Disagreement Over "want" Words In Thai

[my benny rai]

I had a good laugh last night. I was out with Thai friends and they asked why sometimes it was hard for native English speakers to explain their language when Thai friends asked them grammatical questions about English. I said, "OK... Tell me the difference between the three words for want and when to use them: เอา, อยาก and ต้องการ." This kept the conversation going for the next ten minutes. At first they did not know where to begin and then started disagreeing about when and how to use these three words. After a while, I had to step in and clarify that เอา (ow) seemed to be the most common in casual conversation and that เอา should be followed by a noun, i.e., something you want. อยาก (yahk) is used in conjunction with other verbs to express a wish or desire for something. This is also commonly used in conversation. ต้องการ (Dtonggahn) seems to be more formal and is followed by either a noun or verb to express a stronger need or desire.

Many of them had very different ideas about how to use these three different words. Some felt เอา (ow) was too informal and that ต้องการ (Dtonggahn) was the best to say whereas others said if you used ต้องการ (Dtonggahn) in conversation too much you sounded too pretentious.

Any thoughts?

[sutnyod]

Dtongan means "want"? Gosh, I had thought it means "need"...

[jdinasia]

Depends on how "aow" is used in a sentence.

My partner summed it up for me with "are you paying or not ...."

Aow ... for being me something etc

Yaak for something to buy / do etc .....

Pretty simplistic but it seems to encompass the normal usage

[meadish_sweetball]

Dtongan means "want"? Gosh, I had thought it means "need"...

It can mean both - and the difference between 'want' and 'need' in English is not 100% clear-cut either... more of a tendency ('need' is necessity, 'want' is will - but what you 'need' is not always objective, sometimes it is more a question of what you feel you need - i.e. the same as 'want').

อยาก and เอา can sound too demanding depending on the circumstances. In such cases, ต้องการ is a better option.

Depends on how "aow" is used in a sentence.

My partner summed it up for me with "are you paying or not ...."

Aow ... for being me something etc

Yaak for something to buy / do etc .....

Sounds vague. The main point to remember is that เอา 'aow' is used with nouns and อยาก 'yaak' is used with verbs.

*ผมอยากข้าวผัด is ungrammatical, but ผมเอาข้าวผัด is correct.

ผมต้องการข้าวผัด is also ok, but you would usually not use it when ordering (for which purpose เอา or ขอ work best, the latter being more polite).

ต้องการ 'tongkaan' can be used with both nouns and verbs.

-------

Apart from the above, เอา also is used as a grammatical word where the meaning of 'take' or 'want' is not so relevant to its usage.

Examples:

เดาเอา - to guess (take a guess)

กะเอา - to guesstimate

[jdinasia]

Dtongan means "want"? Gosh, I had thought it means "need"...

It can mean both - and the difference between 'want' and 'need' in English is not 100% clear-cut either... more of a tendency ('need' is necessity, 'want' is will - but what you 'need' is not always objective, sometimes it is more a question of what you feel you need - i.e. the same as 'want').

????? and ??? can sound too demanding depending on the circumstances. In such cases, ??????? is a better option.

Depends on how "aow" is used in a sentence.

My partner summed it up for me with "are you paying or not ...."

Aow ... for being me something etc

Yaak for something to buy / do etc .....

Sounds vague. The main point to remember is that ??? 'aow' is used with nouns and ????? 'yaak' is used with verbs.

*?????????????? is ungrammatical, but ???????????? is correct.

???????????????? is also ok, but you would usually not use it when ordering (for which purpose ??? or ?? work best, the latter being more polite).

??????? 'tongkaan' can be used with both nouns and verbs.

but you would not really say phom aow khaopat to a vendor .... ((then again a longer sentence is rarely used with vendors/waiters)) yak ja sue etc .....yak ja kin (with or without the ja depending on timeframe) I would think. Kinda depends on who you are speaking to. If you want a straw from the girl at 7-11 vs if you want a pack of cigarettes

[MiG16]

personally I would not use 'ao' to say I want something...'ao' but more to mean 'to take' something ... as in ao mai? (do you want to take something) and then you say 'ao' meaning yes I (will) take.

in that sense perhaps it is more used to mean 'yes'

'yaak' I would use to express a desire /wish

tongkarn more a need/necessity. (also a bit more demanding when you ask for something)

[meadish_sweetball]

but you would not really say phom aow khaopat to a vendor ....

Sure. I was talking about grammatical usage of the three terms in the OP, not situational usage which is context-dependent

Many Thais would skip the personal pronoun or use age-related ones when ordering off a street kitchen: เอาข้าวผัด ... or พี่เอาข้าวผัด ...

What you do as a farang is up to you of course.

I find being a little too polite often works well, especially when you're dealing with female vendors - it shows you have studied Thai formally and place importance on manners.

On the corner of the soi where I used to live, I was the only person the old lady at the corner restaurant would smile at. At everyone else she would be curt and rude - Thais and farang alike.

[kriswillems]

I would like to add : อย่ากได้

And I would like to make an attempt to translate these words:

- เอา means "to take".

In a (simple) restaurant you would say "I take coffee" when you've made your choice.

I take coffee: ผม เอา กาแฟ

- ต้องการ means "would like to have + noun" or "would like to + verb", when trying to be very polite.

At your the home of your boss you would say "I would like to have coffee", or "I would like to drink coffee".

I would like to have coffee: ผม ต้องการ กาแฟ

I would like to drink coffee: ผม ต้องการ ดื่ม กาแฟ

- ต้องการ means also "need to" or "need to have", but it's much less strong than "must" (which is ต้อง).

- อย่ากได้ means "want to have + noun"

At the home of your close friend you would say "I want to have coffee", when he asks you what you want to drink.

I want to have coffee: ผม อย่ากได้ กาแฟ

- อย่าก means "want + verb"

At the home of your close friend you would say "I want to drink a coffee", when he asks you what you want to drink.

I want to drink a coffee: ผม อย่าก ดื่ม กาแฟ

Edited March 26, 2007 by kriswillems

[p_brownstone]

Another more polite word to use when asking someone if they want something is “rab”, it does not actually mean "want", more like "receive".

For example you could ask a guest in your house, or someone you are taking to dinner, “rab cafe mai krap?”

It's more polite than an abrupt "do you want coffee".

Patrick

[Neeranam]

Another more polite word to use when asking someone if they want something is “rab”, it does not actually mean "want", more like "receive".

For example you could ask a guest in your house, or someone you are taking to dinner, “rab cafe mai krap?”

It's more polite than an abrupt "do you want coffee".

Patrick

if you used ต้องการ (Dtonggahn) in conversation too much you sounded too pretentious.

I'd agree with that. Regarding the 'rab cafe', I'd feel that I was showing off or being condescending if I said that. However I probably don't get the same kinds of guests as Mr Brownstone.

[BFD]

Can anyone type out 'rab' in Thai, so I have a better idea of pronunciation?

is it just: รำบ ?

Thanks,

BFD!

[MiG16]

รับ

[BFD]

Thanks, pal.

BFD!

[MiG16]

- อย่ากได้

- อย่าก

just want to point out the spelling of อยาก

hope you dont mind

cheers.

MiG

EDIT: to highlight the correct spelling

Edited March 27, 2007 by MiG16

[p_brownstone]

Another more polite word to use when asking someone if they want something is “rab”, it does not actually mean "want", more like "receive".

For example you could ask a guest in your house, or someone you are taking to dinner, “rab cafe mai krap?”

It's more polite than an abrupt "do you want coffee".

Patrick

if you used ต้องการ (Dtonggahn) in conversation too much you sounded too pretentious.

I'd agree with that. Regarding the 'rab cafe', I'd feel that I was showing off or being condescending if I said that. However I probably don't get the same kinds of guests as Mr Brownstone.

My Mother in Law used to really appreciate her super polite Luk Koey!

Patrick

[kriswillems]

- อย่ากได้

- อย่าก

just want to point out the spelling of อยาก

hope you dont mind

cheers.

MiG

EDIT: to highlight the correct spelling

Right!

I don't have a Thai keyboard here so I copied "อย่าก" from the text of meadish_meatball. I didn't check for mistakes. อ is a (silent) middle class consonant, ก at the end makes it a dead syllable, dead syllables without tone mark that start with a middle class consonant always have a low tone, no need to add a ่ (mai eek).

Thanks for the remark.

[MiG16]

Kris

i couldnt give you a full run of explanation like you just did....

just know when something is not quite right, then I can bring it to ppl's attention

[meadish_sweetball]

My mistake... My Thai spelling is growing worse from lack of practice.

[my benny rai]

My mistake... My Thai spelling is growing worse from lack of practice.

We all make mistakes so no big deal. Heck, I would guess quite a few people on this board would love to have the same level of Thai that you do.

I find that practicing to write Thai is valuable to the point where it helps me to remember how to say things. Yes, I usually can remember how to spell the words that I have practiced, but making mistakes are common, especially with the 4 different sounds for S, and the many different Ts, etc. Thankfully, when in doubt, there is always a dictionary close by.