 who can take your plans or vision and communicate it to the staff and manage them appropriately, discipline when necessary and recruit/fire as needed. Thais respect Thais....not foreigners.

 

...now finding that trustworthy Number 2 is not easy, but when you find them, running a business becomes so much easier.

 

All my number 2's are Western educated, speak perfect English and can bridge the gap between what you want, and how to make it happen.

That is very true, but very hard to find number 2. My number 2 has been with me for 8 years and she no longer lets me speak with staff whenever there is an issue, not because she thinks i can not manage them, but because she knows they will look me straight in the eyes and lie. So she always speaks with them first and then gives me watered down version, giving me some time to process and calm my anger before acting on it ????

 

In my first years, not only i use to go crazy mentally but physically also. at times did get physical as well.

 

Funny thing in Thailand, they know other person is lying but will pretend its acceptable as long as excuse is good enough.

[Dante99]

Betting those number 2s are making a lot more than 17-23k the OP talked about.  

 

How do you put a cost on going crazy and getting physically sick?  

 

I congratulate you guys on getting through it successfully.  I managed it for some years okay but decided anything over 5 or 6 employees was too much.  They just got too much <deleted> going on between them when the numbers got large.

 

[Bassosa]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

That is very true, but very hard to find number 2. My number 2 has been with me for 8 years and she no longer lets me speak with staff whenever there is an issue, not because she thinks i can not manage them, but because she knows they will look me straight in the eyes and lie. So she always speaks with them first and then gives me watered down version, giving me some time to process and calm my anger before acting on it ????

 

In my first years, not only i use to go crazy mentally but physically also. at times did get physical as well.

 

Funny thing in Thailand, they know other person is lying but will pretend its acceptable as long as excuse is good enough.

Interesting!

This is how I already work with my partner. She acts as a buffer and together we not only get to to bottom of things, we also come up with a way to solve the issue, avoiding direct confrontations.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Bassosa

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

That’s a very high salary, especially for a Thai in Thailand. Does he work for a MNC? I can’t imagine a Thai corporation paying such salaries unless he is top management/director level.

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No, Thai company, but I think it might depend of business, size of company, and location.

 

I was also surprised at frist, but later realized that some Thais are very well paid.

[BestB]

53 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Betting those number 2s are making a lot more than 17-23k the OP talked about.  

 

How do you put a cost on going crazy and getting physically sick?  

 

I congratulate you guys on getting through it successfully.  I managed it for some years okay but decided anything over 5 or 6 employees was too much.  They just got too much <deleted> going on between them when the numbers got large.

 

no, not sick but physical, as in grabbing by the neck and throwing out the door.

 

or when a 50 kg Somchai tries to take a swing because caught red handed stealing knocking him out in front of all staff and customers.

 

Not my finest hour, but unlikely he will take a swing again in the future not only at his boss but any foreigner ever again

 

I also would not call i get through successfully, i am just managing to get by with minimal financial losses and somewhat mentally sane.

 

I have gone grey and have lost some hair and do not believe its due to age, but due to constant idiotism(if there is such a word and if there is not, then there is one now ???? )

 

I also work 19 hours per day, so perhaps the reason for keeping on going is the fact that i am always at work.

 

Can i keep on going for much longer? not really as health wise i am starting to feel it but not rich enough yet to retire and anything else i would attempt to do would require having to work with the same kind of people.

 

But most certainly agree with you, the less staff the better.

 

I know a few guys who became very successful, in financial terms.

 

Have known them for 15-18 years and one thing all have in common, initially all went through the same nightmare, all warned me NOT to get into any business in Thailand.

 

But the reason for their "happy" life now is that they made enough money to stop to care about how much they are loosing.

 

Even with number 2, their ability is limited and they still have to run everything by you and at times its very hard to remain calm when you have to listen to the most idiotic excuses or behavior and struggle to understand how a a human being can do something as stupid as that and still managed to get through life.

 

Perfect example is CCTV, why? how or what goes through the mind of these people is beyond me, You would think they understand CCTV is recording, which means it can be played back, it is NOT a TV which you watch and once you watched it, episodes are gone. But you would be wrong, i catch them out, i warn them its on the CCTV and they insist on lying. I play it back for them, its a FACT now, but they will continue to insist or come up with something even more idiotic and then the best part is it is not them who <deleted> up but YOU who is stupid and "Ngòngèā"

[Bill97]

Interesting!

This is how I already work with my partner. She acts as a buffer and together we not only get to to bottom of things, we also come up with a way to solve the issue, avoiding direct confrontations.

Yes for some the honeymoon does last forever.


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[elektrified]

On 10/16/2019 at 8:21 PM, guzzi850m2 said:

Well the Thai doctors in my village are earning much more than that, looking at the cars they are driving and some of them owns 10+ houses.

Talking about hotel managers, not doctors. Of course doctors make 100-300,000 per month on up.

[canthai55]

3 hours ago, Bassosa said:

we also come up with a way to solve the issue, avoiding direct confrontations.

Best way to do it here.

Many never learn this most valuable lesson

Act in Haste, Repent at Leisure

[rumak]

21 hours ago, Ajvat37 said:

15k a month

you can't even get day labor for 500 baht a day  .   If anyone thinks 500 to 600 baht a day is going to attract an experienced and educated ,  not to mention honest and reliable manager for a business     good luck   NOTE:   i know the figure of 300 baht/day that many

posters think is what most thais will work for.   For that you might get someone who looks at their phone most of the time,  does as little as possible,  and leaves for another job or whatever as soon as they can.   Try going to Kamtieng mkt area for a day worker and offering them 300 baht for the day.   Be prepared to be laughed at

Edited October 18, 2019 by rumak

[Autonuaq]

On 10/16/2019 at 2:10 PM, Dante99 said:

You want an experienced manager who will be given authority and have responsibility you will need to pay.  You want something less, probably much less like Sally's "generic overseer" you can certainly pay less but undoubtedly have bigger problems.

 

You say it is a hell of a salary for a Thai, first time you mentioned Thai.  What do you know about salaries to make such a comment?  There are a lot of Thais making 50-100 thousand per month.  Has to be since they are making payments on a lot of expensive homes and vehicles, 25-30,000 in fixed monthly payments plus some kids in private schools or university will quickly double that.

There are also many thai that nake between the 50k and 300k per month.

And the thai are in need for more.

 

Manager is depdnong on what he really is

 

40k and on performance bonus is a good start for Chaing Mai.

 

Beside the fact you are speaking about a new hotel. Then the more you can save the easier all will go. You also can kick in a year bonus to make sure the manger will perform.

 

[moontang]

I know two ladies that manage different hotels in Hua Hin.  Both are successful hotels, both have been in the same position for years, neither make more than 30k.  Both do stuff on the side involving property sales and rentals, both are a bit lazy, and neither are totally trustworthy. In both cases the land their hotels are on would be worth a lot more without their hotels on it.  The Chinese keep rolling in, that greases the wheels.  It has nothing to do with their dedication, hard work, or attention to detail, but they are consistent. The cheap Burmese labor is critical. 

[Bill97]

I know two ladies that manage different hotels in Hua Hin.  Both are successful hotels, both have been in the same position for years, neither make more than 30k.  Both do stuff on the side involving property sales and rentals, both are a bit lazy, and neither are totally trustworthy. In both cases the land their hotels are on would be worth a lot more without their hotels on it.  The Chinese keep rolling in, that greases the wheels.  It has nothing to do with their dedication, hard work, or attention to detail, but they are consistent. The cheap Burmese labor is critical. 

Wonderful to know how much to pay lazy dishonest managers. Your kind of prople, eh?



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[moe666]

I would believe depending on hotel and the owners maybe 25,000b a month. My wife is incharge of house keeping at a 126 room hotel here in CM she makes 14,000b a month they originally wanted to pay 10,000b a month but had no takers. She came in with 4 years experience running a couple of small hotel, a university degree, several other jobs as a teacher, sales, and logistics. The hotel she works in doesn't have much of a down season as they get a lot of government business and Thai tours during low season.

[Bezdomny]

My friend has a small hotel in Phuket. He employs only Burmese staff now, to much bad experience with Thais.

[elektrified]

On 10/18/2019 at 7:02 AM, rumak said:

you can't even get day labor for 500 baht a day  .   If anyone thinks 500 to 600 baht a day is going to attract an experienced and educated ,  not to mention honest and reliable manager for a business     good luck   NOTE:   i know the figure of 300 baht/day that many

posters think is what most thais will work for.   For that you might get someone who looks at their phone most of the time,  does as little as possible,  and leaves for another job or whatever as soon as they can.   Try going to Kamtieng mkt area for a day worker and offering them 300 baht for the day.   Be prepared to be laughed at

This is true. My wife told me that last week she went to the soi along Kamthieng market where all the laborers are, looking for 2 guys to clear one of her properties that is overgrown with jungle. She said that everyone who had some tools (trimmer, etc.) wanted 600+ (each) for the job, and guys with only a machete wanted 500 for 1/2 a day. Nobody was willing to work for less. Being as tight with money as she is, she wasn't prepared to pay 1200 for the job. She has yet to get the job done.

Edited October 24, 2019 by elektrified